Location and circumstances growing up = almost everything.

[Listen_to_Olly]

I've noticed over the years a big difference between guys I met who were naturally somewhat alpha, secure in themselves, successful with women in their younger years, and generally felt fulfilled in regards to women compared to guys who were late bloomers, not as successful with women maybe until they got older, and always felt like they were playing catch up to some extent. I find this to be especially true for guys I know who lost their virginity at a much older age than normal (any age past 20).

Maybe it is just my small sample but I noticed that the things that really set the guys apart were not looks (not even in the slightest) or not even game, it was the circumstances they had growing up as well as the culture of the place they grew up in (better known as "location"). I've met guys who were handsome but lost their virginity at the age of 21 and one even when he was 25 because he had gone through so much **** with narcissistic parents who were always on his **** plus he lived in a town where most women were hideous so he never bothered with it, doing well now though.

Here are things I've noticed among the guys who had success with girls at an earlier age, not all of them have to be the case but at least one has to be but these are just things I've noticed that can help tremendously:

1 - Laid back parents that aren't too restrictive and to an extent encourage their kid to be socially involved.

2 - Middle class upbringing or better because a lot of the partying and drinking culture of high school (Superbad) is mostly placed in these types of social classes.

3 - Raised in a favorable locations like a big culturally liberal city such as NYC or LA where hedonistic activities are not that looked down upon.

4 - Raised in an area where there are a good number of attractive women, went to high schools where there were a lot of hot girls.

Guys I've known who had all 4 of those going in their favor, regardless of how they looked or the amount of game they had, managed to do quite well in their adolescence which really built up their confidence. Most of them lost their virginity early, ended up in LTRs when they entered their 20s, and just did things most normal people their age do. Even if the guy isn't all that good looking or has much game, having all 4 of those work in his favor means that he is generally going to lose his virginity in his adolescence and not really have that many issues with the game.

High school experience and college experience, these guys more or less get it all.

Here are things I've seen that are massive roadblocks:

1- Overbearing parents, especially helicopter parents.

2 - Poor upbringing, since poverty brings on a lot of other issues and you aren't going to find a lot of hot girls in poor areas of town (at least not in the USA).

3 - Raised in unfavorable locations such as socially conservative towns full of religious and morally self-righteous people where things like sex before marriage are highly frowned upon, what people actually do is another story but pretty confusing for a guy growing up in that situation.

4 - Raised in an area where there aren't a lot of attractive women, like an impoverished part of town for example.

I've noticed that guys who had all 4 going against them tend to enter their 20s as virgins, seek out PUA and other resources to really help themselves out, and spend a lot of their lives playing catch up in regards to women and game. Some of these guys are the types of guys that tend to place a lot of importance on getting laid and letting others know about it because they missed out on it in their youth, most of the times due to circumstances out of their control.

A good number of these guys are the types that end up being clueless with women as they get older while their counterparts who I talked about earlier in the thread have experienced it all in regards to women by the age of 25.

We always say its game or looks but I think that is hardly the case because so many guys I've known who have gotten hot girls at an earlier age weren't always attractive or even that charismatic, they just lucked into the right circumstances.

On the other hand I've known charismatic and/or handsome guys that don't have much sexual experience because of things like the location they grew up in. One of my friends is a tall handsome white guy who was a virgin until the age of 18 because he went to a high school in the ghetto full of fat ugly girls who were mostly either black or Hispanic. If this guy was raised in the suburbs, it would have been a different story.

Your thoughts?

 

[Roober]

Well, I believe upbringing plays a huuuuuuuuge part in your success with women. My background: parents were both alcoholics, dad beat my mom pretty badly, I cannot recall much of anything before the age of 10. They split and both got their stuff together. I stayed with dad cause mom was all over the place. He went to college, got his drinking to a manageable level, and started doing really well for himself. They have been split since I was in elementary school. I pretty much only saw mom during the summer.

My brother and I both seemed to fall into the same role. I lost my virginity tooo too young, and not until recently, realized that I was longing for that attention from women. This is why I became soooo needy...

