Losing one's virginity

[perseverance]

My point is that a guy who has lost his V-plates to a prostitute but doesn't have "game" to get women is in the same position as a virgin who doesn't have "game". They're both going to fail in real life scenario's like at clubs and bars, or coffee shops ect!

I'm not against men using prostitutes like Jon did in Amsterdam and not everyone's experience with a prostitute will be a bad one, in fact many men tend to enjoy it, otherwise there would be no Red Light Districts or brothels. My point was that I think it would be more beneficial for a man to lose his V-plates either in a random hook up, casual date, or relationship where he has used "game". That's just my opinion and I would never encourage someone to use a prostitute, but I wouldn't stop them either. It seems to have done Jon the world of good.

 

[perseverance]

The majority of men have regrets because society, the media, religion, women etc make them feel ashamed of what they did. These outside influences place some sort of mystical, magical importance on "the first time" which I feel is the biggest pile of BS. I am not bothered about the majority opinion. Just because the majority of people think something (or feel regret in this context), doesn't make it right.

That's why I don't have any shame in what I did and it makes no difference to me that it was my first time, or that I f*cked a girl yet have never been on a date or kissed a girl before.

But would I go around telling everyone about it? No, not because I feel ashamed, it's because the majority of people have been brainwashed by the media and so won't understand where I'm coming from. People on this forum have been reasonable and understood my point of view though...I guess that's one of the many advantages of the internet anonymity and forums like these, where people think before judging. That's why I have no problem sharing my experience here.

It was semi-humorous but I do have a serious point.

This is relevant to the OP because like numerous virgins (including myself before my recent hooker experience in Amsterdam), the OP has a strong emotional attachment component as he's stated in the first post. This stemmed from intimacy issues and brainwashing about virginity by outside influences. I can't think of a better way to separate the raw animalistic side of sex from the unhealthy emotional attachment than to f*ck super hot hookers. You'll never look at an average girl in the same way again. It puts things into perspective, you truly realise sex/love isn't such a big deal.

Your eyes are open and you realise the lies that the media feeds you. It's like taking the red pill and waking up from the Matrix.

None of what you say is invalid at all Jon. You raise good points, valid points.

The reason why I wouldn't have sex with a prostitute is simple, I couldn't put my penis into a woman's vagina knowing that she has had hundreds, or thousands of penises inside her. The thought of it makes me sick, to me it's grubby. If other men enjoy sleeping with prostitutes and the prostitutes aren't victims of sex trafficking and it's all above board and legal, then I say more power to them.

Also I didn't need to sleep with a prostitute to know that sex and love isn't such a big deal. I learnt that by coming to this forum.

 

[JonJaper]

My point was that I think it would be more beneficial for a man to lose his V-plates either in a random hook up, casual date, or relationship where he has used "game". That's just my opinion and I would never encourage someone to use a prostitute, but I wouldn't stop them either. It seems to have done Jon the world of good.

If I waited to lose my virginity in a hookup, I'd still be a virgin because my confidence around women would be too low, as I feared rejection.

It's like learning to run before learning how to stand. Hookups are harder than hookers, to me it makes no sense trying the harder task before doing the easier one.

Sex with hookers is like the training wheels on a bike...no-strings-attached, no emotional bullsh*t, no games, no rejections, no c*ckblocking, no paying for expensive dinners. It's easy. 50 euros for a hooker in Amsterdam (around $70) is much cheaper than dinners, gifts, movie theater tickets and shopping trips with a girl and even then sex is not guaranteed, there's still a chance of rejection!!! What a rip-off!!

Having said that, I'm not advocating hookers long-term. You have to take the training wheels off the bike eventually.

Also I didn't need to sleep with a prostitute to know that sex and love isn't such a big deal. I learnt that by coming to this forum.

Don't get me wrong, sosuave is great with resources like the DJBible, Book of Pook etc that can be found nowhere else. But reading about sex/relationships, even when you understand it deeply and truly feel the central concepts in your bones, is no substitute to real sexual experience.

I'm sure the various authors of the online resources here ENCOURAGE us to go out and get real world experience instead of just reading their materials on sosuave.

 

[perseverance]

If I waited to lose my virginity in a hookup, I'd still be a virgin because my confidence around women would be too low, as I feared rejection.

It's like learning to run before learning how to stand. Hookups are harder than hookers, to me it makes no sense trying the harder task before doing the easier one.

