Looks and money matter. Don’t think otherwise

[Slowhandluke]

ultimately most men get a woman. While the journey that attractive men vs. average men take is different. The destination is the same.

Not this time arround. The average women are not attracting the average guys when they are younger. It's hurting the dating/mating dynamics. This is something new. Most guys will not get a woman... conversely, most women will not get a guy. Evolution have made average women attractive when they are young so they can capture the average, unkempt, "gross" guy. Once the attractiveness have gone, average guys don't really LTR the average woman. Just the way things work. Look at the thread about the rate of unmarried women within the next 5-10 years.

As someone who (excuse my hubris) is somewhat attractive, I never really understood the dating crises of the average man. Only recently, have I started to look into it... and it's terrible. It's a mess. We have always blamed the average man (be more succesful, make more money, look better, etc..etc..), but ultimately, it's not the average guys fault. Average men throughout history were average - they were not exceptional, they weren't very attractive - but they were able to have families; grew together as a team and help build society... Now, its not the case. We are telling the average man to be not average which is impossible. We should be focusing on the average woman and her unability to chose average men. Why should be asking ourselves why is that when in the past, she was. They were able to form loving relationships.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

If you have a good personality that attracts people then you will believe personality matters. If you get by on looks, money, status alone then you probably won't believe personality matters. How would you know?

It's my personality and ability to connect that is why I have had a second date with almost every woman I went out with .

This is really the crux of a lot of the debates here & elsewhere. Like The Blind Men & The Elephant. If someone finds (or perceives) success through personality, then personality is the key. If someone finds it through status. then that is the key. And it becomes difficult to comprehend the ‘success factor ‘ of others.

 

[The Duke]

This is really the crux of a lot of the debates here & elsewhere. Like The Blind Men & The Elephant. If someone finds (or perceives) success through personality, then personality is the key. If someone finds it through status. then that is the key. And it becomes difficult to comprehend the ‘success factor ‘ of others.

Yes, you see it play out all the time here. If people could only open their minds...

 

[Slowhandluke]

This is really the crux of a lot of the debates here & elsewhere. Like The Blind Men & The Elephant. If someone finds (or perceives) success through personality, then personality is the key. If someone finds it through status. then that is the key. And it becomes difficult to comprehend the ‘success factor ‘ of others.

Eschew that bs. Line people up. On side women the other side guys. Why aren't the average people pairing up? Status, wealth, personality, etc... It doesn't matter. What matter is how a certain man is in the social hiearchy when compared to another man; same with the woman. Remember almost every man now is 1000x "richer" than a man in the past century with respect to food, shelter, etc.. and also with respect to money. personality - that is a bell curve and I don't think that has changed much through the centuries. Things like how to firt, how to be social, etc. . doesn't really matter when it comes to mating because in a monogamous society; all that matters is average people pair up.

For example, if you think firting is the main skill to have to get a mate: you can teach an average men how to flirt... how to be social... etc.. However, no matter how good the average man is at flirting, the average woman will still chase after the top 10% of those men that can flirt better. You are telling the average man to chase the red queen. It cannot work.

Same with success. You can tell the average man that he needs to be more successful. Even as a whole, if the AVERAGE man does become successful, the AVERAGE woman will still not mate with him, because she is still looking that the top 10% of succesful guys. The bar has been moved for EVERY GUY. Its an unattainable position.. Just like telling kids fairy tales that good always triumps evil. It's not the truth.