My dating life...
-at 17, started dating this girl, followed her to Vegas, and last for about two years off and on
-at 20, nearing the end of previous relationship, I moved onto ex-wife, dated for 5 years, married for 7
-shortly after divorce, I started dating my ex until she broke up with me last week (but it's been over for about a month)

I believe our upbringing is far more important than social status. I didn't have a woman in my life, so I felt like I needed that to feel good about myself. I was a total latchkey kid as my dad would often work to 8 or 9 at night.

But even people in what looks like great upbringings can suffer. My ex-gf has the nuclear family and from the outside the look solid; private schools, dinner at home, decent neighborhood. However, mom is totally career driven and never home. Dad is a total pushover. I believe this is why she seeks so much attention, and has a poor self image...

How our parents love us is critical to our futures not only with women, but in life... Kids need both parents, and they both need to be there...

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

I grew up in a moderate size, moderately cosmopolitan town, probably 1000 people at school, probably 2000 at college, with other institutions locally.

As far as my personal circumstances are concerned, you'd say I was fairly average too, moderately well-off, but not exactly privileged by today's standards. I had friends and peers who were richer, better-looking, taller, louder, blablabla. I had social equals who didn't lose the v-plates til later, had fewer encounters, blablabla.

It was me, though, who was the envy of the rest. I was directly told by one guy that I dated the chicks who all the other guys wanted. And looking back, I really was dating in the top 10 percent of our specific age group at the time. In fact it was myself and maybe 2 or three other guys in town (I wasn't connected to) who ran round with the very hottest women. I attribute this to two primary factors:

-Exceptionally high standards of women.
-Not giving a fck, not trying too hard - quiet, moody teenager; inadvertently alpha.

No doubt upbringing plays a profound role on outlook, especially early imprinting by parents. But I'd say beyond anything else, it is only outlook that dictates success. Circumstances change, past experiences don't. Ofcourse lviing in a sleepy village of 100 people will limit your experience. But if a guy doesn't like where he's at, or the people around him, he can change that. I became the big fish in a small pond, so I moved.

 

[Trainwreck]

I agree with La, poor is relative depending on whether you are the poorest guy in school or not. I strongly believe HS and College are not accurate representations of the real world whatsoever. College is essentially High School without living with your parents. If a man thrives in these environments than that does mean he will do well in the real world. In the real world, other factors come in to play that weren't in play. It doesn't mean a person that did terrible in these environments will do well in the real world. However, I think we are all underestimating personality/mentality of the person. A man is adaptable can do well in any scenario.

 

[Trainwreck]

But I am misogynistic and patriarchal due to my upbringing. My dad has no spine and prefers a woman that bosses him around and this affected my childhood. I've never been truly screwed over by a female because I dropped the Disney mentality at an early age. In addition, he's a blatant feminist that believes women are superior and treated my sister better than me. I've always been a loner type of guy so I've had issues pulling girls due to lack of social circle. However I do well in a party situation/Tindee where girls can meet me in person.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Agree 100%. I had helicopter parents who were strict as fvck and put me (and my siblings, minus my brother) in a private religious school for 9 years. That school had a graduating class of around 50, and they separated boys and girls from each other after 5th grade. Dad was never home for most of my childhood because he was always working. When he was home though, the way he reacted to situations was the equivalent of sociopathic manipulation, or as you guys put it, "BPD". He got me and all of my siblings attached to him like how BPDs do (again, minus my brother) and would constantly make us feel bad over every single little thing and sheltered us a fvckton from the outside world and made us antisocial despite it being in my genes to be extroverted. Ex: "turn the fan on after you take a shower, it takes the moisture out so that mold doesnt grow on the walls which costs thousands of dollars to fix. That's wasting my money" *next day* "turn off the fan, electricity costs money, your wasting my money". Or when I was 3 years old "don't talk to strangers, they will kidnap you, cut you up peice by peice as meat, and eat you or sell you" (who the **** says that to their 3 year old kids? My siblings even remember him saying that to us all the time).
Mom during my childhood was a crazy b!tch addicted to coffee so much that my dad later on said the she reminded him of the crackhead prostitutes at work who were super jittery. She used to hit my dad and fight with him a lot, several times she almost killed him (my dad told me this about her, she only admit it when confronted). She also liked another man from her work at the time anyway and so she kinda left us to fend for ourselves, hence why I made that other thread explaining why it is so much worse for a woman to cheat than a man. She didn't cheat though because when she confessed her love for that guy, he basically bashed her, yelled at her and embarrassed the fvck outta her. She told my dad eveerything, and the only reason why my dad didn't divorce her is because when he was young, his parents got divorced. After his parents got divorced, his entire life went to sh!t, like REALLY bad. I'm talking like the worst life you can possibly live on this Earth, he lived through (worse than the German Jews who lived during the Holocaust, doesn't compare), and it happened once his parents got divorced. That's why he didn't want to get rid of my mom. If she cheated though, he would have killed her and the other man right away, no questions asked. He wouldn't lose the slightest bit of sleep over it either.