Sex with hookers is like the training wheels on a bike...no-strings-attached, no emotional bullsh*t, no games, no rejections, no c*ckblocking, no paying for expensive dinners. It's easy. 50 euros for a hooker in Amsterdam (around $70) is much cheaper than dinners, gifts, movie theater tickets and shopping trips with a girl and even then sex is not guaranteed, there's still a chance of rejection!!! What a rip-off!!

Having said that, I'm not advocating hookers long-term. You have to take the training wheels off the bike eventually.

Have you been getting out there trying cold approaches, direct pick ups etc? Have you been putting the stuff you have read on here to use yet? Have you landed some casual dates or some random hook ups? If so, how's that gone for you?

 

[corrector]

My point is that a guy who has lost his V-plates to a prostitute but doesn't have "game" to get women is in the same position as a virgin who doesn't have "game". They're both going to fail in real life scenario's like at clubs and bars, or coffee shops ect!

The only "game" there really is, is a "number's game". It boils down to whether someone has more time, or more money in their hands, or if their time is valuable as money. If you've got more time than money then "game" makes sence since you may have to go through allot of rejection or numbers, if you've got allot of money, or simply prefer to spend money over the opportunity cost value of time used in "game", then JonJaper makes allot of sense. There has to be an economics of time factored in. Not everyone even likes going to a bar or seedy joint to look for a random hook-up anyway.

My point was that I think it would be more beneficial for a man to lose his V-plates either in a random hook up, casual date, or relationship where he has used "game". That's just my opinion and I would never encourage someone to use a prostitute, but I wouldn't stop them either. It seems to have done Jon the world of good.

Right, but again that's a huge investment of time. First you are on a learning curve, have to go through allot of numbers before you get a "yes". It could take a month or longer if you have bad or rusty game to go anywhere anyway.

Also JonJaper dominated a woman, not just have vanilla sex. So, to find a woman that's into that type of stuff on a random hook-up may even be more difficult since allot of women may be cold-fish or too vanilla.

 

[perseverance]

The only "game" there really is, is a "number's game". It boils down to whether someone has more time, or more money in their hands, or if their time is valuable as money. If you've got more time than money then "game" makes sence since you may have to go through allot of rejection or numbers, if you've got allot of money, or simply prefer to spend money over the opportunity cost value of time used in "game", then JonJaper makes allot of sense. There has to be an economics of time factored in. Not everyone even likes going to a bar or seedy joint to look for a random hook-up anyway.

Valid points. Also I used clubs and bars as an example. You can find a woman virtually anywhere, libraries, clothes shops, or through mutual friends.

Where do you usually meet women?

Right, but again that's a huge investment of time. First you are on a learning curve, have to go through allot of numbers before you get a "yes". It could take a month or longer if you have bad or rusty game to go anywhere anyway.

Very true. Why don't you post an alternative to what I have posted?

Also JonJaper dominated a woman, not just have vanilla sex. So, to find a woman that's into that type of stuff on a random hook-up may even be more difficult since allot of women may be cold-fish or too vanilla.

Then I am sure there are avenues where Jon can find allot of women who like allot of dominant action. I hear Soho is good for that sort of thing or if he gets her phone number give Lolly Badcock a phone call.

 

[JonJaper]

Have you been getting out there trying cold approaches, direct pick ups etc? Have you been putting the stuff you have read on here to use yet? Have you landed some casual dates or some random hook ups? If so, how's that gone for you?

No, because I'm still learning and still reading. I got over my sexual hang-ups and fear of rejection thanks to the hookers, but I know it's only the first step in self-improvement. It's allowed me to free my mind and start learning properly.

Remember, it's only been around 2 weeks since I f*cked those hookers, you know as well as I do that self-improvement is not a quick process. If I claimed to have read and understood everything useful on here in 2 weeks and started posting lay reports, you would know that it was pure BS.

 

[JonJaper]

...as a side note, I went out last night for a female friend's birthday last night. This was the first time I've gone to the club/bar scene after losing my virginity to hookers. I focused on having fun and enjoying myself, not on trying to hook up. Desperation was gone.

I felt that if I wanted to, I could go up to girls and talk to them, but none of them were hot, all 6s or below. The bar we went to had many middle-aged people and the girls were not hot. Funnily enough, when I focused on having fun, girls approached ME. It felt strange and unfamiliar, but good. Again, they weren't hot at all, they were all 6s or below aka grenades, (for those familiar with Jersey Shore) so I politely played along and danced with them for a minute or two before excusing myself. The worst part was when a fat girl tried to grind up on me haha.

The hottest girl there was an HB 8, she had a boyfriend (he wasn't at the bar lol) and we had a good conversation but I was unsure of how to hook up with a girl who has a bf, so I didn't bother trying. I didn't need to.

