Looks: women do care or don't they?

[sambwoy]

In spite of things I'm told about how they place less importance on looks, I'd say they matter to many of both genders, but I think they come at it from a different angle.

And perhaps, to a few they are not an issue at all because they aren't 'sheeple' who read the celeb magazines, and are therefore possibly better adjusted to life.

They seem particularly critical of the looks of other women, never mind men- how they dress, their shoes, 'bingo wings', 'split ends' etc- in arenas of daily life where they shouldn't matter, no matter how trivial. There are those moments in life where I am meant to converge with these females, job related or whatever, and I can't stand it. Despite our society revering them and worshipping them, and strongly enforcing equality, as far as 'ethical alrightness' is concerned, it's just such a cheap thing to do.

It's like they've lost it. It's rather like when comedians/celebrities who were once sharp and unique just got so derivative with age.

So what do you think happens when a guy's looks are concerned?
Any thoughts?

 

[zekko]

I made a post recently saying that men aren't good at reading other men's physical attractiveness - because we aren't attracted to testosterone based changes, while women are. Similarly, I don't think women are very good at reading what women men find attractive. Have you ever heard a woman rave at how beautiful some hideous hosebeast looks? Sometimes my girlfriend will get jealous of some ugly girl, and I will think "wow, you really don't know my taste, do you?".

A man's "good looks" to some extent indicates that he would make healthy breeding stock/healthy offspring. So looks will always be a factor. It's just not as big a factor for a man to look good as it is for a woman. You can listen to all the PUA gurus, who will tell you why.

 

[Mike32ct]

As for women criticizing other women, that is correct. I know an overweight woman that several attractive female coworkers hated. The overweight woman was a good person, a hard worker, and she had a great personality. But she eventually had to transfer departments. Men and most women liked her. But a few more attractive women hated her and would start drama. I never understood that.

As for men's looks, yes, Zekko is on the right track. It's harder for us guys to understand why women find some guys attractive because physical dominance and/or testosterone is a factor.

Some guys might appear aesthetically unattractive to us, yet they attact women simply because they are big and/or their facial structure indicates a higher testosterone level or something like that.

Does a guy's looks matter less? I want to say that men's looks matter MORE. But it's such a hard thing to quantify. I mean if we can't accurately assess mens' looks, then how can we say that they matter less or more? If we aren't that good at judging their looks, how can we ever separate their looks from things like personality? We can't.

But at the end of the day, does it even matter if, on average, women care more or less about men's looks than vice versa? That doesn't help the average guy.

Ultimately, it's about YOUR looks. We do what we can with the looks we have. Whether the other guy is actually good looking or women want him for another reason, has nothing to do with us.

 

[VikingKing]

Initially yes of course, to an extant. After that it depends on your personality, and mindset because this is what she will be looking at on a deeper level. Your mindset will show in your mannerisms.

 

[sylvester the cat]

this is like asking if the colour of a car matters. when i go to buy a car i look at the whole picture not just one aspect:

the make and model
the age
the condition
miles per gallon i'll get out of it
speed
appeal
cost
comfort
excitement/fun
dependability
looks


all these factors are taken into consideration. it might be real looker but if it's going to break down every 5 minutes i'm not going to bother. then again it might be kind of old but really rare and if it's at the right price i might just give it a chance.

i'm pretty sure we do the same about the opposite sex, biological machinery as we are.

 

[zekko]

Does a guy's looks matter less? I want to say that men's looks matter MORE. But it's such a hard thing to quantify.

Mike, it's simply impossible that men's looks matter more, or even as much. Because when a man gauges his attraction to a woman, looks are ALL that matters. He might further filter her out by personality if he is looking for something long term, but the attraction is about the way she looks. He doesn't care what she does for a living, he doesn't care about her status, he doesn't care how many friends she has, how famous she is, or how much money she makes. He doesn't care if she is socially savvy. He doesn't give a rat's @ss about ANY of that.

But for woman, it's looks, money, power, status, game. Social proof - do other women want him? Is he confident, or is he nervous and awkward? His behavior, his body language, is he needy? Does he have a sexy job? Will other girls be jealous if she has him? All these things can come into play.

Looks comprise 100% of the attraction (or very nearly) for men. For women, looks are just a percentage, so it's simply impossible that a man's looks could matter as much as a woman's. It isn't possible.

Aside from that, looks are what women bring to the table. That's why she has makeup, 100 pairs of shoes, and messes with her hair for half an hour. Men are about action. If a man messed with his hair for a half an hour, he'd be ridiculed and looked upon as a pvssy. Everyone wants to see a naked woman. Does everyone want to see a naked man? Not so much. Looks are the woman's realm.

