(long) Why didn't she put out? And when/if she does, what the hell do I do???

[MrNiceGuy]

Well, I basically hooked up with that girl who I've posted about before. We knew each other vaguely at uni when I was a major AFC, a few months ago I met her again for the first time in a couple of years, we started hanging out alot and since I'm not such a big AFC anymore we became pretty close.

At the weekend in a club we finally got it together. After I kissed her, we talked about how we liked each other and decided we'd give a relationship a shot. Then she came back to mine, when we get into my room, she says "this is where I start to get shy" I gave her a hug and said "hey, its me, don't worry" We sat down on my bed and then she starts talking about how she won't have sex with me tonight, she wants too and she will eventually, just not tonight, she doesn't seem to really be able to explain so I just say its ok, and then we start making out again.
She does sleep in my bed with me, but with some pyjamas on, she goes to sleep with her arm on my chest but its gone pretty quick when she rolls away from me onto her side.

I sleep really badly since my hangover kicks in in the middle of the night, but when she wakes up she seems really distant, she's not affectionate at all, and one of the first things she says is "this is where my homing beacon kicks in, its what I do, I'm sorry, ask any of my friends" When she eventually wakes up properly she says about how she just wants to be in her own place and relax and have a bath and get some clean clothes, and if she stays here she'll just end up sleeping on and off all day, I tell her she doesnt' have to go, we can go sunbathe in the garden or something, and she stops and considers it for a while. but then says she has to go. but she wants me to know shes not having second thoughts, she really wants this to work, etc. We decided we'll meet up again later in the week. In a way I was glad she went since I was horrendously hungover and felt like sh*t but I'd have prefered her not to be so keen.
In the evening she calls me, we chat for a bit, and she says, I just wanted to see how you are and apologises for going again, eventually I say "ok I'll talk to you later, bye" she replies, "bye, I love you" I hang up. I care about her alot, but I don't love her, I think maybe I've learnt not to let people get too close to me since I've been hurt in the past. I dunno she's complained about how she doesn't like it when guys get really serious with her quickly and she said to me "don't go getting all heavy with me" but she's really insecure and needs lots of compliments and stuff. Still I've avoided saying I love her or anything, my talk to her has been how I like her alot and we've been getting on really well and I think its worth us giving it a shot, I warned her as well how I've been hurt in the past and it'll take me a while to really get close to her.

So what's her problem, I know she likes me alot, after we got together she told me about how she's been talking to all her friends and family about me, how she'd been trying to get us together some how, "why do you think I was calling/messaging you so much etc." The way she got me to make a move was by talking about all the different things she wants in a bf which were all blatantly things that we have together, so I stopped her said, "it's me isn't it?" and kissed her. A week ago she told me she loved me (which she did a couple of times after we hooked up too) , which I told one of my friends about, and the night where me and this girl hooked up he was really drunk and went up to her and said "you'd better not mess tom about, if you're telling him you love him, you'd better f*cking mean it" to which she replied by repeatedly assuring him that she loved me and so on.

I think maybe she's trying to change her behaviour not to sleep with people so quickly, before we got together she talked about how when she likes people she just sleeps with them quickly and she wants to change that. The think that worries me more is that she does love me, but she's not getting as much sexual attraction as she wants and she'll decide we're better as friends.


Now, the other problem, I'm still a virgin. She doesn't know this, but even though I never knew her that well till recently she knew me in my AFC days, and knows I've never had a serious relationship, so she may well suspect. She's very hot, had 2 serious relationships and plenty of less serious so shes reasonably experienced. That night I was really annoyed since I was drunk enough that I felt really relaxed about the idea we were gonna have sex and not worried or anxious at all, but I wasn't so drunk that I wouldn't have been able to get it up. In the past when I've started to come close to opportunities of losing my virginity I've got too nervous and missed the opportunity. Now that I'm sober again I'm pretty unsure about it all, I know from reading stuff what sort of things I ought to do, but having never done them it still seems pretty daunting.
Part of me is tempted to ask her to teach me somehow, basically I'm a blank canvas sexually so she can train me up to do all the stuff that turns her on.

 

[Desdinova]

we talked about how we liked each other and decided we'd give a relationship a shot.

You're not in any kind of a relationship with her yet, but you're doing "relationship talk"? This is one mistake. You can't jump into a LTR without having a STR. You cannot have a STR without dating.

she says "this is where I start to get shy" I gave her a hug and said "hey, its me, don't worry"

Aww, isn't that nice? The relationship has begun, and she's scared sh1tless.

