Jealousy

[bukowski_merit]

I believe this emotion should be at or near the top of the emotions everyone should learn to do better in controlling.

It is really a plague to your relationship if you start to feel it. And unfortunately most men do not have control over this emotion. (i do more than most men, but do not have complete control over it)

There's 3 main things it does (speaking from personal experience and reading tons of threads on here and other boards)

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1) It makes it hard to leave someone who's obviously treating you wrong. Or it makes it hard for a guy to breakup with a girl and do the whole "non-contact" thing. Why? Fear that she'll just forget you and go out and ftom (fvck ten other men). I've many times seen guys in threads say, "but if i do that - then she'll just find a new guy."

And, women know this! This is why you'll sometimes hear her talk about guys at work. This is why she'll talk about all the guys who hit on her (even if she presents it as a "im disgusted" things).

A LOT of men would do so much better with the "no contact" or "breaking up" thing if they KNEW that the girl would cry her eyes out for weeks and beg for him back. But, they know there's a good chance that she'll be out partying with new guys next weekend.

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2) Jealousy can also make you start under-performing in sex. It can cause you to lose desire. It can consume you in such a way - that you can't even perform at all.

If a woman can bring another man (or men) into the frame you share - she can begin to make you wonder about them all the time. You will begin to focus much less on seducing her and getting her in the mood and much more in to what's been going on with her and the guy(s). The result will be less sexual desire from you to her. And less sexual desire from her to you (even more so if she knows you're jealous; unless she's a sicko that gets off from making men jealous).

If you start off with a relationship that's filled with jealousy on your part - if it somehow last a year - i'd bet anything that the sex is almost dead by the years end. (strangely: the opposite is true if you're making women jealous; but we sexes react differently to emotions.)

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3) It can cause you to show anger. To show that she can get to you. There's few other things that are so useful in a woman's arsenal of tricks. Once she knows that she can get under your skin - she will gain an infinite amount of power over you. Women are taught that they can "break" a guy by making him jealous (there's magazine articles and books written on this stuff).

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note: A quick search of google for "how to make a guy jealous" resulted in 536000 articles. A search for "how to make a woman jealous" only resulted in 138000 articles. What's with the overwhelmingly higher amount of articles for women??? well, obviously women search for that kind of stuff more.

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So what can we do? I do 2 things...

1) I try to provide the best sexual experience the girl has ever received - just being her best or one of her best - will relieve a lot of jealousy because you know it'll be hard for her to find as good or better. It will also drastically reduce the chance she will cheat on you if you are in a relationship. Guys don't want to admit this, and i've seen guys argue that sexual performance has no baring on cheating.... But, that is nonsense. As a guy who's been with more "taken" women than most guys have been with women total - i can say across the board - all of them were not being pleased in bed.... But, that's a different subject.... I'm just saying - if you ROCK HER WORLD every time you touch the sheets - you will feel better about everything when she brings up that "nice guy" from work.

2) I completely mock women when they try take the "get you jealous" route with me. Even calling them out completely. I'll say, "wow, it's a little early in the relationship to be trying to make me jealous. but it's cute =)" and they'll do the whole, "jealous? no i was just.... blah blah" thing.... But again, there's something about just mocking a woman when she does this... and completely calling her out - that makes it a lot less serious....

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Just opening a discussion on what is the biggest problem facing some mens relationships. And also one of the biggest reason for men murdering men in the world!

Would love to discuss different ways in which you each handle this emotion.

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

2) I completely mock women when they try take the "get you jealous" route with me. Even calling them out completely. I'll say, "wow, it's a little early in the relationship to be trying to make me jealous. but it's cute =)" and they'll do the whole, "jealous? no i was just.... blah blah" thing.... But again, there's something about just mocking a woman when she does this... and completely calling her out - that makes it a lot less serious....

That's a good way to deal with it. Making things "cute" instead of you being threatened disarms that sort of thing and she'll move on to something else to test or (try to) mess with you and gain power.

Regarding this subject in general:

It's a part of testing as well as probing to assure herself that you like her a lot. Beyond that, she'll do it if you're making her jealous and guys do that all the time and don't see how it's happening. Don't EVER let other women get away with stuff that your girl can't. For instance, if another girl keeps interrupting you, stand up for yourself and say "you're being rude" or something similar. Other girls getting away with that means they're being treated with higher status than your GF as well as yourself and she doesn't even logically think this out, she just "feels" a strong threat and gets very upset inside. Don't do this stuff and she's less likely to do it to you and have a justification (somehow he's making me jealous, PAYBACK TIME) in her mind to make it ok.