 

[IBreatheSpears]

when a man gauges his attraction to a woman, looks are ALL that matters

That's not quite true. Looks are definitely the most important factor, but I know I've spoken to hot girls that I decided weren't worth the effort to pursue, even for a ONS, because of a bad personality or lack of common interests.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

 

[Mike32ct]

Thanks Zekko. You present a sound argument.

I guess what led me "astray" and plenty of other men as well are the following:

1. Women appear to gossip more (and in more graphic detail) about men's looks than the reverse.

2. An ugly female can get laid way easier than an ugly male.

3. Women do most of the rejecting obviously. But a lot of it happens right away when she only knows your looks.

So even though you disagree with me, can you at least see why some guys might be led to believe that women are tougher judges of looks than men?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that women can give the IMPRESSION of being much tougher on looks at times. Maybe it's just a BS smokescreen of sorts, but I wanted to point it out.

No doubt that a lot of stuff women do misleads and confuses men lol. That's why we are here.

 

[Echoes]

Looks matter to women.

All else being equal (confidence, money, status, power, etc) who is the woman going to choose, the good looking guy or the fat slob?

 

[Jaylan]

Mike, it's simply impossible that men's looks matter more, or even as much. Because when a man gauges his attraction to a woman, looks are ALL that matters. He might further filter her out by personality if he is looking for something long term, but the attraction is about the way she looks. He doesn't care what she does for a living, he doesn't care about her status, he doesn't care how many friends she has, how famous she is, or how much money she makes. He doesn't care if she is socially savvy. He doesn't give a rat's @ss about ANY of that.

But for woman, it's looks, money, power, status, game. Social proof - do other women want him? Is he confident, or is he nervous and awkward? His behavior, his body language, is he needy? Does he have a sexy job? Will other girls be jealous if she has him? All these things can come into play.

Looks comprise 100% of the attraction (or very nearly) for men. For women, looks are just a percentage, so it's simply impossible that a man's looks could matter as much as a woman's. It isn't possible.

Aside from that, looks are what women bring to the table. That's why she has makeup, 100 pairs of shoes, and messes with her hair for half an hour. Men are about action. If a man messed with his hair for a half an hour, he'd be ridiculed and looked upon as a pvssy. Everyone wants to see a naked woman. Does everyone want to see a naked man? Not so much. Looks are the woman's realm.

I have to disagree on a few things.

When it comes to the short term, both men and women are primarily about looks in my view. I see how my good looking friends in great shape get women easily into them. And these dudes dont have much in the way of social proof or status. And the girls dont know a damn thing about their personality before they practically throw themselves at my buddy.

Now when it comes to a relationship, I believe both men and women consider a whole slew of things. Men arent just about looks when it comes to commitment, and we know that. Actually, there as some men and women who are dumb enough to make looks their prime motivation in dating someone, but their failure is on them. And heck, Id say when it comes to commitment many men (at least men here) consider a lot more things than women do before settling into a relationship.

And maybe this is the age gap here....but while guys dont need a half an hour to do their hair, more guys do take good care of their appearance nowadays. And depending on where youre going this can take some time. And plenty of women love to see a great looking man naked. Though I know Im in good shape, I still get amazed by how hot and bothered women get once they get me naked. I always get a few compliments, and them rubbing their hands all over telling me how Im in such good shape.

While looks arent everything, I do think men sometimes underestimate how visual women can be.

 

[IBreatheSpears]

I see how my good looking friends in great shape get women easily into them

You are inferring causation from correlation. Rather than them getting women just because they're good-looking, it's possible (likely, even) that they get them in part because they know they're good looking and this confidence pervades their behaviour.

these dudes dont have much in the way of social proof or status

It doesn't matter if they actually have those things, what matters is whether the girls think they do.

the girls dont know a damn thing about their personality before they practically throw themselves at my buddy.

Wrong. Go to a bar and look at everyone who's there, and make a judgement about them. Without even knowing (consciously) what to look for, you can look at people and say "He's confident", "He's shy", etc. and girls are usually better at this than men are.

I bet your buddy exudes confidence.

I always get a few compliments, and them rubbing their hands all over telling me how Im in such good shape.

Not to rain on your parade, because it's good that you're fit and I do think that women are more attracted to fit men, but I'm skinny (working on it) and I've experienced this.

With all that being said, yes, looks do matter to women, just not nearly as much as they do to men. It's much easier for an ugly guy to get a hot girl than it is for an ugly girl to get an alpha male. Of course, it depends on the girl, too. Some prefer androgynous men, though I think most prefer more masculine features.

