Lessons in 2023

Bingo-Player

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Ive met a lot of women this year but my churn rate is high this is partly down to me having a zero tolerance policy on low - medium interest , a zero tolerance policy on repeating myself and a zero tolerance policy on other nonsense that they regularly come up with

Ive had sex with a handful of different women this year which is more than most will get but still a low return for the amount of work i've done and I can say only 1 of them women was anywhere near a decent level of quality

A lot of women have said I'm "very forward" I think what this means is they recognise I am not here to play games but at the same time I think I am maybe coming across as too much all at once

I have always tended to dial up the sexual undertones very very quickly when I meet a new woman and as much as the pickup community would love to believe this works

In practice it doesn't work well (well it does but only with women who are generally low quality or below your own SMV these women will literally do anything too please you so its ineffective too )

am still figuring out why but my theory is most women seem to want too be the ones that initiate seduction they want to feel like they are seducing you which makes sense because that is a feminine role and as a woman she wants to feel like she has "won you"

When a man does the seducing for them it seems to make them feel like they have been robbed of their role and I guess this doesn't do much for them

Ultimately women think like this........ " if this guy is putting it on me so quickly he must do it with every woman" and I think this translates into a perception of a low value man

Its a strange dynamic but the more examples I run through the more Its start to make sense , you really do need to be subtle with women and almost draw them in using layers of reverse psychology

Women love married men and men in relationships because it lets them use their feminine charms to try and seduce them

very very difficult for a logical mans mind to understand and I guess why men struggle so much with women

Been a steep learning curve this year and at 30 I thought I pretty much had it all sussed

Ultimately getting women as a man is a lot different to getting women as a boy
 

MtmVaott

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Several years back I was told I'd be 'very fast'. I tried to rush things as well - and to be honest I was only interested in the poon. I already knew right from the start I wouldn't present these girls to my parents and I made sure to use a condom.

I don't think that reasoning why girls don't like rushing in is useful. I made the same observations as you though.
The ironic part is that the more you reel girls in, the more they line themselves up even if they are a terrible fit personality-wise for a LTR. They just seem to get blinded like we are when we see a super hot girl.

Do you remember this advice from Doc Love that is ~ that your proposal for a date is already a big enough display of interest and you don't need to show anything on top? This kind of provides the girl a frame in which she can do all the seducing... So you basically make the decisions or you let her choose between options and tell her that you like x. And then she is doing all the rationalizing herself and yadda yadda.
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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Its a strange dynamic but the more examples I run through the more Its start to make sense , you really do need to be subtle with women and almost draw them in using layers of reverse psychology
If a woman throws herself at you, wouldn't you think she's a 304 and doing that to other men as well?
 

Bingo-Player

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If a woman throws herself at you, wouldn't you think she's a 304 and doing that to other men as well?
The gender roles are different though men have to instigate to get anywhere

meaning usually at some level a man has to approach a woman to get her attention , most young men (including myself) can't help but bow into our sexual instincts we want to smash asap and that usually means trying to get sexual with her quickly

What I am saying is if you can control and delay them urges until she is on the hook it will all play out a lot smoother

the real skill comes in indirectly getting her attention and that is why women love men with power so much because it draws them in
 

NorwegianDJ

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When I moved to Copenhagen two years ago and started exploring and engaging with the queer community, I got to experience what it is like to be a woman in this situation that you're describing.

I think you could learn a lot from getting hit on by other men.
I'd be vibing with men and it could be fun and enticing and sexy.
We talk well and we laugh and have fun. Dancing, touching, eye-contact.
Being considered, being noticed, being appreciated and taken in.

But very often, once most men could sniff that they could get something - or worse: when they got something, they switched completely.
I become their trauma vehicle.
They just want the next thing. They just want more of it. Their whole energy shifts into pursuit, and I become an object of gratification.
I cease to be a person, I become an object of desire.
It's really quite dull and one-dimensional.
Try it.

It turns women off because you don't treat them like a human being.
It turns them off, because you become less than a human being.
You reduce both of you and the flow stops. If there's no flow, no reflection; if the music stops playing, the party's over.
It's about the journey, not the destination.
When you get to having sex, you're too busy thinking about keeping it anyway.
Stop it.

How can it be interesting?
Work on connecting with what breathes life into you.
Your inner connection.
How can I love this some more?
All other games are futile.
 

Bingo-Player

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, the more they line themselves up even if they are a terrible fit personality-wise for a LTR. They just seem to get blinded like we are when we see a super hot girl.

