looks vs confidence?

[thebiglimp]

ok so i got rejected by this new girl for a second date. first one was over coffee after meeting online. she said it so many words that i wasn't confident enough when i asked her for a second date.

now i know she liked me visually, since i was complimented on my look earlier in the meet. we talked for 2 hrs. and i thought the vibe was good, too. but i was anxious the whole time and just being my socially awkward self the whole time.

my question is, if i was better looking, if i had more to say (that is, more intelligence to show) even with the same socially awkward delivery, would she have accepted me for a second date?

how important is confidence?

 

[thebiglimp]

i get the gist of why it is scientifically, something about social standing, but anybody care to explain in depth?

 

[zekko]

Women basically want a good looking guy with good body language.

I don't really think confidence is as important as it's made out to be, when it comes to attraction. You need confidence for YOURSELF, because you need to have the confidence to approach the girl, to talk to the girl, to be smooth with the girl, to kiss the girl, to escalate with the girl.

What your problem was, OP, was that you were nervous, anxious, and socially awkward. It's not so much that women are attracted by confidence, but they are repelled by nervousness and awkwardness. First off, if you are nervous and awkward, then it makes them feel nervous and awkward, which they don't like. If you relax and have fun, then she is more likely to relax and have fun.

Also, if you are nervous and afraid to talk to or be with a girl, what does it say about you? It says that you are afraid of her, basically. And women want men to be strong. Women look for strength in a man. They need a man who can be strong for them. How strong do you look if you are afraid to talk to a weak, defenseless chick? It's like in the movie Swingers, how can you be afraid of the bunny?

 

[Skyline]

Look at it this way:

Your looks got you the date but your lack of confidence prevented a second.

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Look at it this way:

Your looks got you the date but your lack of confidence prevented a second.

This.

 

[Trump]

ok so i got rejected by this new girl for a second date. first one was over coffee after meeting online. she said it so many words that i wasn't confident enough when i asked her for a second date.

BS. She didn't like you. Never believe what a woman says as whatever she says benefits her. Her saying you do not have confidence protects her. It has NOTHING to do with you.

now i know she liked me visually, since i was complimented on my look earlier in the meet. we talked for 2 hrs. and i thought the vibe was good, too. but i was anxious the whole time and just being my socially awkward self the whole time.

my question is, if i was better looking, if i had more to say (that is, more intelligence to show) even with the same socially awkward delivery, would she have accepted me for a second date?

how important is confidence?

First of all bro, 2 hours is way too long first date. Should be 45 - 1 hour max. Second, why were you so nervous? Did you want to have sex with her right there?

Seems like sex is the end and be all. If there is no chance of sex, the guy is as cool as a cucumber.

 

[thebiglimp]

really? do girls provide such spelled out reasons when they are simply not interested?

 

[RangerMIke]

i get the gist of why it is scientifically, something about social standing, but anybody care to explain in depth?

Okay... here it goes, the short version:

The reason why confidence is important is that it is an indicator of leadership and your ability to convince others to offer you things and collect resources. In the primative parts of a woman's brain, going back to caveman days. This is how it worked:

Looks were important because you want to mate with men that have high probililty of producing children that will survive, all the charateristics that a woman finds attractive in a man are indicators of strengh and fertility. Stong men (big muscles) are indicative of someone that can protect you and the children.

Confidence is important, because if you are not confident you will not be able to wield your strength to protect her, or influence others not to harm her or convince others to give things to her.

You can be the biggest strongest man around, but if you are not willing to leverage this strength, you might as well not have it. Lack of confidence indicates that you might likely back down from a fight.

It makes perfect sence (from the female mind) that she went out with you once because you looked good, but without confidence her lizard (primative) brain rejected you because of perception of a lack of confidence.

Truth is... now pay no attention NEVER to what a woman says... only what she does. She doesn't want to go out with you. Any reason she might give should be taken as meaningless. It doesn't really matter why, because her reasons are her's, having nothing really to do with you. Saying you were not confident enough puts the blame on you... don't let that b!tch do that to you. The truth is that at some point on your first date you did something or she learned something she didn't like.