On top of all that craziness going on in my household, I struggled at school because my dad had enrolled me one year early. I was not as physically or mentally developed, nor were my social skills. My older sister sufferred the same fate because she was enrolled a year early too, though because she's a girl she had better social skills naturally so she made friends outside of her school at our athletics (my mom never did any sports as a kid so she tried living through all of us and put us in every sport known to man). My younger sister just learned from all our fvckups so she never did too bad. And my brother was one of the few children in history who only listened to his gut instincts on everything. He doesn't do emotions. He still had

Overall, I was a pessimistic, weak, wimpy sorry excuse for a fvcking loser. I just sucked at life. I want to disregard my entire life from 7 to 12. I hate it, and I hate my parents for making me turn into that person. I started reprogram my brain when I was 11 and it took a little over a year to do, hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Most people do it with drugs, but I was only 11 so I had no access to drugs, fortunately. I became the person who I wanted to become when I was 15 years old (a little bit before when I first found this site), but my family kept knocking me and telling me to shutup when I would feel great (it happened when I first began watching boxing videos of Muhammad Ali and began resaying his phrases, hence my username. This is why I strongly believe Pook when he said "As you think, you shall become"). I always wanted to get back to that state of mind, but now I do not know how. If I had not moved my senior year, I might have, but I did because my dad wanted to. It crushed me doing that. I had no say, and all of this is why in some of my other threads I asked for advice on how to deal with my dad. He kept using manipulation to try and control me and I hated it, it essentially ruined my life. That's why we got super close to fist fighting. I called him out on his games and he couldn't handle it. But he knew I was stronger than him. I hate talking about this. I gotta go cuz this is pissing me off to think about. But look at this post. I'm not even completely normal for fvcks sake. This is the fault of my parents and solely their fault. And I know all you adults hate it for me to say this about my parents, but it's true. "You know about their faults so you can't keep blaming them". That may be true, but I still live with them, and I have to keep living with them for almost another decade. They still hold influence over me because of that and will seek to abuse that.

And OP you are right, I will forever have this void in me because I never was able to do what I wanted to do growing up so I wasn't able to grow and develop with any of my passions except one sport. But I got kicked off the college team because the coach hated me. Fvck this, I need someone to talk to but my dad shows no support over anything we do and my mom doesn't even try to understand any issues we have. I hate this ****. I'm 17 years old and especially because I'm in college, people expect me to act like I'm 40. I haven't been with all the chicks I wanted to be with, I haven't hung out with friends as much as I wanted to, I haven't had my fair share of 'fun' yet. People say college is the time for you to experiment, yet this commuter school doesn't have anyone 'trying' anything. I already had my life figured out by 15, but by the looks of things it doesn't seem to be happening the way I wanted it to because my parents havent given me full support. I hate this, I walk the streets of the city to and from the train station with a small part of me hoping that someone tries to mug me so that I can just release all of my rage and kill the sucker, even though truthfully I would probably be the one killed. And I sound like a ****ing maniac right now, does this seem like someone well adjusted to you? My mom came down while typing this cuz she felt that I was mad and wanted to talk to me. I tried telling her what was on my mind and she just turned around and walked away after a few minutes.