Transitioning from friend into girlfriend is going to be awkward if it's done too fast. Have you ever been playful with her? Does she have fun when she's with you? If so, why stop it? Keep things fun and exciting and the transition will go much smoother.

We sat down on my bed and then she starts talking about how she won't have sex with me tonight,

That's because she still considers you a friend.

This woman needs to be dated before she makes the transition with you into any kind of relationship. Even SSers know this. It's just the way women work.

 

[Kitsune]

Here's what I get from this post:

she won't have sex with me tonight, she wants too and she will eventually,

Basically she's done some things in the past that she's not too proud of, perhaps losing her virginity to someone who meant a lot to her who then dumped her later (boo hoo, it happens a lot), sleeping with too many ppl and feeling slutty.

"hey, its me, don't worry"

"it's me isn't it?"

Classic blame transferrance, basically you're letting her off the hook with the fact that she has serious social issues by transferrig all of the fault onto you.

she goes to sleep with her arm on my chest but its gone pretty quick when she rolls away from me onto her side.

When she eventually wakes up properly she says about how she just wants to be in her own place and relax and have a bath and get some clean clothes

She's uncomfortable with your place, at her place, she feels safe and comfortable with the fact that it's her domain and she can let her hair down if she wants. She finds your place alien and perhaps a little offensive, not completely your fault.

I think maybe she's trying to change her behaviour not to sleep with people so quickly, before we got together she talked about how when she likes people she just sleeps with them quickly and she wants to change that.

This is the reason why. The more time she spends in your place, the more she will think that you will try to get her into bed and screw her. This is not your faulk! She's having seriously bad flashbacks and there's not much you can do about it.

She doesn't really love you, she says she does so that she can constantly reassure herself with the fact that she does love you, and in doing so, has convinced even herself that she really does love you.

Diagnosis: She has committment issues, I'd keep a distance from her and let her go through the motions. You also want to let her know that you're serious, and sometimes caring too much about a situation (and being meticulous) will only make it worse, because you'll be paying too much attention to detail and not enough to the big picture.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Thanks guys, I think the commitment issues probably hit the nail on the head here.. Just to clarify a few things though..

You're not in any kind of a relationship with her yet, but you're doing "relationship talk"?

It was her that brought up the whole relationship issue.. The first thing she said after I kissed her for the first time was "Whatever happens I want you to promise me if this doesn't work out we'll still be friends, I don't want to lose you" Then she starts talking about what she'd been saying about me to her family/friends etc. How I was everything she wanted out of a boyfriend and she thinks we should give it a shot. I just basically agreed, said I liked her alot and I thought it was worth finding out what would happen.

Classic blame transferrance

The "hey, it's me, don't worry" was meant as a reassuring, hey, its me the guy you know well who cares about you and isn't going to screw you around, not some random bloke you've not known for more than a day or two. Of course she may have read it the wrong way.

The second was when just before we got together she started saying how she'd been talking to her mum about the different things she wanted in a boyfriend, I could see she was trying to work towards making the connection between me and those things, and tell me how she liked me, so I just thought I'd grab the opportunity and save her the stress of waiting for my reaction, the "its me isn't it?" meant "you're trying to tell me I'm what you want aren't you?"

Transitioning from friend into girlfriend is going to be awkward if it's done too fast

This is spot on, she definitely didn't seem comfortable when she woke up. I also agree about waking up in an unfamiliar room..

She has committment issues

Yep, she's even said to me in the past about how one of her friends is convinced she has them since she often dates older/unstable/unsuitable guys who aren't gonna settle down. And of course her repeated complaints about guys who decide they're in love with her too quickly, but on the other hand when we're together she starts talking about how much she likes me and that she loves me.. So either I tell her I love her too and scare her off, or duck the issue (as I've benn trying to do most of the time) and leave her thinking I'm only interested in getting her in the sack (I'm not).. There's just no pleasing some people...

Other things, she wants me to go on holiday with her.. This is something we were thinking of doing as friends anyway (her idea) basically she knows someone with a free villa in spain, so we just need to pay for flights and food/drink, in theory we'll be going in 2 weeks. I mentioned it when she called me that evening (to apologise for running out), and we agreed to look up flights, she messaged today saying about some she'd found. So she seems to still want to do it....

