Lack of the positive feedback loop is the number one reason AFCs exist.

[HowardHughesDicaprio]

We all have wondered what makes guys into AFCs, virgins, losers, incels, FAs, or whatever they call it these days. People have brought up looks, personality, lack of cash, location, and everything under the sun. My life experiences along with that of most other people on this forum will say they have known average looking guys, dorks, poor guys, and guys in bad locations who have managed to have a good social life and occasionally get into relationships with girls.

So why is it that you get guys who aren't poor or ugly but still end up being losers in the game?

The reason is because they lack the Positive Feedback Loop in their life.

Lets look at situations where kids have a positive feedback loop in their life:

Think of this situation. Kid does good in school, teachers and parents tell him they are proud he is doing good in school, the kid is confident in his ability and does well in school for a longer amount of time.

Now think of it in terms of social life and getting girls.

A guy growing up gets told he is good looking -------> has some positive experiences with girls ------> guy starts interacting with girls more ----> guy gets in with the popular crowd ------> he gets laid in high school -------> his confidence develops from that.

That is what I call the positive feedback loop. It allows for confidence to take place and is the reason you see average guys with hot girls. For some reason, maybe these guys had rich dads and everyone knew about it or maybe these guys had siblings who were in popular crowds growing up so they had an "in" with it, these guys have the kind of confidence that stops them from joining forums like this and lets them enjoy their life. They cannot relate to an AFC because for most of their lives they have the mentality of winners.

Now lets look at an example of life without the positive feedback loop:

Kid grows up in a crappy household (overly protective parents or single parent) -----> Family moves around a lot ------> has issues developing as a result of it ------> likely gets picked on or singled out for being weird -----> bad experiences with the opposite sex growing up -------> lack of experience in love/sex/intimacy ------> low self-esteem and sense of self worth

People love to blame genetics as the culprit but the vast majority of this is due to a bad upbringing and unfortunate circumstances. Guys like these go through a lot of their younger years questioning why so many bad things happened to them and how unattractive they even though there are guys uglier than them getting quality women. They do join internet forums where they can commonly chat with others who are just like them.

Enough of this negative experience and these guys turn sadistic often taking their frustrations out on the world. You can see it through their writings and posts which are loaded with anger and pure evil.

But if I was to just end the thread right here, that would make a lot of you depressed. So what if I was to tell you that there is a way to happiness and fulfillment if you grew up without the positive feedback loop in your life?

A lot of people out there have endured through emotional pain growing up and a lack of opportunity yet still struck gold. There are male celebrities who grew up ugly (cristiano ronaldo and ryan seacrest for example) who turned it around and are more desirable than 98 percent of guys out there. I have personally known guys like this and consider myself to somewhat be in that category.

It is really simple but so hard to do.

1. Live in the now - let go of the dark past and don't resort to mental masturbation by looking too much into the future. Live in this moment, this minute, and enjoy it. Enjoy the little things in life and be grateful. Live in this moment because you never know when opportunity might strike.

2. Look for that one small light in your dark past - maybe it was your mom that hugged you when you were going through something rough or a stranger that did a kind thing for you. Let that start your own little positive feedback loop. I kinda got this from X-Men First Class when Charles Xavier is helping Magneto (played by Michael Fassbender) move a large satellite dish.

I think with all the negativity I put here, it was time I contributed a positive thread.

 

[Redwood]

Good work, man.

More of the newcomers should read this thread. Hopefully this should build up the lack of self-esteem that 95% of the come with.

 

[Skyline]

Now lets look at an example of life without the positive feedback loop:

Kid grows up in a crappy household (overly protective parents or single parent) -----> Family moves around a lot ------> has issues developing as a result of it ------> likely gets picked on or singled out for being weird -----> bad experiences with the opposite sex growing up -------> lack of experience in love/sex/intimacy ------> low self-esteem and sense of self worth

People love to blame genetics as the culprit but the vast majority of this is due to a bad upbringing and unfortunate circumstances. Guys like these go through a lot of their younger years questioning why so many bad things happened to them and how unattractive they even though there are guys uglier than them getting quality women. They do join internet forums where they can commonly chat with others who are just like them.

This is pretty accurate, sounds a lot like my upbringing too. I remember I was never really withdrawn until my dad died and then my mom moved the whole family when I was going into the 4th grade. After that it was never really the same, don't really know what my upbringing was like before all that happened to be honest. My sisters seemed to have hit hard from it as well, one of them even ran away with some guy at some point. But yeah just like any AFC I didn't really get enough love/positive feedback from my mom or dad to develop a strong sense of confidence. Instead I developed a giant ego and self pitying attitude that was only enforced by social media.

That was until mid-junior year I found SS. SS, which includes everyone I have listened too on it, is pretty much the source of my confidence and overall guidance. It sound weird but this site is a big part of my life, would have probably stayed confused/angry for a lot longer than I would have without it.

It's pretty much true that who you become relies on your upbringing. For example, my older sister watches my nephew for my sister. Now my older sister isn't exactly in the place of proper "parenting" considering her situation with her life. He's over quite often and every time he's here and she's watching him, she's usually doing a half ass job and letting him run around while she sleeps on the couch. This causes him to get into things that she doesn't want him to. Since she believes in beating as punishment, just light smacking and such, you would think he would be not out of control all the time. But no.

Part of learning discipline is learning through punishment, whether it be given from a guardian or the result of a confrontation, and learning through love. The way he's being raised, and it's not just the way my older sister is raising him it's the way his mother is also raising him as well, he's going down a road of rage and low self-esteem. He's out of control because no one is paying attention to him, in the sense of giving him love and affection. And because no one is paying attention to him he gets into things and starts doing things that get him attention. And because of that, he starts to get punished for those things. And since there is no balance in love and punishment he's only going to know those negative experiences which equate to basically an AFC. It's essential a child is not only loved but punished. They can't just be loved or they'll become self entitled and they can't just be punished or they'll be angry and depressed. Both are AFC's/losers.

