Keeping a conversation going.

[Messarger]

I've been sarging quite frequently these days, but i've got a problem that leads me to an unsucessful number close. yup, i dont know how to talk to a girl that i just met for more than 10mins.

First i'll get close to her, make eye contact, smile and ice break or opener. Then we'll talk for a short while, but after the opener is discussed, the conversation becomes boring and she loses interest in me. This often results in me not getting her number and/or email, and its really fustrating. I just cant respond in time when she says something, and subconsciously i'll be thinking of a good way to neg her. Then i'll say give a lame answer like "okay" or "thats cool" when i think for too long, until she totally loses interest in me. I'm also not nervous, in fact i fee like i'm in control but for some reason i got this problem.

If thats not the case, our conversartion will still be very boring, although we're talking about something interesting. How do i ensure that a conversation is kept interesting, and how do i come up with good negs in the shortest amount of time?

 

[IceCream]

I dont know if this is just me, but i believe when you try and get a girl's number, it shouldn't take more than 5minutes of "small talk". As you describe it, your openers are fine, that is where you should basically end it. I look at sarging like a movie commercial. In one minute or more (notice the 'good' PUA's usually tell their target that they have to leave soon, and give a 'valid' excuse to make it seem as though they just want an 'innocent' chat). In that time limit you have to make yourself seem "spectacular", to draw attention, to make the "viewier" (the target) want to know more about you.

What do "good" movie commercials have? A hook. (The ice breaker, the "cheesy", or maybe even "mysteriously good" line). An introduction to what the whole theme of the movie is about, (you being interested in the girl, your target, and showing the best of yourself *because first impressions are very important*). A "uniqueness". ( What makes you different from every other chump out there that will try and get this girl? Ex. Your confidence). And of course the closer, (usually a statement that you'd like to spend more time with her in the future, thus TELLING *notice not asking...but TELLING* her to give you her number. Not in a very "commanding" voice, but using the "inner alpha male voice" in you. Ex. "Well I have to get going, it was great talking to you. If you'd give me your phone number that'd be great, maybe I'll call you sometime and we can meet up.").

Thats all it is... Giving your target a little "preview" of how you are. If you present it good, then you will find success in your efforts. Hopefully this will keep you from 'boring' your targets. Sarge on.

 

[LA_Chico]

bro, where in cali are you from?

 

[IceCream]

The O.C.

 

[Messarger]

I dont know if this is just me, but i believe when you try and get a girl's number, it shouldn't take more than 5minutes of "small talk". As you describe it, your openers are fine, that is where you should basically end it. I look at sarging like a movie commercial. In one minute or more (notice the 'good' PUA's usually tell their target that they have to leave soon, and give a 'valid' excuse to make it seem as though they just want an 'innocent' chat). In that time limit you have to make yourself seem "spectacular", to draw attention, to make the "viewier" (the target) want to know more about you.

What do "good" movie commercials have? A hook. (The ice breaker, the "cheesy", or maybe even "mysteriously good" line). An introduction to what the whole theme of the movie is about, (you being interested in the girl, your target, and showing the best of yourself *because first impressions are very important*). A "uniqueness". ( What makes you different from every other chump out there that will try and get this girl? Ex. Your confidence). And of course the closer, (usually a statement that you'd like to spend more time with her in the future, thus TELLING *notice not asking...but TELLING* her to give you her number. Not in a very "commanding" voice, but using the "inner alpha male voice" in you. Ex. "Well I have to get going, it was great talking to you. If you'd give me your phone number that'd be great, maybe I'll call you sometime and we can meet up.").

Thats all it is... Giving your target a little "preview" of how you are. If you present it good, then you will find success in your efforts. Hopefully this will keep you from 'boring' your targets. Sarge on.

This is going to sound like the old Messarger, but at this point in my life i dont know how to exude the confidence in me. I'm not some low esteem, insecure AFC, but when i'm sarging the old AFC in me tends to take place and my body language is just weird. If i can feel it, i bet my target can also.

How do i give a time constrain? I know Mystery and Style talks a lot about it in The Game, but i dont know how to let the target know i wont be holding her up, and at the same time allow me to sarge on her naturally. Could you give me a few examples of time constraints? I know it varies in different situations but perhaps i could work on a few and make it my own.