This woman needs to be dated

Before we got together we were meeting up once or twice every week or two to do stuff, so basically we keep seeing each other at that frequency just have alot more flirting/kino and the odd kiss or two here and there? That seems to me the only difference between dating and what we were doing before.. I even remember saying to a friend a couple of weeks ago, "it feels like we're a couple, except we're not doing anything sexual"

You also want to let her know that you're serious, and sometimes caring too much about a situation (and being meticulous) will only make it worse

I presume you mean serious about her, but how do I let her know I'm serious about her without scaring her with commitment?

Basically, I can tell she's nervous about all this, so I'm not going to pressure her, she can call the shots about when we meet up and so on and I'm in no rush to get her into bed, But I want to let her know I do want this to work so she doesn't start thinking I'm not interested and give up, the trouble is how can I do that without giving her the commitment scares?

 

[Desdinova]

It was her that brought up the whole relationship issue.. The first thing she said after I kissed her for the first time was "Whatever happens I want you to promise me if this doesn't work out we'll still be friends, I don't want to lose you"

I hope you realize that if it didn't work out, the two of you would be best off not seeing each other again.

This is spot on, she definitely didn't seem comfortable when she woke up. I also agree about waking up in an unfamiliar room..

I don't agree with the "unfamiliar room" theory. Up until that night, you've had the label of "friend" for two years. She'll need to be warmed up a bit into this situation before you can fvck her. Don't be so anxious. Just have fun and continue to increase your sexuality toward her.

Before we got together we were meeting up once or twice every week or two to do stuff, so basically we keep seeing each other at that frequency just have alot more flirting/kino and the odd kiss or two here and there?

So the two of you had kissed before it was spoken of being "officially dating"? I would have considered it to be dating from the first kiss.

But I want to let her know I do want this to work so she doesn't start thinking I'm not interested and give up, the trouble is how can I do that without giving her the commitment scares?

That's why YOU call all the shots. She's already stated that she's interested, therefore you have the green light to set up dates. This, combined with kino will let her know that you're interested. Women read actions and respond to touch much better than anything you tell her. The relationship will progress naturally, just take small steps.

 

[Brainman]

$hit dude, I think we've been dating the same chick She about 5 foot 6, with the hair and the pretty eyes? Thought so!

That line about wanting to sleep with you and that it would eventually happen... But it doesn't, does it? All I can figure is that she is really turned on, really in the moment, but something in her head is telling her to stop. She probably doesn't understand it much better than you do. That's the sucky thing about the unconscious.

If you don't Next her, she'll Next you. In my similar situation, I held on for my dear life, when I should have just let go. I was afraid I would hurt her feelings. In the long run, I think mine were the only ones really hurt. But hey! This isn't about me

-BM, who says "good riddance"

 

[MrNiceGuy]

NEXT

NEXT

Well, actually she nexted me basically....

This morning she popped onto msn I asked her how she was, she said stressed.. and it was because of me basically.. I knew she was a bit of a commitment phobe anyway.. here are some choice lines from the convo..

She says:

I just feel that we're both getting wound up about this when we don't have to...why change what we have when I have a better relationship with you as a friend than I've had with any of my boyfriends

I say:

I think you just answered your own question there

she says:

Well there have been a couple of exceptions...

my favourite though is this....
She says:

I don't wish I hadn't kissed you because I kissed you to let you know how much I care about you

Well next time, just tell me you care about me, its alot less complicated.. women, bah...

I start off trying to persuade her that I'm nervous too, and we'll just move forward slowly, but she insisits shes not ready for this and its not making her happy and so on.. we chat for a bit longer and eventually I get to the root of the problem, as I knew she's horrendously insecure.. and with her last boyfriend she just went all in emotionally and opened up completely and it was good, but.. she got reliant on him for self confidence and faith in herself.. She seems to think that she needs to build up some self-esteem and so on by herself before she'll feel ready to open up emotionally to anyone again.. So if she started going out with me or anyone else she'd just start getting scared and run off after a few weeks..

We also came to the conclusion that we were more attracted to the idea of the two of us together rather than actually each other.. since we didn't have other people who we were so close to in our lives at the moment.

The good thing about all this.. if there is a good thing.. is that I've realised I'm no where near as cut up about all this as I would have been a few years ago. A few years ago I'd have been an emotional wreck, now I'm a little pissed off but not that bothered overall.. I don't know if our friendship will work out, I hope so, but I don't know, but I think I've kind of accepted she's not interested, time to look elsewhere..

