Looks do matter on men

[Zarky]

This is the 10,000th time this thread has been posted. Congrats OP!

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

To anyone with the "dead horse" replies.

Game has been a "dead horse" for 20 years. It takes time and repetition to undue the PUA game seminar/book/CD/DVD brainwashing.

It is annoying, but so was all the focus on game not to long ago for 2 decades.

Balance is being restored in this period. Please have patience.

 

[Elephant]

Four things:

1) Masculine/Sexual: Women are attracted to men. The sexual masculine guys get girls. This explains those who brought up the point of average or worse looking guys with pretty much nothing going for them getting girls.

2) Status: The cool successful guy everyone likes isn't going to have a problem getting a date. Think back to high school, the stars on sports teams were surrounded by girls.

3) Humor/Fun: If a guy is funny or just generally fun to be around/ does fun stuff he is going to have a major leg up on your average nice guy. This alone with nothing else going for you will only get you so far.

4) Looks: Important, but definitely not the only thing that matters. Looks will give you plenty of opportunities as girls will want to get to know you. Girls will be happy to talk to you, make it obvious they are interested, and even approach you. However, it won't keep anyone if you don't have more going for you.

To the guy posting the online dating link: Looks are definitely much more important online as girls don't have much more to judge you on. Also, lots of girls online are just looking to hookup. Finally, he came on strong and sexual. He got good looks so it works for him where the other guy looks like a creep trying it.

Also, PUA stuff will only get you so far. Learn some basic social skills and stuff, but any further than than and your just learning tricks to fake it and maybe get a one night stand. Improving yourself is what really gets the results. Looks are an important aspect so improve what you can.

 

[NewAndImproved]

Heh, that online dating jpg is pretty funny. And there's some truth to it.

However, I'd like to suggest a 3rd variable at play. I took stats back in the day and this seems like a good example of Simpson's Paradox.

http://www.math.grinnell.edu/~mooret/reports/SimpsonExamples.pdf

Basically it's not the fact that the dude is good-looking that the line works, it's that from just a baseline impression (a picture with a dude that looks good... no homo), that line is CONGRUENT WITH HIS TYPE.

For all we know, the male-model guy is actually a chump and a virgin, but the image up there is of a guy that probably gets with a lot of women, is a player and probably an *******. Women know what they're getting into with a guy like that but they accept it anyway.

That line works simply because it's a line that a guy like that could/would use.

On the other hand, that geeky-looking dude's photo... It makes no sense for a dude like that to ever be using that line from a woman's perspective. Where's the confidence coming from? The swag? It just does jibe with what women think of when they see that photo.

But this is just online dating.

Out in the real world, if a woman sees guy in photo 2 walking down the street with swagger, they talk and he hits her with great game and THEN he uses that line, I can see it working just fine. Why? Well, it's congruent now, and even if the girl isn't used to a guy who looks like that acting like that, she's just met the exception to the rule.

I guess I basically just said again that looks matter but game helps equalize things.

 

[JdelaSilviera]

Yep Sure game works, I´ve used some tricks of seductiontuition and I was impressed with the effect. Someone who says game doesn´t work, or that´s just anillusion doesn´t know what he is talking about. Of course we all get nervous when the girl we like is talking with a good looking dude, so deep down we all know how powerful looks can be..

 

[floydb25]

To anyone with the "dead horse" replies.

Game has been a "dead horse" for 20 years. It takes time and repetition to undue the PUA game seminar/book/CD/DVD brainwashing.

It is annoying, but so was all the focus on game not to long ago for 2 decades.

Balance is being restored in this period. Please have patience.

Meh... Never got into the PUA nonsense, or heavily involved in "deep" game. The problem with PUA is that they claim looks DON'T matter, which is false. You can't take a scronny, below average looking nerd, and transform him into a ladies' man who bangs hotties with "game". They know this, but they need a market to sell to. Who better to target than desperate, lonely, unattractive men, and tell them they can land hotties without looks, and using all this "round-about" crap as evidence? **** PUA.

But I do believe that game is required to KEEP someone attracted AFTER having looks to initiate their interest. So, it's both. But you don't necessarily have to be innately "hot" to pull it off.

Speaking from personal experience... I've had women go crazy ape**** in the beginning - then pretty much lose ALL interest shortly after. Yes, the looks attracted them initially, and was required; they were infatuated, wanted sex, etc. So, I got in the door easily, sex was offered, and I was even given multiple chances to stop being such a *****. But since I had no game AT ALL, and was a girly-needy-sissy ***** - I couldn't keep any of them. And they literally wanted nothing to do with me once they found out how weak, insecure, whiny, and chump-like I was. **** was bad.

