It's no secret: "The Secret" and the "Law of Attraction" are BULLSH*T

[THE_ADDMAN]

belief leads to action.

which leads to results.

its no secret; negativity will get you nowhere.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

belief leads to action.

which leads to results.

its no secret; negativity will get you nowhere.

This is very true. But you can't make a moviementary out of this.

You need to mix it with some new age hippie crap to fill in the gaps.


That's the underlying message you just wrote.

 

[THE_ADDMAN]

This is very true. But you can't make a moviementary out of this.

You need to mix it with some new age hippie crap to fill in the gaps.


That's the underlying message you just wrote.

I hear ya man. if they made it as simple as I said it, it wouldnt sell.

but, get a few hundred pseudo-scientists talkin about it, and add some mystic to it ("its been known for thousands of years, by only a few select sages and gurus, bla bla bla"), and ppl will gobble it up.

personally, I believe in the secret. but it takes more effort than most people are willing to give.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

belief leads to action....

I'd challenge that notion. Consider the AFCs in this forum, they have many beliefs however actions aren't always a result, just more frustration.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Actually Einstein and Newton were founding father's like Ben Franklin of thought that contributed to works like the Secret. Read some of their quotations. Not all of them are that way, but they are also not 100% logical atheists.

As far as Gates, he most certainly COULD have read Think and Grow Rich. All great thinkers read other great thinkers. Trump and Cuban publicly talk about what they read in all media content.

I get what people are getting at...it's like they sold out. Like Trump has cheapened himself. They're pitching this at the 95% guys. Guys here just happen to be "wise" to the goings-on of the world.

Perhaps there's psychological implications as RT pointed out, that doesn't refute some or all of what they say, though. Does it?

What's working in your life?

I can't buy or reject people saying it works or doesn't work...until all the guys here NOT believing it actually show up demonstrate success. Moreover, if TAGR has MORE people successful than NOT successful, who wins out?

That's my point. I care not for impossible to prove situation as they're a catch 22, I'm stating that the SECRET, which neglected Esther Hicks in the book and final cut, is a contribution to thought itself. Those authors owe their fame to Hill, Collier, and all great thinkers to this point. The Secret, for some, will turn them on to OTHER great works in history. AND THAT IS GOOD. THAT IS ATTRACTING something. For other's, who walk around preaching it like it's Gospel, well they'd attach themselves to anything.

It's akin to only using DOC love, Mystery, or any other system exclusively. You don't do it here, BUT, I guarantee you that one system at least WOKE that guy up to do more research, to give him a few techniques to get the women. Not every guy agrees with the SS bible, and in some way, you can say that some guys here having a CULTLIKE following to this particular bible, even though it's heresy to the true bible.

Does this SS stuff work...or does it work because confident guys can make anything work...and this just happens to be the stuff they used...so guys who lack confidence use it, gain confidence, thereby compounding it's effectiveness, and confirming it works?


A-Unit

 

[Oxide]

Here is a secret - stop smoking crack before jumping to conclusions.

perhaps the only correct idea in the Secret was to get you to visualize. AND IT DOES WORK AND HAS BEEN PROVEN MANY TIMES OVER AND OVER BY MANY MANY PEOPLE. This is not debatable. Again, when you want to do something, would you rather hope for success or failure? Sh1t my very first kiss happened because of visualization, so did the second, and the third...

Everything else- eehhh.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

"I'm a great believer in luck, and I find the harder I work the more I have of it."

Thomas Jefferson - another 'founding father'.

 

[THE_ADDMAN]

I'd challenge that notion. Consider the AFCs in this forum, they have many beliefs however actions aren't always a result, just more frustration.

yep, thats the missing step.

many people now know the 'secret' (some secret )
still, 95% of them will not use it properly, because they fail to see that part of the 'receiving' step in the Secret process is to act. to "seize the opportunity" when life throws it at them.

they think believing is enough, and they dont need to do anything else.
then they become bitter that they dont get anywhere, do to their own inaction, and they give up, saying it doesnt work.

u make a good point, that does sound similar to AFCs on this site.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

FDA, I'm surprised at you...

AFC's have many beliefs, but they don't act on them? The very definition of psychology would have it's definition of BELIEF/BELIEVE turned upside down if it were applied to AFC's who come here.

