Jealousy Dynamics

[Sinistar]

I was just catching up on this thread : (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130584) where PTC mentioned that his ex was getting back with the last guy. From what I read, he wasn't all that m!ffed. So that got me to thinking. I remember at least two times in my past where the girl went back to someone else. I have no recollection of being jealous. Just the normal hurt/grief sh!t that goes along with the supply being permanently cut off. Almost as if her falling back to an ex is acceptable between two guys???

So why is it exactly that guys are less likely to be jealous, angry or hurt when their HB ends it to return to someone (in their past) instead of dropping the guy like a bad habit to be with a new guy?

Could it be that we deem ourselves better than the ex because she dumped him for us in the first place. And therefore we rate a new guy better than us because he pulled what we did before.

If it were just about the physical part (ie steady supply of s3x) then shouldn't a guy be jealous no matter who it is (ex or new guy).

Or is it that we've implicitly accepted that she's been [intimate] with someone else and we never bother to think ahead that she might be with others after us thus (thus it's a shock to the system, ego, etc).

I would have to think this sort of thing is yet another effect of media/social programming (ie nuture vs nature). But I can't put my finger on it.

Any opinions or theories?

 

[PTC]

I was just catching up on this thread : (http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=130584) where PTC mentioned that his ex was getting back with the last guy. From what I read, he wasn't all that m!ffed. So that got me to thinking. I remember at least two times in my past where the girl went back to someone else. I have no recollection of being jealous. Just the normal hurt/grief sh!t that goes along with the supply being permanently cut off. Almost as if her falling back to an ex is acceptable between two guys???

So why is it exactly that guys are less likely to be jealous, angry or hurt when their HB ends it to return to someone (in their past) instead of dropping the guy like a bad habit to be with a new guy?

Could it be that we deem ourselves better than the ex because she dumped him for us in the first place. And therefore we rate a new guy better than us because he pulled what we did before.

If it were just about the physical part (ie steady supply of s3x) then shouldn't a guy be jealous no matter who it is (ex or new guy).

Or is it that we've implicitly accepted that she's been [intimate] with someone else and we never bother to think ahead that she might be with others after us thus (thus it's a shock to the system, ego, etc).

I would have to think this sort of thing is yet another effect of media/social programming (ie nuture vs nature). But I can't put my finger on it.

Any opinions or theories?

Well,...I'm not going to say that I'm not jealous but I do have this empty feeling in my stomach knowing that she is with somebody else now. I don't know if thats just because I'm angry or hurt,...I don't know. But I saw this coming and I knew before I even caught them together that first time that she still had feelings for him. She just snowballed me into believing the opposite.

Plus I know, along with every other one of our friends (small town!) that it won't last. So I guess thats why it hurts less. I'm just gonna sit back and get my life back together before like it was before this toxic b!tch destroyed it and wait for hers to fail again.

One comment I would like to add about this whole topic about when a girl tells you she is a b!tch you better run! Before this chick and I were actually seeing each other, the first time she cut my hair she asked me if I had ever heard of Buckcherry. Well this was almost two years ago when they first hit it big and I told her no. She told me, and even wrote it down on her card, for me to go find the song Crazy B!tch by Buckcherry and listen to it. I asked her why and she just said, "Just listen to it". This girl was crazy and she liked to fvck all the time!! RED FLAG!!!!
Of course there's nothing wrong with a girl that like to fvck all the time and is crazy just don't ever date them or let them mind fvck you!!

Sorry to stray off the topic Sinistar but I just wanted to add that!!

 

[Desdinova]

she asked me if I had ever heard of Buckcherry. Well this was almost two years ago when they first hit it big and I told her no.

That made me check the date of this thread. Buckcherry's been around for a long time already.

But back to the topic...

The situation I found myself in was after she told me all the incredibly horrible things about her ex, I believed she was dumb, stupid, and retarded for going back to him. It's like she deserves to have a 5hitty relationship with an a55hole if that's what she really wants. Then I'd hope that she's eventually sorry that she let go of a great guy like me and come crawling back.

But how dare she fvck some new guy I don't know anything about!

I think that may be it - knowing about her ex's behavior over not knowing some new guy's behavior. The new guy could have lots of money, a bigger d1ck, a nice car, where as her ex was a penniless bum.