 

[corrector]

...as a side note, I went out last night for a female friend's birthday last night. The hottest girl there was an HB 8, she had a boyfriend (he wasn't at the bar lol) and we had a good conversation but I was unsure of how to hook up with a girl who has a bf, so I didn't bother trying. I didn't need to.

Did you ask the hookers if they were single? Seriously, some hookers have boyfriends. If it doesn't matter there, why would it matter here? At least this is a real girl. But, while we are at it, did you ask the hookers why they were doing what they were doing? Did you ask them if it was voluntary, if they came from another country and was a sex-slave, if they were molested as a kid, etc... ? So, I'm trying to reconcile, if it doesn't bother you that the women you had sex with in Amsterdam weren't potential victims of a sex trade, child molestation, extreme poverty, or something gone terrible wrong in their life and that you are one guy out of a string of thousands of guys that are gang-raping her and paying her money, then why would it bother you if a normal and healthy girl is willing to cheat on her boyfriend?

I mean, your philosophy amazes me. You enjoyed your time with the hookers because you did not go through layers of speculation of why the girl was doing what she was doing to pleasure you. You didn't ask her questions that could spoil the fun or get her angry enough to kick you out of the place...you just went along and enjoyed the ride? But now, you are worried if a girl has a boyfriend?

Lots of guys here say it's better to get laid with girls with bf and married women because they already have a man and they don't get too attached to you and it's more of a real hook-up than someone who is single.

If you are hedonist and out for pleasure, why should you care if a girl has a boyfriend? Isn't hedonism about maximizing your pleasure, especially if you can get away with it? Humour us. How can you employ this philosophy and worry about if a girl has an SO?

As long as you don't give an STD to the girl that she can pass to her boyfriend, and her boyfriend never finds out, then you are not subtracting from her boyfriend's pleasure of her if you subscribe to the view that pleasure is the only reality that you are basing your judgments on? Are you suggesting there are moral constraints to this philosophy beyond pleasure?

Also, if you don't take advantage of an opportunity, then another guy would anyway. What difference does it make if you, or another guy takes her? It is still her fault for cheating on her boyfriend, not yours.

 

[JonJaper]

I mean, your philosophy amazes me. You enjoyed your time with the hookers because you did not go through layers of speculation of why the girl was doing what she was doing to pleasure you. You didn't ask her questions that could spoil the fun or get her angry enough to kick you out of the place...you just went along and enjoyed the ride? But now, you are worried if a girl has a boyfriend?

...If you are hedonist and out for pleasure, why should you care if a girl has a boyfriend? Isn't hedonism about maximizing your pleasure, especially if you can get away with it? Humour us. How can you employ this philosophy and worry about if a girl has an SO?

With respect to the hookers in Amsterdam, I just f*cked them without asking about their personal lives. The most I asked about was which country they were from, what positions I could do with them, whether they could deepthroat my d*ck, if they were going to get fully naked and if they were going to use a rubber (they all did, but I had to be sure). In the Netherlands prostitution is legal, professional and well-regulated (there's even a prostitute's trade union which protects their rights) and the national culture is different...it's seen as normal and not shameful... so the chances of a woman being a victim of illegal sex-trafficking is probably the lowest in the world.

From a moral point of view, I didn't care that the girl in the bar had a boyfriend. I have no moral objection to hooking up with taken girls. I was thinking more from a seduction point of view. Girls with boyfriends are harder to seduce (LMR, the girl's guilt, she's afraid of an angry boyfriend, the girl not wanting to appear a sl*t in front of her friends at the bar etc), I felt like I didn't know how to seduce a girl with a boyfriend, lack of technique and experience in handling such a situation is what stopped me being successful. BUT I wasn't afraid of screwing up or getting rejected like I used to be back in my virgin days.

Remember, I'm still learning. I've finished Neil Strauss's 'The Game' and seen the flaws of PUAs compared to Don Juans...I'm about 1/4 of the way through the Book of Pook, haven't touched the DJBible yet, or David DeAngelo's 'Double Your Dating' etc. Once I learn how to handle girls with bfs, I would not mind hooking up with such girls.

Believe me, if I could, I would have LOL! She was the hottest one there, an HB8 (aka hot but not mind-blowingly beautiful like a 9 or a 10) so she had some value. I would give her my time of talking to her and trying to hookup in one evening, but I'm not going to climb mountains, jump through fire and slay lions for her though LOL. I'm too valuable for that and I've f*cked hotter girls than this broad anyways.