Looks

[BaronOfHair]

I'm still waiting for someone to produce an example of widely read "PUA"/men's self-development literature which explicitly DENIES the advantages your physical appearance can give you. There's a big difference between saying

"Not being a GQ cover boy isn't an insurmountable obstacle"

Vs

"Don't bother so much as freshening up before you walk past your front door... Techniques are all you need"

I've honestly never read or heard anyone make the later claim. That's to say nothing of what prompts us to pretend that this subject is anything esoteric to grasp... We all readily accept that our chances of being hired by a well-paying company, and/or getting first-rate service at a restaurant are much higher, if we resist the urge to look and speak like male equivalents of Otsshia and Cornbread

I remain baffled as to why we persist in believing that dating and mating will be any different

 

[Bigpapa]

I'm still waiting for someone to produce an example of widely read "PUA"/men's self-development literature which explicitly DENIES the advantages your physical appearance can give you. There's a big difference between saying

"Not being a GQ cover boy isn't an insurmountable obstacle"

Vs

"Don't bother so much as freshening up before you walk past your front door... Techniques are all you need"

I've honestly never read or heard anyone make the later claim

You also need to play in your league

 

[BaronOfHair]

You also need to play in your league

Well, there's truth to that one, albeit not in the sense that those who so often invoke it mean: Those who refuse to put in even an ounce of effort into themselves, preferably on a daily basis, are well-advised to expect nothing but table scraps

 

[zekko]

"Don't bother so much as freshening up before you walk past your front door... Techniques are all you need"

I've honestly never read or heard anyone make the later claim.

I haven't heard this either. But I've always thought of "looks" as being your sort of genetic profile of what you have to work with. That is aside from basic hygiene and style. Your looks will give you a baseline, or a ceiling, or a potential, of how well you can make yourself physically attractive. That's the way I view it, anyway.

And the basic grooming and hygiene aspect is important too, because not only does a lack of that show a lack of respect for yourself on the most basic level, it can be downright disgusting and/or filthy. And women don't generally go for "disgusting".

 

[BaronOfHair]

I haven't heard this either. But I've always thought of "looks" as being your sort of genetic profile of what you have to work with. That is aside from basic hygiene and style. Your looks will give you a baseline, or a ceiling, or a potential, of how well you can make yourself physically attractive. That's the way I view it, anyway

And, in most respects anyway, it's easier for us to become more handsome than it is for gals who fall our of the poonany with Heather Mattarzo's countenance to become beautiful. One example:

Jeremy Allen White(aka. Lip Gallagher on Shameless)built himself up physically, which in turn led to stronger jawline. He's modeling for Calvin Klein now, AND portraying Springsteen during the height of his panty dropper stage

 

[characternote]

"Don't bother so much as freshening up before you walk past your front door... Techniques are all you need" - i've honestly never read or heard anyone make (that) claim.

There are certainly people on places like 'skilledseducer' and even some 'coaches' on reddit(seddit) who more or less say that. (e.g if you know 'game', or their particular brand of game', then nothing else matters at all. Because 'girls aren't visual' etc)

 

[Bigpapa]

[

There are certainly people on places like 'skilledseducer' and even some 'coaches' on reddit(seddit) who more or less say that. (e.g if you know 'game', or their particular brand of game', then nothing else matters at all. Because 'girls aren't visual' etc)

Some girls, who are more status conscious, whom also tend to be on the attractive side of the spectrum … can easily disqualify you for proposing to go to a place that does not look like a place where people with status would at least try out

In the places you mentioned they also tend to water down the status side of things too, not only fundamentals

 

[Gamisch]

1. Criminality, rule breaking, social deviance, thrills.
2. Status.
3. Looks.

Women bypass looks for 1 and 2. Plenty of “beta” men are good looking.

Okay ,but yet you're picking crime as a number one drive while you first say "breaking, social deviance, thrills.".
A man can achieve those things/ inginte those feelings in women without necessarily doing crime.