 

[devilkingx2]

looks, height, money, etc. all matter to some extent, if you say these things don't matter you're being disengenuous but they're not be all end all(together they are pretty big, but seperately they're pretty small)

this is assuming you're atleast average in those areas of course

looks won't stop you from getting a girl unless you're going after supermodels or unless you look like the hunchback of notre dame,

money won't stop you unless you're too poor to afford anything not on the McDonald's dollar menu,

height won't stop you unless bilbo baggins calls you "shortstack", etc.

 

[zekko]

When it comes to the short term, both men and women are primarily about looks in my view. I see how my good looking friends in great shape get women easily into them. And these dudes dont have much in the way of social proof or status. And the girls dont know a damn thing about their personality before they practically throw themselves at my buddy.

Agreed, the shorter the term, the more likely it is to be about looks. I would never say that looks do not matter, that was definitely not what I was saying. Certainly to be a guy that girls randomly throw themselves at, you have to be good looking. It's not that women aren't visual, it's just that there's no where they are as visual as men.

For instance, in the short term, a girl is going to be more likely to notice and be impressed by what you are wearing, what kind of shoes you have on, what car you arrived in, who you are with, what you are doing, how you are behaving, etc. A guy most likely will not care about any of that, he will think "those are nice legs", "she has a pretty face", "look at those boobs",or whatever.

Now when it comes to a relationship, I believe both men and women consider a whole slew of things. Men arent just about looks when it comes to commitment, and we know that. Actually, there as some men and women who are dumb enough to make looks their prime motivation in dating someone, but their failure is on them. And heck, Id say when it comes to commitment many men (at least men here) consider a lot more things than women do before settling into a relationship.

When you are talking about commitment, then I think you are talking about screening and qualifying. You might see 10 hot girls and think "I'd like to bang every one of them". So the attraction is there.

But once you get to know them, then you are filtering them down by personality, morals, interests, or whatever is important to you as far as her being someone you would actually like to spend time with, or be in a LTR with (if you're interested in that sort of thing).

And maybe this is the age gap here....but while guys dont need a half an hour to do their hair, more guys do take good care of their appearance nowadays. And depending on where youre going this can take some time.

Again, it's a matter of degree. Metrosexuals get made fun of. I know a LOT of women who make fun of a guy if he just has product in his hair. They think a guy shouldn't spend a lot of time on his hair, that's a feminine trait. A guy should be neat, clean, and fit, but shouldn't be obsessing over every little blemish or misplaced hair. That's not masculine.

And plenty of women love to see a great looking man naked.

Again, it's a matter of degree. There are male strippers, but how much more in demand are female strippers? Generally speaking, both men and women can enjoy the "artistic" beauty of a nude female, but how many guys want to look at a naked guy? And it's clear that women are less interested in seeing a naked man than men are in seeing naked women. How many women get arrested for flashing?

So yes, looks are important to women. They just can't be as important to them as they are to men.

 

[Jaylan]

You are inferring causation from correlation. Rather than them getting women just because they're good-looking, it's possible (likely, even) that they get them in part because they know they're good looking and this confidence pervades their behaviour.

Not at all. I would have said this if that was my point. These guys behave like any other regular guy, and girls throw themselves at them just from seeing them.

It doesn't matter if they actually have those things, what matters is whether the girls think they do.

Girls dont think they do. Ive known some of these girls and heard them say they just wanted to get it in. One of my flings in college I shared a mutual friend with....I found out from a mutual friend that the minute she saw me at a party, she pegged me as the guy she wanted to take home because she thought I was hot. Thats it. Had nothing to do with status or personality.

She had it decided from when she saw me, and it was up to me to mess that up.

Wrong. Go to a bar and look at everyone who's there, and make a judgement about them. Without even knowing (consciously) what to look for, you can look at people and say "He's confident", "He's shy", etc. and girls are usually better at this than men are.

I bet your buddy exudes confidence.

Explain girls sending a guy friend up to my buddy in order to get my buddy to notice her. All she saw was him chilling on the beach...saw the body and face...and wanted a way to chat with him.

If its about confidence...explain that? I can offer up similar situations.

Not to rain on your parade, because it's good that you're fit and I do think that women are more attracted to fit men, but I'm skinny (working on it) and I've experienced this.

With all that being said, yes, looks do matter to women, just not nearly as much as they do to men. It's much easier for an ugly guy to get a hot girl than it is for an ugly girl to get an alpha male. Of course, it depends on the girl, too. Some prefer androgynous men, though I think most prefer more masculine features.