 

[Maximus_Decimus]

Re: NEXT

Originally posted by MrNiceGuy
NEXT

my favourite though is this....
She says:

Well next time, just tell me you care about me, its alot less complicated.. women, bah...

I start off trying to persuade her that I'm nervous too, and we'll just move forward slowly, but she insisits shes not ready for this and its not making her happy and so on.. we chat for a bit longer and eventually I get to the root of the problem, as I knew she's horrendously insecure.. and with her last boyfriend she just went all in emotionally and opened up completely and it was good, but.. she got reliant on him for self confidence and faith in herself.. She seems to think that she needs to build up some self-esteem and so on by herself before she'll feel ready to open up emotionally to anyone again.. So if she started going out with me or anyone else she'd just start getting scared and run off after a few weeks..

Dude, let's hammer down a few points here. Probably everything she said above is BS. Over here in North America, we use the Brad Pitt test. Over there in the UK, substitute Brad Pitt with David Beckham. If this chick in question was with David Beckham that night, Beckham made moves on her, and she knew the only way she would ever see Beckham again was by giving him the f*ck of his life, do you think she would try her best to give him the best f*ck of his life? The past is the past ... you cannot go back. So learn this for the future:

1) Follow the advice I gave you (and Design's advice) in the other post for Last Minute Resistance (LMR). Do a search for LMR yourself and make sure you are prepared next time.

2) If reframes, freezeout, and Ryker's 3 rules don't work and she still gives you major resistance, do a takeaway and then walk the f*ck out!

3) Unless you are meeting other chicks through her, move on! Don't waste time being friends with her - she gets her daily dose of emotions from you and all you get to play with is d*ck ... that is, your own d*ck!

4) I guarantee you that if you managed to f*ck her that night, she wouldn't be coming up with all this BS on why she shouldn't be having a relationship with you, etc:

SexPDX wrote:
Before she has sex with you she may be very much attracted and you want to take advantage of that before her rational mind catches up with her emotion and comes up with some culturally conditioned bullsh1t she has bouncing around her head to convince herself why she shouldn't let you hurry up and fvck her brains out. Once you already have fvcked her, her unconscious mind is conditioned to use the rational mind to attract reasons to support why she gave it up in the first place. Don't spend any more time at the wrong side of this equation than you have to.

[url]http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=16824&perpage=20&highlight=fvck&pagenumber=1[/url]

Go read the following posts by XBlitz44 on why you should F*ck her ASAP: [url]http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?threadid=16824&perpage=20&highlight=fvck&pagenumber=1[/url]

And read MrSex4uNYC's commentary on Rocks and Gold:

MrSex4uNYC wrote:
R&G (Rocks and Gold) is NOT saying that chicks will f*ck you IF you do things for her. it is exactly the opposite. R&G is saying that if you do things for her, she has NO REASON to f*ck you! she is already getting everything SHE wants out of the relationship, so why should she sex you?

http://groups.google.ca/group/alt.s....seduction.fast&rnum=2&hl=en#979b2699e71ded72

Maximus_Decimus

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Thanks guys.. I think I've come to terms with it all anyway..

I finally think I deciphered all the crap she was saying anyway.. especailly what she was saying about not wanting to need a man to make her feel good,

she wasn't telling the whole story, what I think happened is this..
we got to be very good friends recently, I get close to her and start making her feel good about herself, she convinces herself because of this that she loves me and she ought to go out with me, last week she opens the door for me to make a move and I step through.. for some reason by the time we've got to my room a few hours later she's realised that she's not in love with me, and that basically she's using me as a way to make herself feel good about herself..
She also realises that because of this a relationship wouldn't work and calls the whole thing off, because she wants to keep me as a friend without the risk of hurting me or herself by us going out...

The "I'm not ready for a relationship" is bs. Basically she's realised she needs a relationship with a guy that is based on more than just him making her feel good about herself, I can't offer more than that at the moment so she put a stop to it. If she met a guy she really did love the commitment stuff wouldn't be an issue..

I realised I'd done the same thing with some chick back in school, I knew she liked me, so I hung out with her and flirted with her because it boosted my ego, however I knew I didn't really wanna go out with her so I never did..

"I'll be closer to you as a friend than I ever could be as a girlfriend" was her saying "I've realised I only see you as a friend"

The only way I see I have any chance with her now, is by stepping back a bit, hopefully meeting someone else anyway and not giving her quite so much of my time..

Basically the only option is to move on.. she may come crawling back, then I gotta decide what to do, but I can't keep up the hope of getting it on with her..