In other words, even those women who do date those criminals will definitely also date many other types of men who inginte those feelings without being a criminal, but rather..boss, player, pretty boy, having aura , being rich or at least having enough money to flex, being fit.

Even the criminal gets played...

 

[Gamisch]

lol, funny how he says 'great seducer' as if it was a 'skill' haha. The tall, young, handsome (probably jacked and rich) Brazilan man!
I'd love to take Robert Greene out with me tonight to hit on 19 year olds. See if all of his game and female nature knowledge means he'll hook up with some or whether, as would undoubtably be the case, he'd have zero chance lol. Same goes for other 'writers'. Dan Bacon for example.

I used to want my ex wingman who was a chad slayer to start some sort of 'PUA' channel on youtube or something with infields etc. As I always realised how dumb and desperate people are who would have easily been convinced that his success was nothing to do with his looks. We could have cornered the market as his success was WAY better than anything any PUA coach has ever shown.

Unless he is an a-hole with a lotta money who knows what types of women to look for..he might AMOG you after all..

 

[Manure Spherian]

Okay ,but yet you're picking crime as a number one drive while you first say "breaking, social deviance, thrills.".
A man can achieve those things/ inginte those feelings in women without necessarily doing crime.

In other words, even those women who do date those criminals will definitely also date many other types of men who inginte those feelings without being a criminal, but rather..boss, player, pretty boy, having aura , being rich or at least having enough money to flex, being fit.

Even the criminal gets played...

Well yeah.

My point was that women bypass good looking men for those types.

 

[Gamisch]

Well yeah.

My point was that women bypass good looking men for those types.

Okay. I feel.like you put emphasis on the criminal more than other things.

I'd even say that looks don't matter that much when status is involved. A man can be a "5" looks wise, but his status / money can lift him up to get the results of an " 8".

Simultaneously the 8 will be flabbergasted when he learns that a seemingly worst looking man snatched away his woman...

 

[Manure Spherian]

Okay. I feel.like you put emphasis on the criminal more than other things.

I'd even say that looks don't matter that much when status is involved. A man can be a "5" looks wise, but his status / money can lift him up to get the results of an " 8".

Simultaneously the 8 will be flabbergasted when he learns that a seemingly worst looking man snatched away his woman...

Correct.

 

[jhonny9546]

How many have you met?

Men? Here in Italy most of fathers are like this.

we all should be surprised when we encounter healthy people, not be surprised when we see damaged ones or how deep their damage is

Living with these kinds of people around you means you'll be like them too.

Unfortunately, if they're the majority, then we're screwed.

That's why healthy people lose out.

 

[characternote]

maybe that's where the disconnect is happening

I don't think anybody, even the hardcore 'lookism' crowd would deny that if you are mega famous or whatever, then you can get away with being ugly.

But I think the reason that isn't really talked about, or is even disputed, it because none of us are gonna have drake fame lol. Or be bill gates rich.

Most guys just wanna go out, approach really hot girls in bars or on the streets or whateve, and have a good chance of getting her in bed. And they don't hang around any famous NFL players or whatever. The guys they see doing very well are just good looking dudes

But of course a famous rapper or rockstar or nfl player etc could clean up even if he was chopped


(I also never much liked the idea of getting girls through being rich personally. I always thought if the idea is to work hard being rich and then being able to bang hot girls due to having money, why not just use hookers?! In Europe you can bang very pretty 18 year old Polish/romanian girls for like 100 euros lol. Fill your boots!! Don't need much money doing that haha)

 

[justaroundthecorner]

Continued.

These “only sixes” got access to a celebrities.

My wife is more attractive than Clooney's wife.

Clooney fckdp up.

He had his whole life to pick the best looking smart & nice chick for his wife or wives and there were millions of incredibly attractive women that were interested in him a guy like me could only dream of and he even dated some sexy women (Kelly Preston, Krista Allen, last really hot woman he dated was Elisabetta Canalis but it was 15 years ago) but he also had this streak of dating weird looking types and his wife is in this section for sure.

