low conversion rate after 1st dates

[vitor]

I also would recomend that you create some sexual tension, I like to take them dancing because it is very acceptable for me to be all over them where as sitting at a bar or coffee shop does not give you that same privelage.

Brother based on what you said you should be getting the 2nd and 3rd dates etc. It might just be the women you are picking/meeting.

My only worry is 1hr is hard to create sexual tension where a make out / feel up could occur. Do you wear suits to these dates? I normally wear designer jeans, and a nice untucked dress **** with nice leather shoes. Or I will wear a tight fancy shirt to show my muscles.

When you finally meet up what do you do? Here is a typical date for me

I will email the girl the day of at noon
Hey good looking, how are you doing? I made reservations at so and so for 8pm, I will be at the bar having a drink text me when you get there.
Vitor

She text me or calls me she is here, I pay my bar tab and walk up to her give her a hug and a kiss on the cheek, have a beer or glass of wine in hand.

We go to the table I go behind her and push her chair in, pretend to be a gentleman. When the waitress comes and does her little speel , speicals etc, I order a bottle of wine and set the night in motion. I never look at the menu and just chat with her until the waitress comes for our order. I set the mood by telling her we have been talking and havent even looked at the menu yet. Its real good if this happens twice. Eye contact is key here, getting that first glass of wine to loosen things up is also key. This sounds stupid but hopefully you are interested in what she is saying, and you are creating a vibe with her that you two have so much to talk about that nothing else matters.

(when she calls her girlfriends the next day to report about the date she will tell them how you were having such great conversation that it took forever t order and the waitress was getting pissed off )

( I know this sounds gay but before you two meet think of some funny and interesting things to talk about, and ask her about, its like rehearing for a job interview ) I talk about my interesting travels, and the people I meet. I can go on and on about South America and Europe.

My last date was in love with a special sauce, I asked the waitress if they had it and she said No. I then told her that it is very important that we have this sauce with our meal and could she ask the cooks to whip some up for us. When the food arrived guess what sauce was on out plates......

Eat / talk, find out what kind of desert she likes, order it and split it with her. Chocolate is sexual that is just a fact.

Check comes, just chill for a min, let her pretend offer to pay for half then pay. Tell her lets go have some fun, take her to a cool bar or club and go dancing. When you goto the bar or club it is very acceptable to hold her hand when walking through the crowd, you are creating a closeness here. I also try hard to sit next to a woman, rather than across from her. This is so I can put my arm around her, hold her hand, put my hand on her thigh etc. I can also point out crazy/weird people I see . Who doesnt love people watching.

If the mood is right I take her back to my place, if not I go in for some heavy making out. If I do not get a good solid wet sloppy kiss on this date she will never hear from me again. I am over 30 and making out and rubbing up on each other is what im expecting on a first date. By the 2nd no later then the third we better be getting naked together...


I think I just said a variety of dumb **** I do but it works for me and is what I would say is very typical..

 

[MikeEdward1973]

Women do not find your personality attractive. You are coming across as perfect, robotic and boring. I can see it in your posts.

Yeah, I've considered that too. Hurts to say it.

I mean, it's like the hardest thing to change.

 

[guru1000]

But - you're saying that speaking to them on the phone is a good disqualifier. Something like that would be invaluable, and would save me a lot of time.

What are you listening for on the phone that is telling you that meeting up would be a bad move?

You are looking for compatibility. If you cannot click on the phone, do not set the date.

During my "100 women a year" days, most women were disqualified in the initial phone convo. If her communication didn't sit right with me, NEXT. Low class, NEXT. Hoar, NEXT. Money hungry, NEXT! Masculine, NEXT! Competed, NEXT!

You get my point. I NEXTed three times as many girls as I met. I am too busy to waste time with women who do not fit the bill. My time is precious and I guard it carefully.

After all, in every interaction someone is qualifying while the other seeks approval. This framework starts at initial contact, whether email, phone or in person.

You choose them, not vice-versa. Naturally, this includes lots of disqualifying. The point is to build a mindset (frame) of testing and qualifying with your finger on the NEXT trigger. With 15 dates a month, you will find plenty of disqualifiers on the phone (previous to) saving you a ton of time.