 

[Sinistar]

Sorry to stray off the topic Sinistar but I just wanted to add that!!

...no bid deal dude. However I'll take this chance to demonstrate something. The majority of your post was more 2nd order contact with her. By that I mean you are communicating about her which means you are allowing your mind to go there in the first place. This contact by proxy can go on for years if you don't lock onto it and shift your thoughts elsewhere. That being said, it probably didn't help any when I used one of your posts in my example. Sorry about that dude!

But back to the topic...

The situation I found myself in was after she told me all the incredibly horrible things about her ex, I believed she was dumb, stupid, and retarded for going back to him. It's like she deserves to have a 5hitty relationship with an a55hole if that's what she really wants. Then I'd hope that she's eventually sorry that she let go of a great guy like me and come crawling back.

Interesting - a rescuer/savior vibe going there. Now I'm wondering how many books, movies and TV shows have reinforced this behaviour pattern in guys (and women).

But how dare she fvck some new guy I don't know anything about!

I think that may be it - knowing about her ex's behavior over not knowing some new guy's behavior. The new guy could have lots of money, a bigger d1ck, a nice car, where as her ex was a penniless bum.

...and throw in the fear of the unknown. The new guy just might be *better*. That wreacks havoc with an insecure guys's ego. It's all a mystery, none of the new variables are known. So the mind is free to wander, fill in the blanks and do it's own damage.

Jealousy sure is strange. If you have some knowledge about her ex and she goes back it triggers one set of emotions. Yet if she moves on to the unknown, that mammalian brain can take over in an entire different way.

Maybe there's a bit of territoriality going on here too. When you start a relationship with a woman, it is just assumed that part of the territory is her ex. Reading into that a bit is an implied frame and ownership (ie 'this girl is mine'). So when she reverts (goes back) its territory you never really owned. But when the new guy enters the game, he's encrouching on your territory. I guess that would play more towards nature than nuture?

 

[jophil28]

I think that we (subconsciously ) conclude that her leaving him meant that he was not a high quality guy in the first place. When she swung over to YOU the thought is created that YOU must be better than he was because she dumped him and selected YOU.
Then if she returns to him it feels like she is "settling for that loser again " . To me this evokes thoughts or an iimage of a woman branch swinging BACKWARD and DOWNWARD. She went back to the consolation prize. That makes her somewhat of a loser too.

I think that I emotionally then conclude that she and he are both below my standards and so I do not have any real sense of loss. Ergo, no Jealousy.

Just the way I feel ..



> im

 

[Victory Unlimited]

JOPHIL28...

Great way to break it down for the troops, dude.

 

[kingwilliam]

I've never had a girl go back to a previous guy before, but I can tell you that I sure have been jealous in the past. To me that's a hard emotion to stifle, even though we know it is poisonous to our personality.

I think I have grown out of it now thank God.

 

[armadon]

I think that we (subconsciously ) conclude that her leaving him meant that he was not a high quality guy in the first place. When she swung over to YOU the thought is created that YOU must be better than he was because she dumped him and selected YOU.
Then if she returns to him it feels like she is "settling for that loser again " . To me this evokes thoughts or an iimage of a woman branch swinging BACKWARD and DOWNWARD. She went back to the consolation prize. That makes her somewhat of a loser too.

I think that I emotionally then conclude that she and he are both below my standards and so I do not have any real sense of loss. Ergo, no Jealousy.

Just the way I feel ..



> im

Yo this is good man. It seems like you just being an awsome person makes them realize they can't hang with you and they go back to being with an equal, ie the ex boyfriend.

Just last year I had a chick say "why are you with me?" like saying she wasn't good enough for me. I knew it was over right then and she would go find someone of equal value to her.

 

[PTC]

I think that I emotionally then conclude that she and he are both below my standards and so I do not have any real sense of loss. Ergo, no Jealousy.

Just the way I feel ..

Great point!!

I think who you date is a direct reflection of yourself. Date someone below your standards and they, your friends and yourself view you as such.

 

[jophil28]

Just last year I had a chick say "why are you with me?" like saying she wasn't good enough for me. I knew it was over right then and she would go find someone of equal value to her.

