Lets Talk Fundamentals
- Thread starter kingwilliam
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Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
Only in the opening stages. You'll have to appear or you disappear. Ignorance not withstanding, indifference, when it's seems ambiguous, is a wonderful tool once you have a girl intrigued and hooked.WestCoaster said:
It's hard to really make "industry standard" rules for when to call back a number close because of all the variables. If these girls were all cold approaches and you don't know any of them personally or socially from within a peer group of friends, I'd say 2-3 days depending on which day you met. You also need to factor in the circumstances of the number close. For instance, was she drunk or buzzed when you started vibing on her? Was she with a set of girls at the time you met and closed? Girls talk and any positives you may have had in the form of social proof will linger the more they do. Did you make a strong impression? Was there a lot of eye contact? Did you kiss close too? In all of these instances I'd suggest 2 days minimum. Also bear in mind you number closed 3 girls; keep track of them and never fall into thinking that you can only pick one. Spin all 3 plates non-exclusively.
If you closed a girl within a peer group (i.e. someone you mutually know introduced you), you have more leeway in your timing. You have the benefit of social proof and approval already established so I'd suggest 3-4 days before calling. This extended period is to allow for imaginations and confirmation to develop within the peer group.
In either case, when you do call, keep it short and to the point with the focus being on getting together privately. None of this spilling your life's story out on the phone. Rapport is established face to face, not on the phone, not on IMs, not in emails, but face to ƒucking face. It is vitally important to see the person's posture, expressions, subcommunications and a whole host of other messages that are only apparent in the physical. If she inquires as to why it took you 2-4 days to call, or you feel it's an unspoken issue, you reason should always be something unavoidable and confidence affirming for her. Let her know you would've called sooner, but you had to fly somewhere on business, your mother was recovering from surgery, you had a final to study for, you had a new project at work to finish, etc. etc., but anything that seems personally positive and gives her a sneak peek at your lifestyle. This is a teaser and makes for open-ended dialog.
I should also add that the day and time of day you call is important as well. If you met a girl on a Saturday, call on Tuesday after 5pm (i.e. after work). Met her on a Thursday evening? Call Sunday afternoon. Odds are she's already got plans for Friday and Saturday and unless she's got a very high IL for you she wont be changing them on that short a notice. Met on a Friday, call Monday after work.
Most guys (see AFCS) are their own worst enemies when it comes to having the patience to hold out for even 2 days. The conventional wisdom in holding off is that anything earlier means a guy has no other options (i.e. desperate) and/or has nothing better to occupy his time (i.e. low end job, ambitionless). In keeping yourself reserved you allow her imagination to work for you. It's important for a guy to present the perception that his attention and time is in demand and he is making special considerations not only to call a woman, but to schedule a date with her. You are the PRIZE and if she has the IL you'd want any girl to have with you to consider them an acceptable intimate she'll pursue. As POOK says, women would rather share a successful man than be trapped with a faithful loser.
All of this may seem like over analyzing, but all it really comes down to is basic social-psychology and applying self-control and patience. Should one of your plates ever become a long term consideration you need to have established the frame of the relationship at the rapport stages - that's why this stuff is important.
Rollo Tomassi
Master Don Juan
WestCoaster
Master Don Juan
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I would agree with much of what you said, especially calling and leaving the message short. If you chat for more than 5 minutes, it's too long.
Also, someone wrote we're over-analyzing and call when you want, 6 months later if you'd like. Uh, by then she's long gone. The purpose of this board is to change the way people were doing things. Yeah, do what you want like buy jewelry and flowers for the first date, that will work.
No, don't do what you want, do what works. The purpose of sosuave.com and the message boards is to change the matrix or whatever you want to call it.
I'd say 2 days is optimal, though I've done the next day, which I wasn't totally comfortable with. I've never talked longer than 3 minutes on the next call, save that for the date.
Also, someone wrote we're over-analyzing and call when you want, 6 months later if you'd like. Uh, by then she's long gone. The purpose of this board is to change the way people were doing things. Yeah, do what you want like buy jewelry and flowers for the first date, that will work.
No, don't do what you want, do what works. The purpose of sosuave.com and the message boards is to change the matrix or whatever you want to call it.
I'd say 2 days is optimal, though I've done the next day, which I wasn't totally comfortable with. I've never talked longer than 3 minutes on the next call, save that for the date.
Colossus
Master Don Juan
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Now matter how many times I see that scene, I cringe every time.Rollo Tomassi said:
I think the common thread here is to set the frame in your favor. Because there are an infinite number of variables for a given situation, the approach will never be identical. I would say a good commandment to keep is to wait at least 36-48 hrs no matter what, and never leave a message the first time you call.
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
Based on my experience, the more "game" had to do with getting her initial interest, the sooner you should hit it; the more she's interested in your characteristics (looks, status, etc. -- the kind of stuff one would look for in an online profile), the better it is to wait.
ok this is how i do things in relation to this:
I never ever ever ask for a number unless i know the chick is 'interested' or invested.
What i mean is 'i do not waste my time, unless i see heavy IOI's'.
I i accomplish this:
First i will talk to the girl, create conversation toss in a bit of C&F, see if she has a good sense of humour and is operating on the same wave length, then slowly i will shift it around to get her to 'chase' me to show me the indicators of interest to show i am not wasting my time in talking to her.