Do you remember this advice from Doc Love that is ~ that your proposal for a date is already a big enough display of interest and you don't need to show anything on top? This kind of provides the girl a frame in which she can do all the seducing... So you basically make the decisions or you let her choose between options and tell her that you like x. And then she is doing all the rationalizing herself and yadda yadda.
Yes I am fairly certain just as men fantasise about sleeping with hot beautiful girls

Women fantasise about what it would be like to be in a relationship with a man she deems as relationship material

( or in a lot of cases a man other women deem as relationship material )

These are polar opposite view points on both attraction and interaction and again why communication at the dating stage between men and women is so poor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Whilst I was on holiday in the summer there was a beautiful French girl by the pool

I approached her she spoke next to no English , so I just introduced myself and moved on

I saw her a couple of times again throughout the day glances here and there

Later in the evening from a sheer stroke of luck I was in an elevator it stopped the door opened and she was there waiting to get in

we were alone , I pointed and said she looked very attractive

She got google translate up and told me she thought the same

We swapped instagrams and were messaging back and forth for hours both in completely different languages using translate

She actually came to my room at about 3 in the morning unfortunately my flight was leaving that morning so I had to leave but it was a super interesting experience

It proved to me that seduction is largely silent
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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The gender roles are different though men have to instigate to get anywhere
Yes, I know, but imagine the reversal. You're a handsome man and a woman comes over and immediately starts giving sexual innuendo. How do you not see her as thirsty and sex-obsessed?

I instigated sex all the time as a young man, until I stopped giving a fvck and stopped chasing skirts. And, how weird, women wondered why I wasn't chasing them and started approaching me, wondering why a straight man wasn't interested in them.

And when I did what women did, i.e. not being too eager to make a connection, the conclusion they drew was that I had to have something to warrant my confidence and why I was so aloof, even when they clearly indicated interest.
 

Bingo-Player

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Yes, I know, but imagine the reversal. You're a handsome man and a woman comes over and immediately starts giving sexual innuendo. How do you not see her as thirsty and sex-obsessed?

Yea it would be an instant turn off unless I was drunk or very horny

I'm not disagreeing with you
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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I'm not disagreeing with you
I know.

What I'm saying it's not weird that women don't like guys who are (too) direct, because they like to be seduced, not just conquered.
 

The Duke

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Seduction has always been my favorite part of the dating game. Eventually I went on enough dates that I got good at it. Never did I push a sexual agenda, use sexual undertones, or even mention sex. I've never had a girl tell me I wash pushy/too direct in a sexual sense. My objective was to do everything I could to get her to a point that she was the one to bring it up. I wanted her panties to be wet before I even mentioned what I wanted to do to her. To do so I needed to connect with her mind.

How did I make this happen? I took an interest in them. I got them to share their feeling & thoughts so they felt understood. The more they opened up, the more they felt connected and safe. You need to be open-minded, non-judgemental,low-key, have good awareness. Always pick venues that are conducive to good conversations that can lead to intimacy.

I always took all of my dates to places with good decor that were cozy, warm, indirect dim lighting, candles, sexy vibe with some background music, near the water, etc.
 

The Duke

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When I moved to Copenhagen two years ago and started exploring and engaging with the queer community, I got to experience what it is like to be a woman in this situation that you're describing.

I think you could learn a lot from getting hit on by other men.
I'd be vibing with men and it could be fun and enticing and sexy.
We talk well and we laugh and have fun. Dancing, touching, eye-contact.
Being considered, being noticed, being appreciated and taken in.

But very often, once most men could sniff that they could get something - or worse: when they got something, they switched completely.
I become their trauma vehicle.
They just want the next thing. They just want more of it. Their whole energy shifts into pursuit, and I become an object of gratification.
I cease to be a person, I become an object of desire.
It's really quite dull and one-dimensional.
Try it.

It turns women off because you don't treat them like a human being.
It turns them off, because you become less than a human being.
You reduce both of you and the flow stops. If there's no flow, no reflection; if the music stops playing, the party's over.
It's about the journey, not the destination.
When you get to having sex, you're too busy thinking about keeping it anyway.
Stop it.

How can it be interesting?
Work on connecting with what breathes life into you.
Your inner connection.
How can I love this some more?
All other games are futile.
Very well stated.

I had 4 gay dudes hit on me at the same bar one night. I'm guessing it was some gay convention going on. The first guy I laughed off. By the 4th guy I was ready to beat his ass and told him to get the fuhk out of my face. Even tho I have zero interest in gay dudes, I felt a little violated like I was a piece of meat. All of these guys were very direct.

I think every great seducer understands its about the journey, not the destination. Its mission critical to operate from this perspective.
 
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It turns women off because you don't treat them like a human being.
It turns them off, because you become less than a human being.
You reduce both of you and the flow stops. If there's no flow, no reflection; if the music stops playing, the party's over.
It's about the journey, not the destination.
When you get to having sex, you're too busy thinking about keeping it anyway.
Stop it.
There's one thing ur leaving out: men and women r diffrent. A woman's "value" is in her looks. She is barely human as it is.Men r th superior gender and have mroe 2 offer then theyre bodies.
 

BillyPilgrim

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Yes, I know, but imagine the reversal. You're a handsome man and a woman comes over and immediately starts giving sexual innuendo. How do you not see her as thirsty and sex-obsessed?

I instigated sex all the time as a young man, until I stopped giving a fvck and stopped chasing skirts. And, how weird, women wondered why I wasn't chasing them and started approaching me, wondering why a straight man wasn't interested in them.

And when I did what women did, i.e. not being too eager to make a connection, the conclusion they drew was that I had to have something to warrant my confidence and why I was so aloof, even when they clearly indicated interest.
Lmao the reversal is them asking you your profession off the bat and telling you their life story before you can take a sip of war.

Edit - water, not war.
 

BillyPilgrim

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OP gotta slow roll the innuendos these days unless they are extremely clever.
 
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