The conclusion here is...it's not a belief of their's if they're not acting upon it. Maybe it's a hope, or a passing thought, but certainly not a belief. Moreover, EVERYTHING any guy posts here is based upon installing the beliefs of SUCCESSFUL dj's/pua's. STR8UP wrote a guide on wealth. If he's not living it, and basing in on wealth, how can he possibly claim to have any tangible networth outside of what he writes? Anybody who's examined wealth, possessed it, or come from it, KNOWS it's a mindset. That's why anybody who's gone to RK books, gotten upset b/c he doesn't give the HOW TO, inevitably finds John T Reed and claims RK is a sham. MINDSET.

If you to a mASF.com, which predicates much of it's work on NLP and RE-installing beliefs that lead to actions (i.e 3 second rule), belief rules everything. Every guy here is here because they BELIEVE they can learn the right way. And the right way begins by REFORMATING your internal hard-drive, i.e your beliefs and your mind.

I don't see how or why this whole post came up, because EVERYTHING that ss is based on is grounded in stuff quite similar to what the Secret Speaks on. Either you guys contradicting are not realizing it, are oblivious, or someone has hacked your account, but to speak to the contrary is to speak ignorantly. And here's why...

Any guy who's gone from a geek to getting girls, please step forward. If there's none, then why are we here? Why do guys post Field reports and msgs saying they had some success? At least mASF can claim some success. This SAME guy, through beliefs, belief in himself, belief in this plan (here's your work part you naysayers), acts. He acts because he wants change. Before, he wasn't "aware." He took the pill. Maybe the pill was a bitter breakup, or he was LJBF'ed. Whatever it was, he's awakened to the point he wants better girls, a better way to get them, a better, more social life. So he searches ( still work ). That SEARCH, that FAITH, that BELIEF that an answer is out there...attracts (oooh scary word), this place, and other places like it.

Until this guy INTERNALIZED whatever change he wanted, and believed he could make it happen, that the answer IS there (normally it's inside us, and only takes the faith that we can get it - Think and grow rich - to make it happen for us), he wasn't going to see success. But then, this guy had 1 successful day/night. And he had more, and more. Over a year, he's surrounded in the community. Isn't this what neil strauss did, or was he just a natural? Isn't that what david d, or was he a natural? Is every guy who protests to have 1000_+ posts a DJ or are they lucky? Did ANYONE have to change and improve based on faith? If you search outside of yourself, beyond that tight comfort zone, doesn't it take FAITH, BELIEF, and then ATTRACTION?

Maybe I understand LOA differently, because I've read different books on it, so I'm not confined to the marketing hype that many are speaking out against, but I hear more ignorance than anything, when this site alone is a testament to the very LOA that must exist.

I'd like to think everyone has taken leave of their senses, or needed to SPICE this place up, and I hope that's the reason, but if not, get out there real Collier, re-read this site, examine why you're here, examine the site to see if ANY guy has made changes. Read Think and Grow Rich. Read "The Law Of Attraction" by Michael Losier (NLP). Read "Ask and it is given" by esther hicks. Read Tony Robbins. Just read. It's in everything, from a variety of standpoints. I get the logical argument presented by RT, but it doesn't JIVE with real world results that happen here ALL the time. It doesn't JIVE with the basis of what this site is about.

When a guy comes here, he comes with hope. Hope to find a way. A solution. Maybe not the holy grail, but something different. If you're telling me he can't ATTRACT through work, without knowing the path (because an AFC won't know the path anyways, that's why he's here) then you're telling everyone this place is BS. Is that what it is? Most guys say "READ THE BIBLE," and with faith in your comments as mr big 1000 post guy ( no specific member directed here ) he does. And he acts upon it, hoping to ATTRACT through the DJ bible, all the pleasures you've experienced. Guys with 1000 posts, please raise your hand how many PM's you get based on something you project to be? Do you get guys PMING on books you read? On women you laid? On gaming? On Sarging? Does STR8UP get pm's on guys who want to learn REI, hoping to ATTRACT the same things in life through some PLAN based on faith and belief?

Just because you go to college, does not mean you're assured a great and rich career. You follow the easy path of a degree, with the HOPE and BELIEF you can attract the dreams you hold inside. If you don't have that...what's pushing you? If Bill Gates didn't have some GRAND DESIGN for everything before he invested Billions and dropped college...where would he be today? If Tiger's dad didn't see the big picture...where would Tiger be? You're telling me the BIGGEST of the BIGGEST are...either immortal gods with luck, pure genius of chance, or perhaps, they're the MOST VISUAL, MOST PREPARED, and MOST FOCUSED to attract the reality they desire? Which is it? The answers I get will denote the reality you profess to all.