This is another point. I wonder if I'm killing myself with the conversations that we're having. We'll spend 2 hours talking about everything. Music. Where we went to school. Friends/family. And they seem to really be into it.

I don't see much point in conversation, save that for the third week (post qualifying). During the first two weeks, you are testing for compatibility. What you do, where you went to school, your friends, family and house should not be topics of conversation. The focus is whether she will earn a second date with you.

And I do the basics well - 'kino' very successfully, get a lot of positive body-language response, and like I said, we often end it with making out.

Kino is to score, you are not there to score. Purpose of the date is to see if she earns a position in the harem.

But, there have been too many cases where I'll get an email a couple days later saying 'had a great time, just don't feel any connection,' etc.

So, what you're saying is that I'm spending too much time trying to be interesting, expressing interest in them, and not enough time qualifying. And whether that's done at a coffee shop or a bar, the venue doesn't matter.

It is not your job to be interesting or to express interest either, that's her duty. It is your job to make sure she doesn't know where your interest is and to understand you might not call her again.

Your look and finances are in order. The rest is child's play.

 

[Colossus]

Hey Colossus, you mentioned that you should never leave a voicemail. The thing is though, everybody's phone has caller ID, so I think it looks weak to call and then hang up. Especially if it shows you called a few times. What's wrong with leaving a brief, yet confident message? "Hey this is speakeasy, thought I'd give you call and see how you're doing, hit me up later, bye...*click*." What's wrong with that?

Well it depends on where you are with her and how intense her interest appears. I personally don't think it looks weak to see a number on the caller ID; chances are she knows it's you anyway. "Why did he call?" "Did he want to go out again?" Just the wondering can create a little mystery. If she's keen on you then she will call back. Usually.

This isn't that big of a deal, but if I only had one date with a chick, I would not leave a message. It has just been my personal experience that it's perceived as desperate. I've tried different methods of delivery; the ****y-funny, the short and sweet, and the detailed message. None of them yielded results that were superior to just calling, or sending a text. Keep in mind when I was doing the online thing I was dating women 23-30. Mike may be dating women a bit older, so expectations are a little different.

 

[Colossus]

Also, Mike, I dont think you're boring. But Guru made a good point--dont talk about everything under the sun on the first couple dates. The reason why is that you are trying to get a feel for her, not fill the space with idle convo. Furthermore, by telling her all the basics about your life---where you're from, what you do, where you live, grew up, hobbies, etc; she is more likely to pick some trivial thing about you and convince herself you are a weirdo. Remember what I said about girls getting sketched out so easily?? People have been shown to be pickier with online dating compared to conventional social dating. With conventional dating you are more likely to give someone the benefit of the doubt, but with online encounters all it takes is one thing you don't particularly like and you write them off. I caught myself doing this with chicks.

'Dating' is often awkward, and taxing. Personally I don't like it. It feels too much like a job interview, on both ends. But sometimes it's a necessary evil. On the plus side, it helps you develop selection skills and general game.

 

[MikeEdward1973]

Also, Mike, I dont think you're boring.

I appreciate that - I don't think I'm 'boring' per se, either.

But - to Don S's credit - there's no getting around the fact that I'm *extremely* left-brained. Numbers rule my world, to an extent that is hard for most people to understand.

It's hard to explain, but this makes it difficult for me to sometimes connect with women beyond an intellectual level.

 

[speakeasy]

You are looking for compatibility. If you cannot click on the phone, do not set the date.

How much time do you initially spend on the phone and what do you talk about and what do you avoid talking about?

 

[MikeEdward1973]

Originally Posted by guru1000

What you do, where you went to school, your friends, family and house should not be topics of conversation. The focus is whether she will earn a second date with you.

First date should go as follows:

What separates you from the pack?

How will you earn a second date?

I don't have much time here, what else do you have?

Guru - question: were you being literal when you said this? I mean, do you say - verbatim - "what separates you from the pack," etc.? Or were you speaking more figuratively?

I'm just wondering how you deliver that kind of message on a first date?