Granted i could just come out with direct approaching, but this way i get to coax her interest.
At first i tell her:
NOTHING
about me at all.
If she is interested she will ask me profile type questions:
Whets your name?
What do you do?
e.t.c
e.t.c
If she is not interested she will not ask these questions AT ALL.
I never give her the answer she wants, EVER, not on the first meeting.
I tell her some random cra*.
What’s your name:
Juliano robberto (I am english with a deep accent, not Italian at all, they think its italian, or i come out with some other name, just to be fun)
This shows her i am disinterested in her and not going to fall over hurdles but she has got my 'interest in the sense of HUMOUR', hence the first stage of initiating her to chase.
What job do you do:
International surfer for the police currently doing canal rescues on my surf board.
or some other random trash that you can work on and build up to build silly little stories.
The more interested she is the more she will play on these or try to get my real details, e.t.c.
I keep prodding away by not jumping through her hoops and get her to try to jump through mine, to see how into me she is.
THEN AND ONLY THEN, will i EVER ASK FOR A NUMBER.
When you know she has invested interest in you.
It matters not when you ring.
This is what i do when i get a number.
I ring the phone the second she gives me the number.
When she looks at it, i give her a smile as in stating 'NO GAMES'.
I don’t have to say anything, she knows what’s being communicated, it shows two things:
A: I am confident to not gain approval or pee her off for ringing her and calling her out on a possible flake.
B: It proves the number she has given me is right so i never have to wonder.
And for an added BONUS:
She now as my number so i can bust on her later if i never get a call.
I phone back WHENEVER IT SUITS ME
And always set up the date then end it there.
Simply call her small chat, see how she is, did she have a good night, ask her when she is free and get her out to a bar or a coffee shop or something.
that’s it!
Worrying about when to call, tells me your at lvl beginner.
beginner in the sense of getting numbers and worrying about flaking.
It happens, it has happened to me so much i now do the above and you know what 9/10 times it works it works well.
That’s not stating every girl you game will do the above, but at least when you KNOW SHE IS IN THE ZONE, your not going to be wasting time phoning a flake.
It also shows your not wasting date time and money on a girl who does not connect with you! I like fun girls, if you like serious or girl next door girls, make them jump through those hoops, it is after all a numbers game anyway.
Also why spread out, the potential for failure?
By not establishing report or comfort building e.t.c or building interest, your just prolonging the possibility for rejection, you just sticking a time delay on it, which imo makes things worse as your now stuck with 'what if' instead of what you now know.
I never ever ever ask for a number unless i know the chick is 'interested' or invested.
What i mean is 'i do not waste my time, unless i see heavy IOI's'.
I i accomplish this:
First i will talk to the girl, create conversation toss in a bit of C&F, see if she has a good sense of humour and is operating on the same wave length, then slowly i will shift it around to get her to 'chase' me to show me the indicators of interest to show i am not wasting my time in talking to her.
Granted i could just come out with direct approaching, but this way i get to coax her interest.
At first i tell her:
NOTHING
about me at all.
If she is interested she will ask me profile type questions:
Whets your name?
What do you do?
e.t.c
e.t.c
If she is not interested she will not ask these questions AT ALL.
I never give her the answer she wants, EVER, not on the first meeting.
I tell her some random cra*.
What’s your name:
Juliano robberto (I am english with a deep accent, not Italian at all, they think its italian, or i come out with some other name, just to be fun)
This shows her i am disinterested in her and not going to fall over hurdles but she has got my 'interest in the sense of HUMOUR', hence the first stage of initiating her to chase.
What job do you do:
International surfer for the police currently doing canal rescues on my surf board.
or some other random trash that you can work on and build up to build silly little stories.
The more interested she is the more she will play on these or try to get my real details, e.t.c.
I keep prodding away by not jumping through her hoops and get her to try to jump through mine, to see how into me she is.
THEN AND ONLY THEN, will i EVER ASK FOR A NUMBER.
When you know she has invested interest in you.
It matters not when you ring.
This is what i do when i get a number.
I ring the phone the second she gives me the number.
When she looks at it, i give her a smile as in stating 'NO GAMES'.
I don’t have to say anything, she knows what’s being communicated, it shows two things:
A: I am confident to not gain approval or pee her off for ringing her and calling her out on a possible flake.
B: It proves the number she has given me is right so i never have to wonder.
And for an added BONUS:
She now as my number so i can bust on her later if i never get a call.
I phone back WHENEVER IT SUITS ME
And always set up the date then end it there.
Simply call her small chat, see how she is, did she have a good night, ask her when she is free and get her out to a bar or a coffee shop or something.
that’s it!
Worrying about when to call, tells me your at lvl beginner.
beginner in the sense of getting numbers and worrying about flaking.
It happens, it has happened to me so much i now do the above and you know what 9/10 times it works it works well.
That’s not stating every girl you game will do the above, but at least when you KNOW SHE IS IN THE ZONE, your not going to be wasting time phoning a flake.
It also shows your not wasting date time and money on a girl who does not connect with you! I like fun girls, if you like serious or girl next door girls, make them jump through those hoops, it is after all a numbers game anyway.
Also why spread out, the potential for failure?
By not establishing report or comfort building e.t.c or building interest, your just prolonging the possibility for rejection, you just sticking a time delay on it, which imo makes things worse as your now stuck with 'what if' instead of what you now know.