The very foundations of Think and Grow Rich speak on this. Now, you can just not BELIEVE the book. But if you believe in the book, then it can happen, and you then have something in common with the Secret. Again, "The Secret" doesn't work on farting all day long, HOPING. Like this site, it works on FAITH, and BELIEF, and TRUST, and VISUALIZING what you want and working toward. That's attraction. Nothing will magically deliver your body to you, not even a pill. BUT, if you research like a MOFO, take some tips from WBA, buy starting strength, rework your diet, and ENVISION your body, how you want it to look, where you want to look good, the clothes you want to wear...it's a matter of execution.

As one person who's experience 50x how the Law of Attraction works, I can't let the ignorance continue. I can't let reputable members of this site make statements that aren't true, which fly in the face of everything they've ever written, or even what this site is about. And from personal experience, I can attest to things that the video speaks on actually working. Maybe you don't like the woman, or you feel ripped off, or you're the type who thinks RK is dumb...your response here doesn't shock me then. But there's more than a modicum of truth in the video AND the book, and the work and contribution of the authors is FAR greater than what this 1 article writing Skeptic Magazine guy wrote. Jack Canfield? Bob Proctor? Denis Waitely? Have you read or heard their stuff? And Skeptic Magazine is going to reign supreme, and in 1 fell swoop, negate decades of work, and nearly a century into this study? Please.

Good luck to you All,

A-Unit

 

[Quiksilver]

Finally someone took the time to sit down and explain this. Thanks A-Unit, for shedding some needed light on the absurdity of this thread.

 

[Holland]

I like to read between the lines and not take everything so literally. Like: the universe will give you what you want if you want it enough... you don't have to do anything.

That's complete bull

Agreed. I dont understand why so many people think that's what the secret is about. They all say you have to take action.
And look at someone like Bob Proctor or Brian Tracy. They are multi millionaires and all contribute their succes to a good understanding and application of the universal laws.
They all talk about 'the secret' to a large extend.
And they have made millions of money and a fantastic life with it.
Think and Grow Rich is also about these laws.
Wayne Dyer's Power of Intention is also a great example.
I can name so many works who support this:
-The power of your sub-concious mind by Joseph Murphy
-The Science of Self-confidence by Brian Tracy
-All James Arthur Ray's stuff
-Pook on this forum
-Anthony Robbins work

They all say one thing: As you think, so shall you be.
You become what you think about, so if you want to change, the first thing you need to change are your thoughts. And those thoughts will dictate your actions. And those actions lead to results.

"In order to GET something, you must first BE something."


Oow, and with did mr. who-gives-a-fuuck-what-his-name-whas from Skeptic magazine do?
Exactly, only waste peoples time.

Learn from the people who get RESULTS, instead of the people who argue.

 

[STR8UP]

I applaud the differing perspective offered by Deep Dish, but it's only the other side of the coin. It's but one perspective, one source. I never drank from the Koolaid of the Secret, nor did I think it would get this large. I do believe it helped really boil down what alot of scholars who have been writing for over 100 years would say for guys who might not have gotten it or would even bother to take alot at. And more shocking are guys like STR8Up who have changed their reality, but naysay against even the slightest statements mentioned in the Secret. Other guys can attest to changing realities, and there are plenty of guys who've gone from geek to god, perhaps in their own mind, who have finally met women they like, jobs they want, friends they like, situations they like, etc, to refute the fact that we create reality. Do we not?

All I have to go by is the tv commercial I saw, but based upon that it looked like a bunch of "place your fate in hopes hands" BS.

I'm pretty good at sniffing out crap, and unless the product is something WAAAAY different from the advertisements, this is definitely crap.

From what I understand of this, it looks like it's nothing more than a glorified lazy man's way to get what you want. It isn't nearly as evil as the idea that everything should be HANDED to you, but it's almost as self destructive when you consider that you are telling people that it is THOUGHTS that transform your life rather than ACTIONS.

Lets be clear about this. I am in no way, shape, or form against positive thoughts and affirmations and the like. I would even go so far as to say that they are beneficial to achieving one's goals. the problem comes when you try to lead people to believe that thoughts can replace actions.

I could have wished for a nice car and house all I wanted, but fact of the matter is that if I had not busted my ass for the past decade I wouldn't have any of it. Sure, I always knew that I would get ahead one day and I told myself that. But thought without action is nothing. It's the DOing part that makes good things happen to you.

Like I said, I could be way off base here, but from what I have seen this is nothing more than telling people to place their fate in the hands of wishes and dreams, and I ain't buyin' it.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

"In order to GET something, you must first BE something."

Then you HAVE to do whatever it takes to achieve. And that usually weans hard work towards your goal in order to reap the great reward.