 

[Veridin]

Off the Internets, I'd be going for the lay on the first "date". Or better yet, don't do "dates" at all.

Even though Internet dating has become vastly more popular, NO ONE, and NO GIRL especially, has any expectation of meeting a "Mr. Right" or dateable mate, on the Internet.

So totally wrong. What decade do you live in?

1) She thinks you're "boyfriend material" and wants to lock you down, which she's likely NOT going to do on the second or third encounter. Why? Because, you're still "Internet-guy", as discussed above. She doesn't trust you enough to invest in you. So that's ruled out.

Did you have bad luck at a dating site?

First of all, stop looking at it like a DATE. Be CASUAL when you meet women you connected with online. Most women aren't looking to "date" online guys, because it requires an INVESTMENT.

Yes, they are.

 

[Jitterbug]

On the topic of being boring, if I had to do the same date (going to a bar, having a drink and talk-talk-talk) 15 times a month, I'd go nuts myself. Why don't you mix it up with some action dates?

Besides, who has time to go on 15 dates a month? Don't you have any hobby or things to do with friends? The women you date may not know this but they can probably sense the I-have-nothing-better-to-do-so-here-I-am vibe.

 

[MikeEdward1973]

Besides, who has time to go on 15 dates a month? Don't you have any hobby or things to do with friends?

There are 30 days in a month.

The women you date may not know this but they can probably sense the I-have-nothing-better-to-do-so-here-I-am vibe.

Probably not, as that isn't the case.

 

[MikeEdward1973]

I want to thank the folks that posted on this thread, particularly Colussus, Don S, Guru, and Squirrels.

The takeaway for me is:

- shorter dates, don't invest anywhere near so much time at first

- qualify, don't be qualified

- loosen up, be unfiltered, go off-road.

- be ambiguous/arcane/confident when parting & closing it out

Thanks folks.

To be honest, this whole dating, and the results, were making me crazy.

This thread made me feel much better, not just because it gave me a whole new perspective, but gave me a place to talk about it. Thanks again.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

for what it's worth

I played the online dating game full force a few years ago. First meets would only be off email, and only at starbucks, and only for an hour. I would say that in the email offering:

"lets meet at 2, but I gotta be someplace by 3:30" or whatever.

If they were up for a second date, they were usually up for sex. If you are only meeting for coffee, and you don't expect anything other than a conversation, (unless she offers to blow you in the bathroom) then it's really easy to get used to being the qualifier, and not the qualifiee.

It got to the point where I could disqualify them after about ten minutes, and get the fukk outta there.

Second dates were much more relaxed, and usually led to sex.

If you are in sales, just think of it as building your pipeline. the first coffee date is the opening funnel.

 

[guru1000]

Guru is a keyboard jockey with a 'guru complex'

I'm email spying on my EX

My Game Sucks With Young Women

God damn ****ing ***** **** ***** ***** sluts

How is the email spying coming along?

How much time do you initially spend on the phone and what do you talk about and what do you avoid talking about?

As long as you want, dating is not a 12 step program. If you control the frame, there are no rules other than following your own rules. I could have a conversation for 2 hours or 5 minutes with the same end result.

Pickup "artists" use negs and DHV's because they lack genuine value. Do you think a guy like Donald Trump cares or thinks about the length of time he stays on the phone nor does it change the outcome.

Initial phone usually takes 10-15 minutes (enough time to make a decision). This is to only to see if you want the initial date. Speak direct and to the point, you are simply looking for compatibility. Close with "Lets get together." If the conversation is forced, you are not compatible.

Guru - question: were you being literal when you said this? I mean, do you say - verbatim - "what separates you from the pack," etc.? Or were you speaking more figuratively?

I'm just wondering how you deliver that kind of message on a first date?

It's not what you say, it is how you say it. You can say anything with the correct delivery.

Whether you are the guy dating HB9's by the dozen or the guy chasing 6's and 7's, will appear in your mannerisms and delivery, and she will identify you within minutes.

Gift of Gab

 

[speakeasy]

Guys, I'd like to hear some examples of how you control the qualifying frame. How do you set it up so that you are qualifying her and that this is obvious to her?