 

[LA_Chico]

The O.C.

I went to Cal-State Fullerton bro, now I live up in North Hollywood area

 

[GaryUranga]

I think it takes practise and you cant think too much or itll happen, just go with it, its kind of a mindset to find things to talk about

 

[Ice.]

This would be my first post after years and years (under a different user name)..

I don't know what type of opener you're using, but apparently it's doing you justice in bridging the gap between two strangers. Kudos for you.

One common problem that I found happening often was getting stuck on the topic of the opener (ie. jealous girlfriend, whatever kind of indirect opener I would come up with at that time). There's many different types of openers (which I won't take the time to discuss in this post) but I learned to group them into two: indirect and direct openers (both body language-wise and verbal-wise).

Now, whenever I have successful nights out based on indirect openers, it would be because I'm projecting a vibe that, I'm guessing, is so alpha that the women just have to pay attention to me. The key to keeping a conversation going when using indirect openers is escalation.

First, you're in the platonic stage of the conversation. This is basically small-talk sh!t. Juggler says you have about 45 seconds amount of time before whatever you're talking about starts to get weird and you have to escalate (my estimate would be about 3 exchanges of dialogue between the two of you) to the personal level. The personal level is when you're talking to them on some comfort/rapport sh!t.

Or, your problem could be in maintaining the conversation for more than 5-10 minutes. The main problem with this, is that this is the stage which defines whether or not a guy is strictly on the platonic level or not. Key: Statement Of Interest, or SOI. Another escalation on the stage of conversation. You're basically rewarding her for the effort she's putting in the conversation. Juggler is an advocate of somehow using the word "sexy" to describe her during night game, but I'm playing around with different types of SOIs ("I find you absolutely fun to talk to" "That's so incredibly cute" etc. etc.).

Whatever stage your problem is laying in, in my opinion the key to it is just proper escalation.

If you want examples of how to give time constraints, well again they could be implied both verbally or non-verbally. You could go and say, "I'll only be a minute, but..." or "I have to get back to my friends, but..." or something to that effect. Or you could position your body language to as if you're about to leave anytime. Kind of like when you're passing a stranger on the street, and you decide to ask him/her the time. You two are side by side, and there's no further agenda but to ask the time. It appears that once you are given what you need, you'll be well off on your way.

I don't believe in false time constraints, really.. If I'm having a great time in the conversation with the girl, I'll keep on doing so. It's so much harder to "recover" from an indirect/false-time constraint approach, as opposed to going direct. That's just me though.

Good luck!

 

[Void]

This would be my first post after years and years (under a different user name)..

I don't know what type of opener you're using, but apparently it's doing you justice in bridging the gap between two strangers. Kudos for you.

One common problem that I found happening often was getting stuck on the topic of the opener (ie. jealous girlfriend, whatever kind of indirect opener I would come up with at that time). There's many different types of openers (which I won't take the time to discuss in this post) but I learned to group them into two: indirect and direct openers (both body language-wise and verbal-wise).

Now, whenever I have successful nights out based on indirect openers, it would be because I'm projecting a vibe that, I'm guessing, is so alpha that the women just have to pay attention to me. The key to keeping a conversation going when using indirect openers is escalation.

First, you're in the platonic stage of the conversation. This is basically small-talk sh!t. Juggler says you have about 45 seconds amount of time before whatever you're talking about starts to get weird and you have to escalate (my estimate would be about 3 exchanges of dialogue between the two of you) to the personal level. The personal level is when you're talking to them on some comfort/rapport sh!t.

Or, your problem could be in maintaining the conversation for more than 5-10 minutes. The main problem with this, is that this is the stage which defines whether or not a guy is strictly on the platonic level or not. Key: Statement Of Interest, or SOI. Another escalation on the stage of conversation. You're basically rewarding her for the effort she's putting in the conversation. Juggler is an advocate of somehow using the word "sexy" to describe her during night game, but I'm playing around with different types of SOIs ("I find you absolutely fun to talk to" "That's so incredibly cute" etc. etc.).

Whatever stage your problem is laying in, in my opinion the key to it is just proper escalation.