Oow, and with did mr. who-gives-a-fuuck-what-his-name-whas from Skeptic magazine do?
Exactly, only waste peoples time.

Learn from the people who get RESULTS, instead of the people who argue.

Agreed. The guy made no difference. That's why you don't take advice from skeptics. You can take advice from realisic people because they're normal.. but skeptics are negative little sh*ts that do nothing but judge and complain.

 

[STR8UP]

The conclusion here is...it's not a belief of their's if they're not acting upon it. Maybe it's a hope, or a passing thought, but certainly not a belief. Moreover, EVERYTHING any guy posts here is based upon installing the beliefs of SUCCESSFUL dj's/pua's. STR8UP wrote a guide on wealth. If he's not living it, and basing in on wealth, how can he possibly claim to have any tangible networth outside of what he writes? Anybody who's examined wealth, possessed it, or come from it, KNOWS it's a mindset. That's why anybody who's gone to RK books, gotten upset b/c he doesn't give the HOW TO, inevitably finds John T Reed and claims RK is a sham. MINDSET.

Wealth acquisition is absolutely a mindset. It is a mindset in that you must have the capacity to think differently than the average person.

But that doesn't mean that if you possess the mindset that wealth will automatically fall from the sky and stick to you like glue. You have to TAKE ACTION to attract wealth. The mindset allows you do see things others can't or don't see which will allow you to take advantage of things others cannot, but mindset in and of itself it does nothing....you MUST act.

Does STR8UP get pm's on guys who want to learn REI, hoping to ATTRACT the same things in life through some PLAN based on faith and belief?

I have gotten plenty of pm's from guys wanting to learn this stuff. It's pretty easy to tell which ones are looking for a magic pill and which ones are willing to put forth the effort.

People who ask a simple question like "how do I get rich" are looking for a simple answer and unfortunately there isn't much I can do for them. But a few people will ask something like "I read your post on such and such. I understand what you are saying about this, but could you clarify that for me?" These people have a chance because they aren't looking for a 2+2 type answer to a question that has an infinite number of variables. They are willing to try to understand a concept that involves abstract thinking.

Like you said about RK....people are looking for the answer when there really isn't one. RK outlines the fundamentals, but it's up to an individual to create his OWN mindset based upon the thousands of variables in YOUR OWN life.

Yes it is a mindset, it is beliefs, it is all of that, but at the end of the day your mind isn't what is going to put food on the table. Even if you specifically WORK with your mind you still have to hit the keys on the computer, make the phone calls, or at the bare minimum you have to dictate orders to other people in order for anything to happen.

Action....it's the final step between concept and realization. And the most important one, IMO.

 

[Deep Dish]

I think it's noteworthy that no one here, thus far, has actually tried to refute the science in the original article or the subsequent elaborations—what a relief on my fingers!—though it would be fallacious to say the science presented is extreme skepticism as I presented the mainstream scientific consensus view; quantum physics is simply too small. Strip the mysticism out of the “law of attraction”, return it to metaphor, take away the feel-good lies, and what we have left is nothing to be skeptical about. Nothing to buy, either. People who have thus far dismissed the Skeptic magazine article, the magazine itself, Michael Shermer, seem to think the article was assaulting positive thinking and why that is is the bigger question.

I suspect it comes down to a lacking sense of control. Michael Shermer's book Why People Believe Weird Things demonstrates that people who hold superstitious beliefs or conspiratorial thoughts tend to have an external locus of control, which is to say they feel life happens to them rather than by their actively leading their life. Whereas, people who have an internal locus of control in their life tend to be freer of superstitions. Surely, of course, we're talking a regression of tendencies rather than absolutes. The only exception is belief in telepathy, in which believers tend to have an internal locus of control, but then again maybe that is because by telepathy they think they can control their life. So, by reacting to the criticism and debunking of the physical claims behind The Secret and What The Bleep Do We Know? as an attack on positive thinking in of itself—oh the hell with you skeptics, I think positively and it works—it is a decidedly personal visceral reaction.

I hesitate but must disagree with my otherwise agreeable colleagues by disagreeing that people who believe in this New Age nonsense are necessarily dumb. Intelligence vs. stupidity is orthogonal and perpendicular to belief vs. non-belief. As demonstrated figures who appear in the two films, there are people who may be exceptionally smart, even brilliantly smart, who happen to fancy the sound which come out of a duck's mouth.. you know, “quack.” In the words of Shermer, smart people believe in weird things because they are better skilled at defending their beliefs which they arrived to for not the smartest of reasons.