And again, this went both ways. Hotties who showed too much interest, revealed too much too soon, acted like stereotypical "nice girls", etc, weren't as appealing as those who presented a challenge, displayed strong value, had lives, were confident and assertive, etc.

This ties into the thread we were having about not being able to maintain interest - after the initial offer. A "high class" girl will have high standards beyond looks, and want the best of the best (as she perceives it to be). So, a good looking guy with no game won't be lasting very long vs the same guy with it. Or even someone below their level in looks (but not dramatically so).

I've seen and hung out with decent looking guys who fared much better than me - after the initial peak of interest. They were more social, out-going, assertive, sexual, charming, "fun", and approached a LOT of women. They also had a much higher perceived value and better "status". And they had solid game. And they weren't stuck up *******s with rediculously high standards. They mingled with all sorts of women everywhere.

And again, there are varying degrees of looks, and everyone has different tastes and standards. Someone who's hot in the face is near the same level as a well-built "attractive" guy with a great appearance. Then add in all those other things, and it's pretty much the same.

Again, that's the whole point of all this. Not everyone is created equal, there's different levels people are on, some are better off than others, etc blah etc. One might have to work harder, but that doesn't mean they can't be just as successful as someone with innate good looks. I've seen it happen.

And honestly, relying solely on looks can work against you. You might become lazy, stuck up, entitled, think everything is in the bag, women will approach you, and put no effort into anything - only to find people losing interest left and right, viewing you as an egotistical, conceited *******, treating you poorly, not respecting you, only wanting sex, etc.

I've had several instances where eveything was "in the bag" initially - only to be criticized and rejected shortly afterwards. It was like they were complimenting the looks, but thrashing everything else - because its all I had. And it didn't work. This was happening literally at the same time.

No matter where you are - nothing is easy, and there's always room for improvement. And you gotta be at the top of your game, and put effort into making things happen. You can't just sit back, act like a stuck up *******, and expect everything to fall onto your lap.

This is also why you gotta keep your ego at bay - no matter how much initial interest you receive. Yea, all these girls find you attractive, or whatever, but none of them are going to stick around if everything about you sucks ass, and you have no game or personality, and are boring and lame, and insecure and... You get the idea.

 

[\O/]

If you aren't immediately disqualified by a girl because of your looks, you can get in if your game is tight. And by game i don't mean tricks and techniques, but having great conversational skills, confidence, assertiveness and sexuality.

Looks will always be a variable, but it' only one of many. It's basically the only variable online, but not even close to being the most important one in live interactions.

Guys who claims looks are all that matters are usually boring, uninteresting guys. They have crappy personalities, so they think they must be ugly because no girls like them.

Having said that, you'll get a hell of a lot more opportunities to work your game if you are above average looking.

Whenever look-threads come up, i like to remind people of Sean Stephenson (Google him)
Whenever you feel sorry for yourself because you're not Brad Pitt, look and listen to this guy. He is one amazing individual and should inspire you to disregard any shortcomings you may have and count your lucky stars.

 

[evansblue]

I think it's important to understand the context in which this looks debate arises. If it's girls you know through a social circle where you all hang out and have the same friends, and they get to know your personality, looks aren't as likely to be the determining factor. Girls don't like being alone, and a lot of them will date guys in their circle to stay relevant, keep the gossip going, wait for something better, etc.

Now when it comes to "pickup", that's a different story. Approaching girls in bars, clubs, malls... you are going OUTSIDE your social circle. These girls don't know you from a hole in the wall, and pretty much rely on your looks as an indicator. It's not that they only care about the looks, it's just there's not much else for them to go on.

Social circle game and Pickup game are apples and oranges.

It's really that simple.

 

[zekko]

I think that the key point on this thread was shown by Down Low.... I really think that is the real problem, you simply have more good looking guys than girls... in a group of 10 guys 2 are in top shape, 3 have cute faces, 2 have gorgeous eyes

I don't pretend to have any expertise on the subject, but this doesn't sound right to me. I've always thought that the bell curve for men was thickest in the middle - that most guys fell in the "average" range. I've always thought really exceptional looking men were rare.

Compare that to females, as long as a girl has a decent face and she isn't fat, she's going to be considered pretty. And a lot of men are going to be drawn to her, just by the natural visual reaction to her body and the way she looks.

Now if you have an exceptionally attractive male (which I think is rare), yeah women are going to be visually impacted by that guy's looks. But if you have an average looking guy (like most guys), she isn't going to get the visual charge out of looking at him, at least not the kind of charge that a guy is hardwired to get just by looking at her typical woman's body. He is going to have to push some of her attraction buttons in some way to get her to respond.