Almost all men make that mistake and you'll stand out like a beacon in a social situation if you ignore/stop bad behavior you wouldn't let your GF do like if some girl pops her top at a bar, don't be whooping it up with the rest of the guys, really. When a girl does that lots of women get pissed (they'll cloak it often!) because THEY don't get to do that, and no matter how nice they treat their boyfriend in 2 seconds he's lusting after new/shiny/trampy....so, ignore it and chat up the other ladies (or your GF if you have one), you'll be catch #1 while the chumps are busy drooling. Imagine it being YOUR girlfriend acting like a ***** if you're still trying to learn how to control your thoughts and feelings. Really, this is PURE GOLD and has a huge impact when you're the only guy who has self-control in a situation and are displaying unconscious "turned off" body language by behavior like that. We as men don't fully realize how very strong subtle body language can effect women. Women will be much more likely to trust you in general as well, even if they've previously never talked with you. There won't be "if he's drooling over ms big boobs around me, what would he do if I were his GF and not around to stop him from.....?" type feelings.

But, back from wandering off into the reverse situation:

I don't get jealous, but then again, I'm not doing things around women to provoke them and I find "cute guy" talk extremely boring and include it to be grouped with "girlfriends talk". So, as soon as a new girl first starts messing with that, I'll just say "I'm not your girlfriend" and smile/yawn. After a few times if she doesn't stop I'll start replying with variations of "yeah, it's funny, I just remembered seeing a new cute girl today....." and then just stop talking and remember sex with some old girlfriend. I'm convinced that the fact that I very rarely mention other girls....only when it is absolutely necessary to the conversation PLUS her radar clanging really loudly when her mind automatically she reads sexual body language but it only happens when SHE brings up cute guys, not me in general pondering other women.

That stops that right in it's tracks unless that's really part of her personality, stirring up trouble and getting off on conflict. I'm not her girlfriend, not going to play "blowout fights and have sex" games, and she needs to learn to respect that or she'll be dumped very quickly. I'll semi-passively trigger the feeling in her when she's trying to do it but I won't get into an arms race, I'll get rid of her if it becomes a pattern.

Another reason I don't get jealous, even if I see a girl "heat up" a bit when she sees a guy, is that women can't help that, attraction is different for them, it has nothing to do with me, girls are built that way and that's why it's pointless to tell them she's the only girl I have sexual feelings with because she sees attraction from a woman's perspective so she doesn't realize men can actually decide they're attracted or not to any particular woman on a moment's notice and control it if they gain enough confidence and practice ways to sidetrack that process. So, don't ever try to convince her verbally, she will believe you're outright lying and it will make her think about it more. If I see my girl or even girls I know switch up body language when a guy triggers that I'll bust her on it in a fun way or give her "that look" so she'll be a bit embarrassed because I'm observant and she "got caught" (this also keeps her in check that I'm observant, I've studied body language for long enough to know what's up, they always think I'm at least partially a mind reader ) plus she'll see I'm not threatened. It's "cute".

Men who haven't listened to a lot of women's conversations with each other when they think men aren't paying attention don't realize that all girls are like that, get over it. They have guys they'd sleep with if there were absolutely no consequences and she could just go back to being the perfect girlfriend afterwards with no fear of his radar going off. Every once in a while they just see a guy and are a really floored by it, instantly, they can't learn to control those feelings. Blame her DNA, not her. It's her body doing that and as long as you're extremely important to her and she knows for sure you'll dump her if you suspect it, no second chances, she won't consciously start trying to form a plan to actually do the guy.. It'll make her feel guilty and like she's not worthy to start to purposely plan like that. If she does, well then the man failed in not making her realize the consequence would be losing him...she lost her respect, figured she could either deny it if he heard rumors and he'd want to believe her, or drag him into a blowout fight and try to trigger the guy into saying something nasty and changing the subject, or whatever. Game Over in any case.

