"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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I've got a fat belly and a fat chest but I'm EXTREMELY skinny everywhere else

Demystify

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So my chest is pretty close to man boobs and my belly is noticeable even with a shirt on, but much worse when shirtless. Now everything else on my body is extremely skinny, my forearms are so skinny that they look weird and my legs look like sticks. Obviously I don't want to do much cardio because I don't want those parts to be any skinnier. Pretty much imagine a Marilyn Manson frame but with a huge gut and man boobs

Any advice as to what kind of workout regime I should be going for?
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Colossus

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You have no muscle mass, and I suspect your estrogen may be a little high.

Basically you have a propensity to store bodyfat in your trunk, like most men, and it is likely factors in your diet exacerbate that.

If you want to start trimming off the fat, this is best accomplished with dieting. Doing lots of cardio will only stave off muscle growth. Cardio is overrated for physique composition. I'd advise you to take a good hard look at your diet, and cut out the carbs. Aim for a 5:2:1 ratio of protein/carbs/fat. In other words if you have 50g of protein in a meal, you should only have about 20g of carbs and about 10g of fat. Err on the side of more protein and less carbs. Fat isn't as terrible as people think provided it is quality dietary fat. Hit the weights hard and heavy 3 days per week, add weight to the bar each week.
 

Mex

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Demystify,

I am in similar shape. Skinny arms and legs, but a beer belly. I just starting training the right way last week (see my journal). I am not too worried about fat, I am just trying to bulk up, then I will worry about the fat, if I even need to. I guess I just have to have faith that my routine will work, I am using the Stronglift's 5x5 by the way. My diet is essentially 'diet for skinny guys' (can be found on Stronglifts web page) slightly altered according to comments from people on this forum.

Too early to say if it works, but I feel a hell of a lot better today than one week ago, gained 5 lbs, and belly does not seem any bigger. Hope this helps.
 

Demystify

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So what specific workouts should I do? I know the shoulder workouts are a good one to help lose the skinny frame. Anything else?
 

EFFORT

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Your not a special case. The same thing that works for everyone else will work for you.......

Strength Training Program
Clean Diet
Cardio


Check out where to start and simple starting diet. Then start a journal with your diet planned out and people will be able to help you.
 

"I just moved here from Florida."

That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?

She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."

She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.

I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.

Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.

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Da Realist

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Demystify said:
So what specific workouts should I do? I know the shoulder workouts are a good one to help lose the skinny frame. Anything else?
I use the stronglifts 5x5 like Mex and it works. There is a website by the same name where you can download the e-book and spreadsheet. It works out every muscle group and will thicken your arms and legs pretty quickly if you follow the program.
 

Demystify

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EFFORT said:
Your not a special case. The same thing that works for everyone else will work for you.......
Well considering I worked out really hard for three years to lose my skinny frame and didn't lose it at all, I'd say I'm a special case. Whenever I lose my skinny frame and stop attracting tons of fat girls is when I'll feel like my workout was successful.
 

EFFORT

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Demystify said:
Well considering I worked out really hard for three years to lose my skinny frame and didn't lose it at all, I'd say I'm a special case. Whenever I lose my skinny frame and stop attracting tons of fat girls is when I'll feel like my workout was successful.
Post up examples of the workouts you were doing for the past 3 years, and frequency. Summarize the diet you've been eating for the past 3 years.
 

Jaggs

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kready for it.

go on a massive bulk. dont worry about the excess fat right now.

eat tonnes of food, squat, deadlift, bench, eat, rest, grow repeat.

get slightly over desired weight.

then cut down body fat.

WA-LA! Problem solvered.

read Rippetoes Starting Strength.
 

"She Made Her Decision Before You Finished Your Sentence"

Three seconds. That's how long it took. Your shoes. Your posture. The way you held your drink. Whether you looked at the floor or looked at her.

She already filed you away. Interesting. Boring. Safe. Bold. Before you even opened your mouth.

Everything you say after that is just her confirming what she already decided.

So stop rehearsing lines. Fix the first three seconds. Stand tall. Look up. Smile like you mean it. Walk like you belong wherever you're standing.

The words come later. The impression comes first.

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EFFORT

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Jaggs said:
kready for it.

go on a massive bulk. dont worry about the excess fat right now.
This would just turn into a disaster
 

nextfryday

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It sounds like you have a poor posture to start off. If the excess weight is going to the front of your body maybe you are slouched and not standing up tall. Trust me it makes a big difference. Stand tall, workout tall and sit up tall (you'll look alot better and more confident to other people) Good luck chief!!
 

Jaggs

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EFFORT said:
This would just turn into a disaster
Wut?

He said he was skinny and weak, he needs to add mass to himself before he can think about cutting.

I have fat around my stomach and pecs and I've been bulking for a while and it has tightened up significantly, and I've gained weight in the process.
 

EFFORT

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Jaggs said:
Wut?

He said he was skinny and weak, he needs to add mass to himself before he can think about cutting.

I have fat around my stomach and pecs and I've been bulking for a while and it has tightened up significantly, and I've gained weight in the process.