What has messed up the above is the obesity epidemic, which has hit women harder than men, since they naturally have more fat, less muscle, and lower metabolism than men. So in the west the attractive girl has become more in demand because the supply has been lowered.

 

[betheman]

...What has messed up the above is the obesity epidemic, which has hit women harder than men, since they naturally have more fat, less muscle, and lower metabolism than men. So in the west the attractive girl has become more in demand because the supply has been lowered.

absolutely

 

[saturnalia]

here is Elizabeth Egan Everett, Mysteries former long term girlfriend

http://elizabethegan.com/esoteric_a...2478_64368474702_744224702_2204604_2876_n.jpg

it`s not just they are in the same looks range, they look like each others mirrors, facial similarity is something that has been discovered long ago by science, when it came to mating choices in men

check out the couples from your fb friends if you don`t believe me

almost every couple is looksmatched and similar in facial features out there in the real world

looks do matter in the end

here are some research papers on it

http://alittlelab.stir.ac.uk/pubs/Burriss_11_assortsym_pspb.pdf

http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/ep02177194.pdf

pickup artist are just clever internet marketers selling you the stuff what you want to hear, this is why there are so many products out there, while in reality we have managed successfully to overpopulate this planet, without any seduction community

the reality is that women are hypergamous

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypergamy

https://venturebeat.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bill-and-melinda-gates14jan-740681-742416jpg.jpeg

all the money and status in the world can`t buy you a pretty woman`s love

neither does game

http://www.datingskillsreview.com/i...ery-erik-von-markovik-daughter-girlfriend.jpg

 

[floydb25]

I think it's important to understand the context in which this looks debate arises. If it's girls you know through a social circle where you all hang out and have the same friends, and they get to know your personality, looks aren't as likely to be the determining factor. Girls don't like being alone, and a lot of them will date guys in their circle to stay relevant, keep the gossip going, wait for something better, etc.

Now when it comes to "pickup", that's a different story. Approaching girls in bars, clubs, malls... you are going OUTSIDE your social circle. These girls don't know you from a hole in the wall, and pretty much rely on your looks as an indicator. It's not that they only care about the looks, it's just there's not much else for them to go on.

Social circle game and Pickup game are apples and oranges.

It's really that simple.

WORD... And exactly the point. Even if a girl approaches YOU - it doesn't mean anything is in the bag, or she's interested beyond your looks. It just means she finds you attractive enough to see if you're worth pursuing / having.

The initial attraction, and even first few dates / weeks means nothing. So, never rest on your laurels, and assume everything is smooth sailin' - just because you get approached, complimented on your looks, receive offers, etc. Even IF they think you're the best thing EVAR - that's just infatuation and fleeting emotions.

Once they actually get beyond the looks, and find out you suck at life - you're history. And this can happen instantly - once you don't match the perfect image they've created of you. They almost expect even MORE from you if you're good looking - due to the head in the clouds, fantasy image BS. And with "high class" *****es always expecting perfection - its damn near impossible to satisfy them. There's always something not right, or not good enough, or pout whine complain.

Again, looks only get you in the door, don't guarantee ****, and can work against you. You NEED other qualities, be at the top of your game, and can't just expect **** to happen because you're "omg so hot". And "high class" *****es aren't worth more than a quick bang - even if they find you attractive.

 

[saturnalia]

nature works on the following rules

1. change is constant
2. the strong shall prevail
3. simple works best

so take a good look at these pics, which guys are going to have it far easier with the ladies?

the avg afc`s

http://s18.postimage.org/b0utwqthl/avg_guys.png

or the hot looking guys?

http://s8.postimage.org/6rbv5ns45/hot_guys.png

for which one is a woman more likely to fall for?

which group of guys has women giving them positive feedback for years?

if a hot looking guy approaches a woman at a mall and spits out some lines, it`s congruent with him, he looks like a player and acts like a player

if a nerdy, ugly guy does the same, she`ll think he`s a sex offender and get creeped out

if you think that there`s any amount of game, that will compensate for your fat ass, acne ridden face, horrible hairstyle and sh*tty clothes, if you think all that it takes is confidence, I show you an ugly guy that has more confidence than any other player I have ever seen in my whole life

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ivFT6DiRjg

 

[BeDJ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ivFT6DiRjg

When going alpha goes wrong.

LOL @ 1:05

 

[floydb25]

Sat: You still don't get it, keep repeating the same ****, and aren't in line with the conversation at hand. You just keep saying ugly guys don't fare well, and "game" won't help them, and hot guys have it easier. NO ****. Nobody is disputing this - it's common sense.