Lastly, I'm not afraid of losing a girl, and that's a primary factor in jealousy, fear of loss (outside threats to a relationship). I've been around the block a few times and realize that there are THREE THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED MILLION OTHER GIRLS ON THIS PLANET. It's not that I'm not attached or unfeeling, it's that a girl is not an object for filling a hole in my self-esteem, so there isn't that gut-wretching feeling of "oh no, if she wants something else then i'm a failure, blah blah blah, I've got to start kissing her ass and doing every single thing I can to make her love me and then she'll never leave". That's not real love, that's NEED, and that's a big part of why girls lose respect, get turned off, and go to another man.

 

[Ease]

Brilliant thread, one of the topics that interest me most.

Jealousy is an emotion that stems from fear of losing the other person. Fear of losing = Insecurity. Jealousy is a killer, it kills your own confidence by forcing insecurity in yourself, and it kills her interest level as she sees weakness.

Its used by every woman out there, its subconciously built into them. They will **** test you from the start to see if you get jealous. If you pass the **** test (by not reacting and showing self confidence and no FEAR), then she gains attraction. If you fail (show ANY emotion WHATSOEVER), she will see weakness and lose attraction.

But its not just a **** test. Like said in OP, its crazy how women are born with a talent to MANIPULATE men with jealousy. Once you show 1% of weakness, and she sees that you react to her jealousy **** tests, she knows she has power over you. Things then can go down hill if you keep up the jealousy.

Its not always a 'manipulating tool' or a dirty '**** test', girls do it subconciously for attention. If your game is tight and she is dying for your attention and affection, she'll try to make you jealous to see if she can get a reaction from you and get validation.

Like I said, Jealousy stems from insecurity, triggered by fear of losing the woman, or the fear of her showing affection to another man. Its all about self confidence and strong inner game. A real man never gets jealous because he knows she loves him and isnt going anywhere. However even the real man must be careful not to be caught off-guard.

Key thing is: Never give a reaction.

When your faced with it, dismantle the situation and understand the reason behind why you feel jealous, and then remember that you are a Man and dont give a sh*t.


By the way, by all means, use it against her. It works twice as well on a woman than it does on us. Nothing triggers attraction faster that jealous rage.

 

[Legionarius]

I actually became VERY good at controlling jealousy. Another thing I do *since we have computers with facebook, myspace etc) you CAN'T look at what they're doing etc etc as hard as it might be in the end its easier. Altho the last girl I spoke to for 8months, she kept chatting with her ex on the side saying he's depressed and had no one to go to etc...but she kept doing it and honestly I wasn't about to get dropped so I dropped her...didn't show her emotion or contact for like 2 weeks and she went off on me, saying I didn't care about her etc

 

[bukowski_merit]

Nice responses from all. Glad i got some good dialog.

I'm not doing things around women to provoke them and I find "cute guy" talk extremely boring and include it to be grouped with "girlfriends talk". So, as soon as a new girl first starts messing with that, I'll just say "I'm not your girlfriend

Cool. Very much like the "im not your psychologist" thing if she's complaining/venting too much.

after a few times if she doesn't stop I'll start replying with variations of "yeah, it's funny, I just remembered seeing a new cute girl today....."

that is a tactic i've actually read them (magazines) suggest women do if a man brings up another woman around them. makes sound psychological sense, but me personally - i don't like to use the same tactic back on a woman that she's using on me. but that's just a personal preference.

That stops that right in it's tracks unless that's really part of her personality, stirring up trouble and getting off on conflict.

Yeah, as i mentioned - sickos! (a term i picked up from franco).... There are women that get off on arguments and creating drama. Many women in fact! Especially in modern society.... I have been with many of these women (cheaters are mostly sickos) and i am confident that without professional help - they cannot be fixed or "broken".... you can pass every $hit test in the world - and you will only amuse them. I was in a MLTR with one for two years... And she finally broke me one day... She got what she wanted... She had been telling me about this guy who was "always hitting on her" and it was, "annoying" and asking for pointers on how to get rid of him (as if women need pointers on such things)... "restraining order; sexual harassment charges. best way in the world" i said in a halfway joking way acting mostly amused.... somehow i got involved in the conversation some... and finally told her to just tell him in a flat out way that she's not interested and never will be (the "never will be" is important). So she pulls out her cell phone and shows me a text message exchange between him and her... I should have never let it get to that point... But she was trying to prove that she wasn't leading him on.... Well... she was... and very badly.... He had asked her to come over... and almost all her responses were something like "oh no. i can't do that. that might lead to trouble"..................................... i was enraged, and she got what she wanted.... i was enraged because she had sucked me in and i knew it.... i was enraged because she was acting like she wasn't leading him on and she was!.... i was enraged because she was acting dumbfounded by my reaction.... after 2 years... she finally got what she wanted.... And when we fvcked that night - she had never been wetter (sicko) and she was really acting like i was stabbing her with a butcher knife (fvcking sicko!)..... i had to end it after that night... i had to.... she had won... it was a 2 year game of her trying to break the "unbreakable"... and i broke lol.... even called her a hoe... something i have never done to any woman (call them a name)