If you want examples of how to give time constraints, well again they could be implied both verbally or non-verbally. You could go and say, "I'll only be a minute, but..." or "I have to get back to my friends, but..." or something to that effect. Or you could position your body language to as if you're about to leave anytime. Kind of like when you're passing a stranger on the street, and you decide to ask him/her the time. You two are side by side, and there's no further agenda but to ask the time. It appears that once you are given what you need, you'll be well off on your way.

I don't believe in false time constraints, really.. If I'm having a great time in the conversation with the girl, I'll keep on doing so. It's so much harder to "recover" from an indirect/false-time constraint approach, as opposed to going direct. That's just me though.

Good luck!

are you hot ice? or whatever the name was. anyways dude you sound familiar.

ps that post is right on

 

[ryannath]

Contrary to sosuave belief, neg hits are pretty gay and only guys that feel like a girl is out of his league will neg hit a girl. Think about it, if you felt a girl was on your level, would you neg hit her? I bet not. Don't worry about neg hits. I don't wanna say be yourself, but be your confident, out going self, that doesn't use gay tactics or neg hits or **** like that.

 

[eminence]

Contrary to sosuave belief, neg hits are pretty gay and only guys that feel like a girl is out of his league will neg hit a girl. Think about it, if you felt a girl was on your level, would you neg hit her? I bet not. Don't worry about neg hits. I don't wanna say be yourself, but be your confident, out going self, that doesn't use gay tactics or neg hits or **** like that.

yeah I agree with this guy...now that i'm actually putting myself out there I find that neg hits suck. The problem with them is that most guys can't control themselves, at least I know I can't. I can think of hilarious neg hits all day and thats the problem, I just overuse them and it drives the girl away because she ends up thinking i'm not attracted to her at all.

 

[Messarger]

Do you guys know of any way to make the target ask you questions? I find myself asking her so many questions that i'm interviewing her instead.

Me: So how do you like elton john?
Her: Fine.
Me: Do you think he being gay is surpsring?
Her: I dont know.
Me: Who else do you listen to?
Her: No one.
Me: What about heavy metal? Some of the artists are good.
Her: Maybe
Me: Can you say anything else besides 3 word phrases?
Her: I dont know.
Me: Fuvk off.

 

[Ice.]

Do you guys know of any way to make the target ask you questions? I find myself asking her so many questions that i'm interviewing her instead.

Me: So how do you like elton john?
Her: Fine.
Me: Do you think he being gay is surpsring?
Her: I dont know.
Me: Who else do you listen to?
Her: No one.
Me: What about heavy metal? Some of the artists are good.
Her: Maybe
Me: Can you say anything else besides 3 word phrases?
Her: I dont know.
Me: Fuvk off.

The key is "I" statements.

Prevent the interviewer-interviewee vibe. Ask a question, and if they don't respond positively, say something about the topic yourself. Oh yeah, it would also help tremendously if the question cannot be answered with a one-word reply (people value things they work for, including conversation topics), but obviously you can't do this ALL the time.

Ex:

You ever been to Australia?
Nope.
Ah. I was just there last weekend to do some surfing with my boys. I found it incredibly great how people there are just blah blah blah blah..

Most cases, the girl will say something of substance back. She's probably gonna ask you, "Oh, you surf?" To which you can reward with, "Yeah. Ever tried surfing before?" to which she can reply to "Yes" (you ask her about her experience if she does) or "No" (you do another statement about how you love the beach, etc. etc.) and the conversation will go on and on from there..

(This is just an example conversation. I don't surf, and neither have I ever been to Australia, but it's the best I could come up with on the fly. I hope it make sense though.)

Just follow the format: question-statement, question-statement. And if she gives you effort, reward and relate to what she said. This is how you build rapport.

Don't pay attention to the age-old adage that you have to ask women a lot of questions... that's how you get the interview vibe. It's a two-way street, remember.

-------

And Void, nope... I posted under a completely different user name back in the day. I was a member of the site during its golden days of AD, Pook, ATNA, etc. etc. and re-registered when the forums crashed in 2000, but now I don't know what the password to my old account was (it's been 2 years since I last visited haha).

 

[Messarger]

I'm no expert at this but randomly approaching a girl and asking about Elton John and whether she is surprised he is gay seems like a really weird thing to say to a girl you don't know.

That conversation was just an example i thought of on the spot. Lol, this kind of conversations happen after the opener. I dont use Elton John as an opener.