I'm really not sure why she would bring this up unless you were asking her "why?". Not saying that you did this, but if you did then don't do this again. If a woman says no to an offer for a date, then just say "Ok another time then, talk to you later, Bye", then next her.

 

[Bayne05]

First thing you need to do is to lower your expectations with woman and save yourself the disappointment when you realize she's not into you. Secondly, don't be so attached! Yes you might really like the girl but you need to stay calm, don't reveal too much too soon...
Confidence is always important because it shows how comfortable you are with yourself and it makes it easier for her to connect with you, woman usually reflect on your behaviour, if you want her to be comfortable around you be comfortable around her. Looks can only take you so far when it comes to attracting woman but if she doesn't feel at ease with you, she's leaves...

 

[thebiglimp]

i have to dig this further because i keep getting rejected for the second date (3 times now within a month) and two of them left similar elaborate reason for it. one said i was too judgmental, and didn't seem like i was into her. (i wasn't)
this one says she doesn't see much future between us, i'm such an interesting person but doesn't believe myself, hopes i that i grow to see value in me... that's pretty much word for word. if there's a message between the lines, please let me know.

it's like i judge the first one so the second one judges me back like they're in league, wtf...

maybe it's something common that i told both of them which i shouldn't have? that is, my aspiration is to become a marijuana farmer. if they lived in los angeles they'd know that it's no dumb move.

but yeah, my confidence is also a big issue...

i'm pretty assertive around guys but with girls i turn 180. is the best practice just... practice? or u guys have a quicker way to overcome it? because these dates are getting way too consuming...

 

[Atom Smasher]

Here's how you overcome it:

Small talk throughout the day. Simply chat up both men and women alike with unimportant, pleasant small-talk. This will build social confidence far faster than any other technique I know of.

Doing this turned me from being socially awkward to being reasonably comfortable and confident in conversation.

 

[VladPatton]

Were you too self-deprecating? Don't ever belittle yourself or make jokes about how much you suck at something and are worthless. All this does is raise the Weakness Detector in her. In fact, don't talk about yourself at all, just give very little info. Pretend you're a spy on a new mission and if you tell this chick you'll get sniped through the window. It's retarded, but you just have to project a certain image.

Transparency gets you nowhere when first gaming a chick. Let that creep in slowly...you know...like her craziness will.

 

[thebiglimp]

yeah i was. told her about my past failures and whatnot. i don't have a filter and just blurp out whatever's related to the topic...

i really need a lot of work.

but what i wonder now is, do girls really spell out the issue if she was turned off by a guy's lack of confidence? i mean this girl was very eloquent about it but it's same as getting told 'sorry not interested because you're a coward' from a girl much more blunt...

 

[RangerMIke]

yeah i was. told her about my past failures and whatnot. i don't have a filter and just blurp out whatever's related to the topic...

That was it. A lot of times men feel the need to fill empty space with catter... when you run out of things to say, you just start talking about stuff that is on your mind... the stuff that rises to the surface is the stuff is usually the negative sh!t that hapens to us. At the end of the day, during happy hour... what do you talk about with your friends?... you talk about all the fvcked up sh!t that happened to you that day.. it makes you feel better getting it off your chest... this is what friends are for.... Women love this stuff from their friends... they hate it from men they want to fvck.

What they want from their sex partners is strength and control. You're the port in the storm, the anchor that keeps her from drifting off. If she doesn't think you are someone that she can cling to when sh!t goes bad in her life, she won't be interested.