it's pointless to tell them she's the only girl I have sexual feelings with because she sees attraction from a woman's perspective so she doesn't realize men can actually decide they're attracted or not to any particular woman on a moment's notice and control it if they gain enough confidence and practice ways to sidetrack that process

Very sound theory. Women don't EVER believe me when i see someone from my past and say, "im not attracted to her anymore"... they'll say, "how can you not be attracted to someone you shared something with?"..... Like you said - i can just shut down attraction once i want to. Women on the other hand - i don't believe that they can. They most likely harbor attraction for just about every ex they've had. This doesn't have a whole lot to do with the subject, but none-the less i'm glad to read this so i can think on it some more.

If she does, well then the man failed in not making her realize the consequence would be losing him...she lost her respect, figured she could either deny it if he heard rumors and he'd want to believe her, or drag him into a blowout fight and try to trigger the guy into saying something nasty and changing the subject, or whatever. Game Over in any case.

Interesting. I know women who have cheated on their wealthy husbands and end up getting caught or end up telling them. And i do not know one of them who was divorced because of it! Cant you imagine the feeling the woman must feel to tell a man that she cheated on him, and have him stick around afterward? (and still stick it in her) She must feel like the queen of the world!!!!

But yes, there are far too many men in this world who will not show a woman that there are consequences for crossing him. I wouldn't go as far as to say that if she cheats on him - it's ALWAYS a case of it being his fault... in some cases - the woman just is not of any quality to fear lose.... no matter how valuable the genes she may end up with are...

Lastly, I'm not afraid of losing a girl, and that's a primary factor in jealousy, fear of loss (outside threats to a relationship).

Yes, self-confidence will not only get you above the fear of losing a woman. It will also - in most cases - make them not even consider losing you an option.

its crazy how women are born with a talent to MANIPULATE men with jealousy.

Not only born with it - but they also have unlimited resources at their finger tips to learn how to do it even better (books, magazines, and talks with girlfriends/family members). I was once a football game and there was a mother and a daughter sitting behind me, and i sware the mother was giving the woman tips and how to get her boyfriend to do more around the house. AND THEY WERE ALL MANIPULATIVE TIPS! Some people think what we talk about here is how to manipulate women - but i believe it's more - how to mold ourselves into better people... when it comes to life and women.

A real man never gets jealous because he knows she loves him and isnt going anywhere. However even the real man must be careful not to be caught off-guard.

True, i have been caught off guard or just finally fed up with BS a few times over the last 5 years or so.... and let the emotions run free... i almost always know im fvcking up when it's happening... and there's really nothing worse than knowing you're saying the wrong stuff and reacting the wrong way to a S*** test and still not being able to pull back...... I do believe that i have only done it when i was done with the girl anyway...

Key thing is: Never give a reaction.

:yes:

Another thing I do *since we have computers with facebook, myspace etc) you CAN'T look at what they're doing etc etc as hard as it might be in the end its easier.

Interesting that you bring up facebook and myspace... I was just reading an article that the FBI believes that over the next 10-20 years - the number of crimes of passion (jealousy rages resulting most of the time in death) committed by a man or female against their loved one BECAUSE of INTERNET/SOCIAL NETWORKING SITES will increase over 1500%!!!! There's a few murders here and there over something someone said on facebook to another man or something (and the husband sees it and loses control), but i too can see this becoming a HUGE problem as more and more people come to sites like facebook and with inventions such as keystroke recorders....

 

[bukowski_merit]

I have a big problem with jealousy, I'm fairly certain this caused a massive loss in attraction for my ex-gf... can you guys recommend a step by step program to desensitize yourself to jealousy. Would appreciate it very much

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas!

Honestly, i grew up in a home where my step dad beat my mom at least once a month.
I was also physically bullied from 6th-8th grades badly...