I agree that he needs to add muscle mass, but the last thing a skinny fat guy needs to do is go on a massive bulk ,eating everything he can get his hands on. He'll eat dirty and just make his situation worse.

I'd recommend eating very clean, cardio, and a basic strength lifting program like Starting Strength
 

Demystify

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I unfortunately don't have my old workout schedule or diets written out. I do drink beer but I'm trying to cut back. I have cut out fast food completely which is good. I've been trying to cut out soda, but it's hard.

To the guy who said my posture is terrible, you're right. When I met up with a personal trainer three years ago he said my posture was terrible and I'm sure it's not any better today.

As far as cardio, I do think I did way too much cardio when I worked out before and I believe that's what kept me skinny. When I start lifting again I'm going to do little to no cardio, unless someone can recommend cardio that won't make me too skinny.

To clarify, even though I do have a gut, people still consider me a skinny guy. I'm pretty much one of those guys that girls will say "needs more meat on his bones."
 

"She Laughed All Night. Then She Ghosted You. Here's Why."

Dinner ran three hours. She laughed at everything. You walked her to her car thinking this one's locked in.

Then: nothing. Two texts. No reply. What happened?

You did what most men do on a great date. You filled every silence, answered every question, and left her with nothing to wonder about. No mystery. Nothing to sit with when she got home.

Rule 3 of the "22 Rules" changes the ending: tell her a little, hold back the rest, and let her imagination do the chasing. The ghosting stops too.

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EFFORT

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So in 3 years of training you have no idea of what you were generally doing or eating? Only reason I'm asking is to show you what you were doing wrong so you can learn from it and improve this go around and actually reach your goals.
 

Demystify

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EFFORT said:
So in 3 years of training you have no idea of what you were generally doing or eating? Only reason I'm asking is to show you what you were doing wrong so you can learn from it and improve this go around and actually reach your goals.
Well, I said I did too much cardio, but I'll try to remember it to the best of my memory.

Workout:
Day 1: Biceps/back w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 2: Legs w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 3: Triceps/chest/shoulders w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 4: Biceps/back w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 5: Legs w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 6: Triceps/chest/shoulders w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 7: 1-3 hours of intense cardio

I worked out my abs about 3 random times through out the week.

Diet:
Lots of protein shakes and eggs, but lots of junk food too, fast food 3-5 times a week (which I said I quit), and lots of soda, and lots of alcohol on the weekends because I was in college

Keep in mind this was from fall 2004-summer 2008
I will say that I quit working out for a year because I discovered that all the ladies men I knew weren't muscular at all. But I've decided to hit the gym again because I want to lose the skinny frame entirely, which is a reason that isn't based on girls.
 

Quiksilver

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Sounds like just cutting out alcohol and fast food will do wonders for your physique(moobs, belly).

Don't neglect cardio, I'd actually suggest rotating between different types of cardio: 45 min incline walks/20 min jogs/20 min HIIT sessions(100m sprint repeats)/and GPP cardio(farmers walks, sled pulling, tire flipping, BB complexes).

There's good progs in the sticky to follow you shouldn't need help there.

So yeah, eat relatively healthy bu since your trying to get bigger and thicker you have to remember that eating enough every day is priority #1. that means if you missed a couple meals one day, don't starve because you can't eat a perfectly healthy meal; get some calories into you.

At the same time, you don't want to overdo it or else you'll just get fat.

I strongly suggest keeping regular cardio sessions in your schedule, as they keep your heart strong, keep you healthy, and support muscle growth to an extent while minimizing fat gain.

Most people with amazing physiques are athletes, and just doing 3 hours of gym work per week isn't athletic. As long as your eating to support your activity levels and are training different fitness qualities, then you can easily put in 5-10+ hours of exercise a week and your physique will be transformed.

Oh and... This all takes patience. You may be doing the right thing even now, though most peoples bodies are very good at resisting change, and you may just have to give it some time.(you can do the right thing for weeks before you'll notice benefits).
 

EFFORT

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Demystify said:
Well, I said I did too much cardio, but I'll try to remember it to the best of my memory.

Workout:
Day 1: Biceps/back w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 2: Legs w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 3: Triceps/chest/shoulders w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 4: Biceps/back w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 5: Legs w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 6: Triceps/chest/shoulders w/ 30 minutes of cardio
Day 7: 1-3 hours of intense cardio

I worked out my abs about 3 random times through out the week.

Diet:
Lots of protein shakes and eggs, but lots of junk food too, fast food 3-5 times a week (which I said I quit), and lots of soda, and lots of alcohol on the weekends because I was in college

Keep in mind this was from fall 2004-summer 2008
I will say that I quit working out for a year because I discovered that all the ladies men I knew weren't muscular at all. But I've decided to hit the gym again because I want to lose the skinny frame entirely, which is a reason that isn't based on girls.
This is why I said your not a special case before. Its very rare to find someone that is a special case. You didn't see results because your diet was terrible and your training was equally as bad lots of over training.

The good news is you can learn from that and do things correct this time around.

The first step is getting your diet laid out, then training/cardio. How about you start a Journal thread and we can work things out in their.
 

"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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