I really want to intervene, but my older sister that is watching him is 26 and thinks she knows better. This is the same older sister who believes feminism is a "good" thing. Plus, I don't want to question someone else's parenting into thinking I know better. I'm only 18 so I probably don't but I know for sure that what they're doing is wrong. And I probably don't now the whole picture but then again that kid is family...

 

[El Payaso]

Interesting. A rare good thread.

 

[Thundernuts]

Kid grows up in a crappy household (overly protective parents or single parent) -----> Family moves around a lot ------> has issues developing as a result of it ------> likely gets picked on or singled out for being weird -----> bad experiences with the opposite sex growing up -------> lack of experience in love/sex/intimacy ------> low self-esteem and sense of self worth

Yeah thats my life. Moved around bout 9 times starting when i was eleven, had 2 friends who were living the easy life while i was stuck with my overly protective alcoholic mother.

The hardest part for me was when i had to do some real self evaluation. I thought about my life for the longest time to try and figure out where things started going bad. I knew what the source was but i didnt quite know how to fix it until I got on SS.

Its amazing how much I learned about people in general just by learning about women. I know enough now to help myself in most situations but I still have trouble compensating for my lack of social experience. I'm used to hard living, not parties or social gatherings.

Its funny I was just telling my boss today that I'll walk into a tight space with 200 cows with no problem but put me in a room with a bunch of people i dont know and watch me get nervous. All we can do is keep improving. As adults who are aware of reality the greatest part is we have the choice of what we improve and who we become.

 

[DJFear]

Yeah this is very true and something that isnt mentioned as much as it should. Your upbringing really in a way "programs" you for the rest of your life and its hard to change it the older you get. It is a loop and some can be stuck for many years and even never come out of it.

But I think the key is to force yourself to start seeing positive feedback no matter how small and insignificant it may seem. Gotta start with baby steps and work your way up. When you know based on previous experience you can achieve and overcome something, you naturally become stronger and gain confidence.

 

[zekko]

I agree that to be a natural, you need that positive feedback loop early on in your life. I had a great family, no complaints there, but my parents were kind of old and weren't as active as many younger parents. Also, their friends didn't have kids my age, so I wasn't really exposed to socializing with my peers very much until I went to school. So I struggled with that early on. I was also too damn skinny so that caused me some problems.

Anyway, I've always had problems with letting rejections roll off my back. I always think about this sort of thing when pickup gurus tell you to go out and collect 100 rejections. I always wonder what getting shot down 100 straight times does to your self esteem. I mean I know it's a numbers game, and those rejections shouldn't matter, but I would be wondering why I got rejected so many times.

I'm not really the kind of guy that women hit on all the time, but for some reason when I invite them out they seem surprised and I've had good success rates. I think I come off as too aloof and indifferent, and girls tend not to think I'm interested in them.

 

[Tictac]

Reversing polarity is not a good way to try and live. It puts whoever tries it in permanent 'fake it 'til you make it' role.

OP essentially says that if you get jacked up (get high confidence) you'll do well. Reality works more like if you're doing well, you get jacked up.

Reality wins! At any point, if you focus on doing well, your confidence will rise and create the positive feedback loop OP so desperately wants. Less true (though not without merit) if you try to increase confidence first in the Hope of doing well.

'Fake it 'til you make it' is like using ether to start a gasoline engine. It will work. But unless the engine is already otherwise ready to function, the engine will stall as soon as the ether (confidence shot) is gone.

Focus on doing well, confidence will always follow.

Focus on confidence, doing well may (or may not) follow.

 

[Partizan]

Good thread and describes me perfectly. Repped.

 

[RedZone]

I really think any negative could be a positive. A few months ago texted a girl wanted to hang withabd she never responded. Instead of dwelling, I realized maybe that's exactly what I needed. To understand it wasn't that bad. It's not the end of anything. If anything the very beginning.

 

[DJFear]

Anyway, I've always had problems with letting rejections roll off my back. I always think about this sort of thing when pickup gurus tell you to go out and collect 100 rejections. I always wonder what getting shot down 100 straight times does to your self esteem. I mean I know it's a numbers game, and those rejections shouldn't matter, but I would be wondering why I got rejected so many times.

.

Yeah its tough. I think its not the best advice for someone who has a low self esteem and confidence. I mean getting shot down 100 times (with out any success) would completely destroy any motivation to continue approaching.

Hate to say it but if a guy has low self esteem and so-so looks, he has to be realistic and go for low hanging fruit ie girls that are average or below average. Even if he doesnt really want them, once he starts to get some positive feedback, can begin moving up slowly in the quality of women.

 

[HowardHughesDicaprio]

Reversing polarity is not a good way to try and live. It puts whoever tries it in permanent 'fake it 'til you make it' role.

OP essentially says that if you get jacked up (get high confidence) you'll do well. Reality works more like if you're doing well, you get jacked up.

Reality wins! At any point, if you focus on doing well, your confidence will rise and create the positive feedback loop OP so desperately wants. Less true (though not without merit) if you try to increase confidence first in the Hope of doing well.

'Fake it 'til you make it' is like using ether to start a gasoline engine. It will work. But unless the engine is already otherwise ready to function, the engine will stall as soon as the ether (confidence shot) is gone.

Focus on doing well, confidence will always follow.

Focus on confidence, doing well may (or may not) follow.

I did not say that at all.

I said to live in the present moment and not think back to the past yet not look too far ahead either.