The bullying stopped around the same time as my mom divorcing my step-dad (just in time for high school)... BUT what i got from it is an insane ability to shut down emotionally. I can even shut myself off from even feeling emotions inside. Doesn't mean they aren't there.... I just have very good control over them.

That's why i know if someone can get to me - they've done a d@mn good job!

And yes, im very good at poker because of this :yes:

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Because im not a guru or someone who can really help you here - im not going to offer much advice. Maybe someone can come with a much better answer to help you. I'm mainly just explaining how i can do what i do - not really something you can replicate lol

But i'd say - don't EVER give all your emotions to a woman. And don't ever take anything seriously that they say.... treat everything as a test... and learn to enjoy playing games with her tests....treat it as a game and an experiment.... and at the end of the day - you're a damn human and you will make human mistakes.... just recognize when it's happening and do your best to grow from it.

 

[returningchamp]

Yeah, this is a real weakness for me. What sucks about it is that once a woman knows this will get to you - she'll keep going back to it whenever she feels the need to press your buttons!

Like, i dated this girl once who would always bring up other guys. And i'd be like "WHAT THE FVCK! I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO STOP DOING THAT!" and she'd use the whole "i'm just trying to make conversation thing. i hate how jealous of a person you are!".... But deep down i think she loved it!!!

But definitely something i need to work on...

 

[ThatMysteriousGuy]

Yeah, this is a real weakness for me. What sucks about it is that once a woman knows this will get to you - she'll keep going back to it whenever she feels the need to press your buttons!

Like, i dated this girl once who would always bring up other guys. And i'd be like "WHAT THE FVCK! I THOUGHT I TOLD YOU TO STOP DOING THAT!" and she'd use the whole "i'm just trying to make conversation thing. i hate how jealous of a person you are!".... But deep down i think she loved it!!!

But definitely something i need to work on...

Rule #2 with women (very rarely violate): Don't tell women what they are allowed to do. Only violate that during emergency "man stuff" situations (not an argument!) where a woman flipping the fark out causing a problem. Like, your child has just broken his leg, then yelling "calm the fvck down so we can deal with this". That's ok because you rarely bark orders and it'll snap her out of it. She'll appreciate that. Really, because she'll just be more stunned instead of mainly flipping the fark out about her child and you can take care of the situation.

There are ways around orders. Like don't say "stop leaving cups on the table without coasters", say "if we use the coasters for cups, we won't damage the table". If you use the first statement, it WILL get filed in her database and when she gets in a bad mood with you'll wake up one day to 3 cups on the table without coasters and you'll be irritated. It's not weak to communicate like that. The first is something she'd hear from her mom or dad when she was a little kid. The second is a neutral, fact type of statement when dealing with an adult.

You can use that as a red herring though. If you don't care about cups on the table without coasters, pretend it bugs you a bit. Then, when something's bothering her you'll know it long before SHE knows you know it.

That's not a head game. It's like having a Check Oil indicator installed in your relationship that only you know about.

I'll tell you a true thing, a woman who has to use her own detective skills to find out what's acceptable and what's not will actually do far less bad things than good. All girls love puzzles/mysteries and they'll happily keep busy with them most of the time if you don't sidetrack the process by giving her orders in order to protect your weak spots. Don't hand her knives and point to where they need to be stuck.

When a girl first asks me what I like/don't like (regarding people, not movies or whatever) I reply "I don't like bullshait going on around me" and leave it at that. She'll try things as well as watch how I interact with other people to figure things out. Bust on, ignore, or encourage behaviors as necessary and if she's good for you and you're reasonable, it'll work out so you both get what you want. That's it, "don't do X" will bite you in the ass every single time.

Women would really rather be experiencing mystery and anticipation than playing power games which always have the same ending.

It's true. Scout's Honor.

 

[thedude4242]

good post thatmysteriousguy

 

[martinM.]

By the way, by all means, use it against her. It works twice as well on a woman than it does on us. Nothing triggers attraction faster that jealous rage.

Agreed. Women use it so well because they are aware how effective it is. Meaning when they are jealous it's about 10xs more intense to them than it is to us. i might be wrong, but i think people usually "attack" "manipluate" with their own weaknesses, because they know first hand how it effects or hurts them.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

martin makes a very good point. While women are supposed to be the emotional masters of the universe, you've probably noticed that they don't handle jealousy very well. It is a potent tool of DJing, but use it with caution. If she suspects you of overtly trying to make her jealous, the game is up.