Guy ended as a trophy husband for 6/10 female lawyer. Yawn. What a waste of Ultra-status he had.

Btw. 50 - this is a magic date after which looks factor of even good looking high SMV guys starts to loose its effect. Its connected with worsening health, strenght, inability to conduct life in a way young people are doing (sleeping few hours, partying a lot), a lot of guys at this age struggle with various issues which make them incompatible with young sexy females.

 

[Manure Spherian]

My wife is more attractive than Clooney's wife.

Clooney fckdp up.

He had his whole life to pick the best looking smart & nice chick for his wife or wives and there were millions of incredibly attractive women that were interested in him a guy like me could only dream of and he even dated some sexy women (Kelly Preston, Krista Allen, last really hot woman he dated was Elisabetta Canalis but it was 15 years ago) but he also had this streak of dating weird looking types and his wife is in this section for sure.

Guy ended as a trophy husband for 6/10 female lawyer. Yawn. What a waste of Ultra-status he had.

Btw. 50 - this is a magic date after which looks factor of even good looking high SMV guys starts to loose its effect. Its connected with worsening health, strenght, inability to conduct life in a way young people are doing (sleeping few hours, partying a lot), a lot of guys at this age struggle with various issues which make them incompatible with young sexy females.

My point was that women who are “only sixes” have plenty of sexual leverage, and despite this, a chunk of them go for criminals and scum and even high-status old geezers as you mention here, and overlook good-looking men.

That has been my point in this thread despite me understanding your points.

 

[justaroundthecorner]

My point was that women who are “only sixes” have plenty of sexual leverage, and despite this, a chunk of them go for criminals and scum and even high-status old geezers as you mention here, and overlook good-looking men.

That has been my point in this thread despite me understanding your points.

I'm not saying you are wrong either, I see what you are implying and I do agree to some extent - I just wanted to add that female lawyers are often mentally quite predatory and w/o moral regrets (female professional lawyers going sexually after their clients/convicts is like some niche of dating - I read about at least dozen of such cases) however...

... everytime I think about George Clooney... man that guy was considered 12/10 by women - every woman I asked in my life "tell me your top 3 most handsome actors you can think of" or even "tell me about top 3 most handsome celebrities you can think of" and in 95% of cases Clooney was in top 3 and almost always was mentioned by woman as either no.1 or no.2 - and the guy marries only above average looking woman (his first wife was DEFINITELY a 6/10) - I have no idea, none whatsoever what was the point - I'd go after top SMV (10 in looks, at least 8 in mindset, 10 in status) women only myself if I were him.

 

[Prepostereax]

I have no idea, none whatsoever what was the point - I'd go after top SMV (10 in looks, at least 8 in mindset, 10 in status) women only myself if I were him

Most of the "Chad's" I'm acquainted with irl, ie guys who could be models, end up with women who are only above average ("7" say).
I kinda get why, because most truly hot women are pains in the ass, and "above average" is attractive enough
..but a female lawyer, of any level of hotness or lack thereof, has to be the very definition of a pain in the ass ¯\_㋡_/¯

 

[Manure Spherian]

... everytime I think about George Clooney... man that guy was considered 12/10 by women - every woman I asked in my life "tell me your top 3 most handsome actors you can think of" or even "tell me about top 3 most handsome celebrities you can think of" and in 95% of cases Clooney was in top 3 and almost always was mentioned by woman as either no.1 or no.2 - and the guy marries only above average looking woman (his first wife was DEFINITELY a 6/10) - I have no idea, none whatsoever what was the point - I'd go after top SMV (10 in looks, at least 8 in mindset, 10 in status) women only myself if I were him.

Several very handsome and popular men I grew up around, a little older than me, married early to Plane Janes. Some attractive guys don’t want the possible BS of a possibly narcissistic very pretty woman.

 

[Manure Spherian]

female professional lawyers

Female lawyer, just the term, turns me off.