A woman needs constant reassurance in the first few months (that you are not going to leave her )
"Why are you with me" ..can be an enquiry about what you like about her (and in the same convo you may reveal what you do not like ) Your open acknowledgement that there are qualities that you LIKE about her is very comforting to a woman. She already knows that you like her by being with her and when you tell her WHY you are with her you validate her and her womanliness and her ability to HOLD onto you. I do not nececessarily see this as a statement that the end is near.
THe question is predicated on a combination of insecurity and curiosity. Women are ALWAYS seeking info about you .Emotional, financial, social and so on.
NOtice how they will ask you about what went wrong with your last LTR ?
They are compulsive gatherers of relationship info.

My 2cents ( that 2,64 cents in Australian $)

 

[Phyzzle]

I've never had a woman go back to the ex with me, either. Apparrently, this is pretty common for a lot of guys . . .

But hey, I'm sometimes amazed at what STOPS me from feeling jealous. I once found out that an ex had cheated on me with 2 guys before the breakup, and I was relieved (!?)

You see, when a woman leaves you for a new man, that means her feelings judged him to be a better man than you.

But when a woman get drunk and sleeps around, it's not a reflection of you. It just means she's a slut. Nothing personal.

Getting dumped hurts because of your EGO, not because of territorial baby-making matters.

So I agree with Jophil. It's not that your gf belongs to her exes, it's just that you know that by dropping you for an ex, she's going backwards in life, and setting up herself (AND her chump guy) for suffering in the future. Obviously, any guy who takes her back is pretty much doomed to being crushed in the future.

 

[Sinistar]

I definitely agree with the later posts - EGO plays a big role here. If a woman swings backward & downward (I like that jophil!) it doesn't really damage the EGO because we *perceive* it to be backward/downward. And when she swings someplace new she appears to be leaving the current guy behind thus his EGO very often takes a huge swack because he tends to quickly *perceive* her move as a move ahead or towards something better.

So I agree with Jophil. It's not that your gf belongs to her exes, it's just that you know that by dropping you for an ex, she's going backwards in life, and setting up herself (AND her chump guy) for suffering in the future. Obviously, any guy who takes her back is pretty much doomed to being crushed in the future.

...I swear in the cases I experienced, I bet I repeated those words verbatim. Now reading it years later and more aware - might that really be a classic rationalization for "she left me" which conviently helps in avoiding a simple fact - she dumped the current guy for another guy (in this case an ex). I think the reason guys are more like to become jealous if a woman goes to an unknown guy is that they (ie we) can not hide behind this rationalization because we don't have any comfortable facts to back it up (ie he's and abuser, looser, etc, etc).

Also, do we not use rationalizations and justifications to protect our EGO. Where we hit the wall is when we (ie logic based guys) don't have any facts or figures to base these rationalizations/justifications on. That (unknown) really messes with unware (ie AFC's).

I will tip my hand now too. I was wondering when I started the thread if someone would jump on this post with an idea. Is there something the AFC can take away from this. Perhaps a reframe of some type or a basis for a NLP approach to help a guy better understand and properly frame his jealousy.

In the end, it really comes down to rejection. Whether a guy is dumped because she swings back or ahead - it's still a rejection. Via a convient rationalization (which may also be truth) guys are more likely to avoid jealousy and EGO bruising when she swings backward. When she move ahead, its pure 100% rejection.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

:nono: Beware of becoming the "Rebound Guy."

 

[STR8UP]

I'm with the "We are always more threatened by the unknown." group on this one.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I can honestly say I don't think I have ever been jealous of an ex. I'm not trying to gloss myself on this, I just can't think of any incident in my past where I was jealous of another guy tapping a girl I had at one time (assuming I knew about it). After I read this initial post I tried to think of a time I was and I can't. Not 'after' the break that is.