At least you know the problem... this is good news, because there are too many men out there that never get this. The best thing you can do is have 3-4 SHORT humorous stories that you can work into a conversation... you should have these stories loaded up and ready to go. Pick out three funny things that happened in your life that puts you in the best possible light, anything from your childhood is good. Have a funny 'sports' related story since women always assume men like sports and it could come up, especially if it's a happy hour date in a sports bar. A funny work or school realted story.... a funny past relationship story... and a funny sex story. All stories should have some morale that highlights your male strengh charaterists and be a little (JUST a liitle) self-depreciation so it doesn't come off as bragging. The stories should be short because you don't want to do too much talking.... and should transition into her talking more. If there is dead space in the conversation, let her pick up the slack... it gets her to invest in the date which will mean that she likes it better.

but what i wonder now is, do girls really spell out the issue if she was turned off by a guy's lack of confidence? i mean this girl was very eloquent about it but it's same as getting told 'sorry not interested because you're a coward' from a girl much more blunt...

Not usually... unless you are foolish enough to ask. Usually women don't really know why they don't 'feel it' with a guy, they just know there is nothing there. It would be very odd for her to come out and say it's confidence... but women search the web for relationship advice... I'm sure she came across something that they are supposed to be attracted to confidence and it sounds like as good a reason. Especially since she can point to that and it really isn't her fault. You weren't 'confident' puts the blame on you rather than her.

 

[thebiglimp]

mike, thanks over and over again. they were self-deprecating, yes, but i kept the tone as light as possible since it was stuff that happened in my childhood, pretty much. but i guess context does matter much, too.

i never thought about having stories ready. will definitely use that for my next date :yes:

lastly, is vibe important? i mean should i come off as being interested in her, wanting to want her by putting out an eager vibe? i actually didn't care for her, since i get more of a beta male selection when it comes to matching up with women on dating sites so in fact none of the girls i've met through it has been appealing to me and i care not to hide this. it was so with the first girl who rejected me. but i still ask them for the second date because, hey, it's about what we need, right? so i gave off socially anxious nervous vibe+ i don't care for you vibe. no doubt the former vibe dominated her perception, but the latter was definitely there.

i also wonder if i was an alpha male, the i-don't-care-for-you vibe i give off would have any effect on their decision.

 

[RangerMIke]

i never thought about having stories ready. will definitely use that for my next date :yes:

One thing that the PUA gurus do, that I think is helpful for guys learning this stuff is rehersal and practice. Get your stories ready, go ahead and script them out... think about when you want to work these into your conversation. Tell the story to yourself... in the mirror, objectively critque how you are coming off. Better yet, if you have a female friend, practice on her... ask for honest feedback. Refine the stories and make them better. When you go on dates, go in with the mindset that you are trying to learn... DO NOT expect results because quite frankly if you are worried about how you are coming off you tend to ignore the signs she is giving you. PAY CLOSE attention to how she is responding when you talk... read her body language. If something works, then make a mental note that you should do this again next time. If it didn't make a mental note that you need to refine the story. Make changes, try again, if it didn't work, then refine again... practice, measure, refine. This is what you will read on this forum over and over again that the best way to get good with women is experience, but you will shorten the time you have to get success if you pay attention to how what you are doing effects her.

lastly, is vibe important? i mean should i come off as being interested in her, wanting to want her by putting out an eager vibe?

Vibe is important. She has to know that you are interested in having sex with her. Don't be overt about it, but this is a must. If a women doesn't think you want to fvck her, nothing is going to happen. Believe it or not, this indicates to the woman that she could control you at some level... this will actually make her more comfortable. In addition, this is how she expects a man to behave, when you don't act like this, she questions your masculinity. You should be a little eager... but you have to read her, if she isn't responding well to your flirting, then back off a little... let her get comfortable and try again. She has to know you want sex, but she also has to know that you are willing to respect boundries.... until she removes them. She is NOT going to just jump your bones... it is the man's job to recognize when she is ready and make it happen. But until you get that 'green' light, you have to keep trying without getting pushy or needy.

i actually didn't care for her, since i get more of a beta male selection when it comes to matching up with women on dating sites so in fact none of the girls i've met through it has been appealing to me and i care not to hide this. .