Lol dude, I doubt women react to your body the same way they react to mine. And this isnt me boasting or being arrogant. Its just that Ive heard more than a few women tell me theyve never been attracted to a guys body like they are to mine. Or how much different the urges she felt were with me compared to dudes who werent really in shape.

Like I said, not tooting my own horn...but lets not discount the effect a nice body can have on someones enjoyment of sex or attraction to a particular person.

And I always here dudes parroting some supposed "fact" that its easier for ugly dudes to bag hot chicks than ugly girls getting good looking dudes. Thats not true from what Ive seen. Ive seen plenty of good looking guys go for a butterface is she has a banging body.

Now when it comes to femininity, masculinity and androgyny...Id say a man or woman picks a different mixture of all that in a mate, depending on this own mixture of those traits. I usually see very feminine women with very masculine men...and more androgynous women with more androgynous men.

Lastly, like I said before....I dont feel looks are the end all be all....but I feel guys really underestimate their importance in attraction females. Im not a super great looking guy, but even I feel that dudes who arent the best looking or most masculine, tend to downplay the roles appearance has in attracting females.

Its cool if you disagree, but Im a strong believer. All I know is that once I grew my hair out and got on my fitness...the response I got from women increased greatly. And with regards to my gym buddy, it increased exponentially. You should see the way women look at him or some of the things they say.

 

[devilkingx2]

Mike, it's simply impossible that men's looks matter more, or even as much. Because when a man gauges his attraction to a woman, looks are ALL that matters. He might further filter her out by personality if he is looking for something long term, but the attraction is about the way she looks. He doesn't care what she does for a living, he doesn't care about her status, he doesn't care how many friends she has, how famous she is, or how much money she makes. He doesn't care if she is socially savvy. He doesn't give a rat's @ss about ANY of that.

...

Looks comprise 100% of the attraction (or very nearly) for men. For women, looks are just a percentage, so it's simply impossible that a man's looks could matter as much as a woman's. It isn't possible.

Now when it comes to a relationship, I believe both men and women consider a whole slew of things. Men arent just about looks when it comes to commitment, and we know that. Actually, there as some men and women who are dumb enough to make looks their prime motivation in dating someone, but their failure is on them.

on this subject I'm gonna agree with jaylan and not zekko, any man who thinks looks are all that matter or are the only major component of picking his woman is a complete and total idiot, even if he's only looking for an ONS there are still other considerations(what if she's obviously crazy despite being hot?)

 

[devilkingx2]

Generally speaking, both men and women can enjoy the "artistic" beauty of a nude female, but how many guys want to look at a naked guy? And it's clear that women are less interested in seeing a naked man than men are in seeing naked women. How many women get arrested for flashing?

women are pretty flexible with their sexuality, it's how you can get straight girls to do 3-ways or pay straight female porn stars to do lesbian scenes or all the straight girls who have/had lesbian experiences

meanwhile, apparently there are either 0 or near 0 bisexual men because sexuality in men is extremely rigid, we're all the way on one side or the other.

I think that's a pretty likely/logical/plausible explanation for the quoted paragraph.

oh and the flashing thing is basically, you know how porn is way more common to watch among guys than women? well flashing is basically live porn, that's why guys are way more into it.

 

[Mike32ct]

It is true that looks are more critical for short term hookups than relationships. No doubt. But, how many relationships start out as FWBs? How many couples are together today because in the beginning they just wanted to bhang? Plenty. So your looks are most certainly an important (but not the only) factor in finding a relationship too.

While the male body might not be considered as artistic as the female body, it is well known that males and females react very differently to a strip show. At a gentleman's club, the guys are usually fairly tame. At male strip show or (ch ip en d ale show), the women go absolutely NUTS.

 

[zekko]

While the male body might not be considered as artistic as the female body, it is well known that males and females react very differently to a strip show. At a gentleman's club, the guys are usually fairly tame. At male strip show or (ch ip en d ale show), the women go absolutely NUTS.

Yeah, but that's probably less about scantily clad male bodies and more about girls night out! Grrrrrls like to get wild and screeeeaaammm!

 

[Mike32ct]

Yeah, but that's probably less about scantily clad male bodies and more about girls night out! Grrrrrls like to get wild and screeeeaaammm!

Plus, as good looking as the guys are, part if it is the celebrity status they have by being on stage.

 

[Dgwizdal]

That's not quite true. Looks are definitely the most important factor, but I know I've spoken to hot girls that I decided weren't worth the effort to pursue, even for a ONS, because of a bad personality or lack of common interests.

Otherwise, I agree with you.

90% ons or initial attraction. 70% LTR