But you obviously don't have any reading comprehension skills, are very simple-minded, think only in extremes (ie, hot vs ugly), and can't conversate for ****, so whatever. Keep spamming the same nonsense, and providing all this great evidence. :moon:

Assuming you're one of those bitter NG whiners, though: I can see why women don't like you, and I haven't even seen your pic. :nono:

 

[saturnalia]

every single guy, pua, non-pua, anti-pua and even the one that`s so old he has one foot in the grave agrees on the following

women lie and they are full with sh*t

they have agendas, the gurus have agendas, stop believing crap that they say, like your looks don`t matter, just be confident and yourself, it`s bollocks

http://i.imgur.com/6yJjL.jpg

 

[floydb25]

I'm starting to think you're a bot, a troll, OR a complete dumbass. It's like you can't grasp anything that's being said, stay on track with the conversation, and just keep spouting off the same nonsense - even though it has nothing to do with what anyone is talking about.

You ------------------------------ The Conversation

Maybe you have ADHD, as well.

Whatever. Not worth the time. And I still see why women hate you. Your conversational skills SUCK.

 

[saturnalia]

please check out this other screencap of a pof conversation

http://s9.postimage.org/72mxn1sb3/Easy_Number1_1.png

She didn`t want to give her number but because the "guy" was so hot, she did.

And I'm not saying this is illogical!!! Both men and women want the best looking person they can get. It's just that men are KNOWN for this. Women LIE and pretend looks don't matter.

"JUST BE CONFIDENT AND GIRLS WILL LOVE YOU".

BULL****.

Women want a masculine looking JOCK/MALE MODEL because biologically, mating with him will give her offspring the best chance of survival. It goes back to caveman days. A balding, short, short sighted guy would likely not have survived 10,000 years back. Whereas a Channing Tatum/Ben Afflec/Tyson Beckford looking guy would have.

80% of women are fighting for the attention of these jocks, so these jocks have no loyalty to them.

When they laugh at the 5'7 balding guy that approaches them, they know that he would be far more likely to be faithful, because he`s out of options but the women would rather take their chances with the good looking player guy.

Wealth is not distributed equally, so is with the pvssy and you know this yourself while browsing your ridiculously good looking buddies fb profile and seeing bunch of pics with them with hot girls

 

[floydb25]

Even though you don't understand the concept of responding: nothing you say is new. This is all known, has been repeated several times, and is a large part of what this place is about - to decipher the truth from the BS; understanding words vs actions; reading between the lines; not believing anything they say, or taking it at face value. And then overcoming all that ****, seeing the reality as it actually is, improving yourself, and going with what works; not giving a **** about rejections or shallow women; recognizing and not tolerating BS; etc.

What women say is different than what they respond to; hoes will deny being hoes; everyone says what is most appropriate, least shallow, and socially acceptable. They all want a caring nice guy who loves them forever; they don't care about looks; and sex isn't that important. Of course they're lying, and will jump on the first bad / pretty boy **** in a heartbeat.

This is all basic ****. Everyone knows this. Stop talking. Or just keep spamming the same ****, like a dumbass. :moon:

 

[saturnalia]

Even though you don't understand the concept of responding: nothing you say is new. This is all known, has been repeated several times, and is a large part of what this place is about - to decipher the truth from the BS; understanding words vs actions; reading between the lines; not believing anything they say, or taking it at face value. And then overcoming all that ****, seeing the reality as it actually is, improving yourself, and going with what works; not giving a **** about rejections or shallow women; recognizing and not tolerating BS; etc.

What women say is different than what they respond to; hoes will deny being hoes; everyone says what is most appropriate, least shallow, and socially acceptable. They all want a caring nice guy who loves them forever; they don't care about looks; and sex isn't that important. Of course they're lying, and will jump on the first bad / pretty boy **** in a heartbeat.

This is all basic ****. Everyone knows this. Stop talking. Or just keep spamming the same ****, like a dumbass. :moon:

and what should I respond to you about?

it`s clear that you used to believe that game mattered, that`s why you have such a high post count about it

you can`t accept the fact that your looks might hinder you, while it might help others, regardless of how much you would work your a$$ off for it, now you are all butthurt about the world not being fair and projecting your anger on me

if you`ve been blessed with this "common sense" knowledge for so long and knew that looks mattered so much, what have you done to enhance yourself since sept of 2011?

or you think that confidence is enough?

here I present you a guy that got balls and gives the world a clear message about it, than he`s surprised that others don`t like him

he`s confident beyond delusional, without looks, he should be your inner game guru

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ivFT6DiRjg