Good, being a little disinterested is okay. I don't use dating sites.. don't need them. The best way to meet women is to involve yourself with a group or interest and meet them there. I belong to a Tri-athelon club, French-American friendship club, chambers of commerce, and I take periodic self improvement classes like cooking, art... sh!t ... anything that strikes my fancy at the time, just pick up one of those free news letters you see at local coffee shops and find something... hell I even was invovled with a local theator group and was in a couple of plays locally... lost interest it this, but the chicks were great. You really won't have time for any of this if you are spending time trolling for chicks at a bar, or playing X-Box.

I don't have anything against dating web sites... I just like to see what I'm getting. I will approach ANY woman ANYWHERE if I am interested. Go up, say high, complement her on whatever it was that attracted you to her, be funny and charming, ask for her number. If she says shes taken, well then tell her the guy she's with is a lucky guy... smile and walk away. TRUST ME women love this! You're doing another bro' a favor, and the guy she's with is going to get some extra attention, because you've made her feel attractive and sexy. If she's interested, she'll give you her number.

IMO this is a whole lot better than some dating website.

 

[G_Govan]

I think Trump called it.

She gave you a "soft" rejection because she wasn't interested. When a chick likes you she will give you every opportunity to be successful, even after awkward moments where you may be struggling to keep a conversation flowing. You will usually see some effort on their part to improve the outcome.

Cold approaching women online or offline opens you up to being rejected more often because you have no way of knowing if they would've had any genuine initial interest prior to meeting up in person, no body language to read.

As someone else mentioned, don't ever expect a woman to tell you why she rejected you honestly. Not only do they purposefully lie but sometimes they can't actually explain it because it's more about how they "felt" and they aren't typically able to self-analyze enough to rationalize their own behavior, objectively. In fact, they avoid it like the plague.

 

[_sideways_]

I will read all the replies after i say mine....

I am the captain of the boat ur on. What i found works is to be ur natural BORING self.
You know ur aesthetics are good, seems like ur striving to be more intellectual...thats all you need bro.

Just be like you are when youre bored. In a sense....

Trust me. It took me yearz to just be my "boring" self with chickz and bingo....2nd dates were offered.

Imagine that, hardly any enthusiasm from my end...and they offer the next date.

Trust me.

 

[om1xr]

Trust me. It took me yearz to just be my "boring" self with chickz and bingo....2nd dates were offered.

Imagine that, hardly any enthusiasm from my end...and they offer the next date.

Trust me.

this is interesting. But the real reason is that when you are being as who you really are when interacting with women you are sending this messages subconsciously:

1. Your value is lower than mine. You should impress me if you want to see me again.

2. I don't seek your validation so I'm not going to chase you. initiate -> be good -> be gone -> be patient until they contact you. it works.

3. Your pvssy game is not going to work on me because i can get it elsewhere with better looking girls with more charming personalities (hard to find charming personality in a girl nowadays lol!). So the pvssy is offered because if she didn't offer it she will never get your attention again.

abundance mentality + IDGF attitude + above average looks = you will get more pvssy than you can handle.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Women basically want a good looking guy with good body language.

I don't really think confidence is as important as it's made out to be, when it comes to attraction. You need confidence for YOURSELF, because you need to have the confidence to approach the girl, to talk to the girl, to be smooth with the girl, to kiss the girl, to escalate with the girl.

What your problem was, OP, was that you were nervous, anxious, and socially awkward. It's not so much that women are attracted by confidence, but they are repelled by nervousness and awkwardness. First off, if you are nervous and awkward, then it makes them feel nervous and awkward, which they don't like. If you relax and have fun, then she is more likely to relax and have fun.

Also, if you are nervous and afraid to talk to or be with a girl, what does it say about you? It says that you are afraid of her, basically. And women want men to be strong. Women look for strength in a man. They need a man who can be strong for them. How strong do you look if you are afraid to talk to a weak, defenseless chick? It's like in the movie Swingers, how can you be afraid of the bunny?

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to zekko again."