You see I don't think guys get off on jealousy in the same way it affects women. Guy's get off on suspicion, not jealousy. Men have an instinctual need to know that their effort with a woman isn't being wasted. That's why we get that terrific endorphine rush that this suspicion jolts us with; a lot like the rush of the first couple of months we're with a new girl. Our subconscious questions a woman's motives even without us recognizing it because it's been so hardwired into our psycho-biological chemistry over millennia of evolution. On some level of consciousness our most primal understanding is that we know how our mating works. By pair-bonding with a female and sharing in the parental investment responsibilities we give up our option to mate as indiscriminately as our primal instincts would want us to. It makes more sense to spread our seed than to invest in one egg, but when we do there is a psychological need to know our investment is worth it. So in answer to this our biochemistry has evolved to respond to environmental prompts that trigger physical, psychological and emotional results.

This is precisely why we get that endorphine, fight-or-flight surge when our suspicions are confirmed after reading a woman's diary, her chat logs, her cell phone call list - or see her car parked in the driveway of her ex husband's/BF's house at 5am.

It's the betrayal of that, at least potential, parental investment that necessitates this physical response. At our core, our subconscious knows that in order to be exclusive with a particular female we must sacrifice any option to mate with others. So suspicion becomes a physical prompt, like salivating when we smell food when we're hungry. Problems arise when we seek out that same chemical rush when there's really nothing to prompt it. This condition can exist in both sexes of course - a constant desiring for that rush - but in men it's more pronounced.

The disconnect comes when we're not attached to that woman as our only source of sexuality. The more options a guy has prompts new behavior and a new facilitating of that endorphine rush again. For women it's the loss of that security provisioning (or the potential for it) that triggers the jealousy prompt. And again, this is mitigated by her own subconscious recognition of her options to secure another and/or possibly better provisioning male.

 

[MR_PERFECT]

It's strange, but I've never been jealous of a guy that was there before me - it is like a sense of pride, like I took what was his. But if a new man or women encroach on what I think is mine, I feel like the world is coming to an end. Another way I would feel jealousy is if I found out she was with one of her friends and I didn't find out in the beginning by her telling me. One more thing, I only feel jealousy when in love.

 

[jophil28]

Now my philosophy is if the girls I date want to go for some chump let them. The chumps can clean out the bad ones of the crop for me.

I have observed the following phenomenon many times -
Women who leave a troubled relationship ,eithr marriage or LTR invariably swing over to a ' passive and compliant' type guy. I guess that they are looking (subconsciously) for what they perceive to be a stable branch.
It is rare that the new branch is a player or a 'fun guy with options'..
When I think about it, I have been stuck dumb several times by seeing an attractive, intelligent woman leave an LTR guy only to connect up with the village chump.
A local example -
I know a hot 40 year old pharmacist who is in the process of leaving her bad marriage. Her husband is an alcoholic , a couch potato and a boring old fart who looks and behaves like a lifeless 65 year old guy.
THis woman has the body and the dress style of a 30 year old 'babe'. She is a professional , quite stylish and very attractive,
In the past 2 months she has been followed around by a Gomer Pyle type from a rural area who isn't smart enough to know that he is as dumb as a box of rocks.
She is dating him -on the side .. She goes out of her way NOT to engage in any PDA's with him BUT they are seen together every weekend when she leaves the drunken husband at home.

Clearly he is "rebound guy" and she is using him - She will probably get a divorce , get a new place tp live and dump Gomer eventually when some new Hot guy comes along.
In the meantime ,his behavior indicates that he THINKS that she has a genuine attraction towards him and (in men's logic) he figures that he is going to wind up with her as her new LTR.

THis is what women do when they leave a relationship,especially one which was troublesome . THey swing to someone who will give them FEELINGS of validation and emotional safety BUT it is rare that the new branch is who and what she wants for an LTR. He is 'transitional guy' and woe betide him if he starts WANTING something from her .

SHe chooses this new guy whom she can manipulate and control. He needs to be a PREDICTABLE source of positive feelings . Why would she swing to a guy who has options and has other choices - she may get used by HIM and dumped and hurt all over again.
Women want a safe place to land after leaving an LTR guy.

This may explain why they sometimes go back to their Ex. Perhaps there was no new AFC to whom they could swing ,so they just swing backwards to the 'safe and known'

 

[mzilla2]

I used to get jealous when I was younger, now I realize you can't live in the past and actively look forward more, can't get jealous if you're not looking back...

That said many people cling to the past, and thus jealousy issues arise.