Look at me, the eiptome of someone who couldn't ****ing make it from a sh!tty upbringing. Angry at the world, no friends anymore, and talking about my life on a forum about how to get fvcking girls. I can't even exercise anymore because I have no time due to school. The last time I was truly happy was when I was 6 years old. Life sucks.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I had These (scenarios) in my "upbringing":

1 - Laid back parents that aren't too restrictive and to an extent encourage their kid to be socially involved.

2 - Middle class upbringing or better because a lot of the partying and drinking culture of high school (Superbad) is mostly placed in these types of social classes.

3 - Raised in unfavorable locations such as socially conservative towns full of religious and morally self-righteous people where things like sex before marriage are highly frowned upon, what people actually do is another story but pretty confusing for a guy growing up in that situation.

Most of the girls growing up pursued me, not me pursuing them, though I did ask a girl I didn't even know or talk to to the prom (and she rejected me, even though she was chubby and should have been receptive to me, a good-looking boy - though not very popular, she wasn't popular at all, a band nerd).

So I was kissed by girls in 8th grade, 10th grade, 12th grade (first feel of t!ts, some pvssy - she took me into another room at a party we'd played a beer game and I got very wasted so she took advantage of me - she'd had a crush on me SINCE 8th grade - She also mounted me at another party earlier that year - we were semi-drunk then too, this was outside in the cool air late at night, I'm sure other people at the party may have seen us). She pursued me and I wasn't necessarily attracted to her. Another girl in the 9th grade was after me, she was the sister of a teammate in baseball. I was a standout pitcher and she'd go to my games and sit in my line of vision in the bleachers as I pitched. She dropped notes into my locker asking about our "relationship." Quite frankly I didn't want her, she was zit faced but a couple of years younger than me. We messed around in my bud's boat at night. He had his date, she was my date. He set it up for us all to go out on that fishing boat that night. He set it all up probably at her prodding. EVERY girl I pursued, REJECTED me. Another girl pursued me because she'd remembered me from preschool, like it came back to her who I was and she remembered loving me then, I faintly remembered her. So she fell for me and had other dudes who were semi-friends with me, call me and ask me to ask her out or call her. She also was amazed that I effortlessly aced all algebra tests, while everyone else seemed to struggle.
Math was always my greatest subject (not now, though, I'm blue collar). She too had zits, and a horse laugh that turned me off, but she was a good poor girl and I guess I should have accepted her, but fvck, Every girl I wanted, DID NOT want me.

 

[Trainwreck]

I was also never in contact with any women until 12th grade which I caught oneitis lol

 

[SmooveMooves]

I agree with OP's analysis.

 

[Listen_to_Olly]

I agree with La, poor is relative depending on whether you are the poorest guy in school or not. I strongly believe HS and College are not accurate representations of the real world whatsoever. College is essentially High School without living with your parents. If a man thrives in these environments than that does mean he will do well in the real world. In the real world, other factors come in to play that weren't in play. It doesn't mean a person that did terrible in these environments will do well in the real world. However, I think we are all underestimating personality/mentality of the person. A man is adaptable can do well in any scenario.

Most of the times, the men that thrive in these environments don't really do so because of their own effort. A lot of these guys are the guys who had wealthy parents that paid thousands of dollars for their kid to be in a fraternity and brought him the nicest car to show off to girls his own age. Most of these environments are status driven so game and even looks I would argue hardly matter all that much. It is all about what groups you run in, what people you shake hands with, and where you stand compared to others. Hot girls at those ages go for guys they are familiar with because they don't want to be labeled as sluts for hooking up with a random.

In the real world, game and looks matter a lot more which is why some of these frat bros hardly get any action, they didn't have either in their school years.

 

[Listen_to_Olly]

Long post which I did read.

WOW!

Okay dude, first, read my post above and realize it is not your issue.

Second, ya, you're going to miss out on the college experience but most guys miss out on it anyways.

Lastly, you need to work on making sure that what you're studying in college is worth it. Pick a major that has good career prospects so you can move to a big city and find work there.

I recommend getting involved in some activities when you move to a big city, maybe a club or something you're passionate about. Definitely spend the weekends finding some sort of a social group.