 

[Nighthawk]

Also, nobody has debated what is most distasteful to me about this 'everyone gets what they wish for' LAW that The Secret, Cosmic Ordering (as Noel tidybeard Edmonds is flogging the concept in the UK) or 'karma' espouse - that those who died in the holocaust, get abused as children, are born disabled or lose all their family in a freak gardening accident, all deserved their fate.

The idea that the universe does not care about your insignificant life is just too chilling for most people to accept. Though I would counter your assertion that the collapse of wave-function in quantum physics is nothing to do with the observer's perception. I know this strange behaviour has been co-opted by every psuedo-science nut on the make, but I don't believe it is just down to light photons.

And skepticism is the only rational approach. You anti-skeptics believe in fairies if it makes you feel better.

 

[Donsing]

I posted this on the other forum, it might help you.

My Friend, thought do not create reality, neither do emotions. Your beliefs influence your perception, thus influencing your actions. In a manner of speaking, your choices or doing creates reality.
Example of a Belief system influencing your actionsg: You closing your door represent the belief that you need protection and their is a probably a bigger belief behind that. The belief that states "You do not create your reality" because if you did create your reality then why would somebody steal from your house. Their are no "random" events.

Pay attention to NOW- Pay attention to what are you DOING regarding NOW, Pay attention to what are you THINKING regarding NOW (Thoughts translate not create), and Pay attention to what are you COMMUNICATING regarding NOW. Accept your beliefs completely and do not judge either postively or negatively.

BUT recognize this is not absolute, You can express a belief that says your thoughts create your reality. I know this for sure that YOU DO CREATE YOUR REALITY.

Life is made up of beliefs and only beliefs. A-unit their are people who take shower in 4 liter of acid, it's all about trusting yourself and accepting your beliefs rather than fighting them.

STAY IN THE MOMENT

 

[STR8UP]

I suspect it comes down to a lacking sense of control. Michael Shermer's book Why People Believe Weird Things demonstrates that people who hold superstitious beliefs or conspiratorial thoughts tend to have an external locus of control, which is to say they feel life happens to them rather than by their actively leading their life. Whereas, people who have an internal locus of control in their life tend to be freer of superstitions. Surely, of course, we're talking a regression of tendencies rather than absolutes.

Ever notice that people in poorer countries and less advanced civilizations tend to be very superstitious?

My ex g/f was born in the Philippines in a very poor village. She had a few completely irrational superstitions that were obviously taught to her by her even more superstitious mother.

Watch almost any show on primitive tribal people and you will see the same thing. Lots of hoodoo voodoo boogeyman mumbo jumbo. Kinda sad to watch people relinquish their fate to "the spirits" when they are REALLY relinquishing their fate to those around them who DON'T believe in such malarkey. And so they remain, left behind those who take fate into their own hands. Oh well.....

 

[insanity]

the law of attraction is very intriguing. some people don't believe in psychics but whats the first thing that comes to mind when these supposed frauds read your fortune? you instantly start to visualize and believe in what these people say about your future. if your totally sceptical and don't believe in what they say then sure it won't come true and you would be right only because if you don't believe than nothing will happen. is there such thing as destiny or can we change things.....of course we can change things for the better or for worse.

i have read alot of books on visualization topics and the stuff truly works. everything has to be all in small steps though. you can't just visualize a mansion to materialize out of thin air. the reason people give up is because they don't visualize small things that are believable. they visualize the big goods first and when it doesn't show up then the skeptism kicks in.

i used to believe that being an azzhole would get me woman after woman and guess what. it worked because i believed that. it worked so well that i began hating how unchalleging women were. i even got sick of acting like an azzhole because i wasn't really like that. then i wrote down that there must be a girl out there that doesn't fall fo pricks. i described her to a tee and i thought about this girl and imagined her every night before i went to bed. magically a few months later she appeared and we have been together for almost the last 6 years and she is wonderful.

does the law of attraction work?.....for me it does. but thats because i have seen to many things happen in my life not by chance but by imagine it.

 

[Holland]

Lets be clear about this. I am in no way, shape, or form against positive thoughts and affirmations and the like. I would even go so far as to say that they are beneficial to achieving one's goals. the problem comes when you try to lead people to believe that thoughts can replace actions.

That's not what the Secret is about.
Let's take James Arthur Ray for instance, someone who speaks in 'the Secret'.
He says: "You have to go three for three: your thoughts, your feelings and your actions. All need to be firing simultaniously."
And Michael Beckwith: "This is affirmative realisation through right action."


If you look carefully, even someone like Kanye & Jay-Z are using the Secret.

Good morning, this ain't Vietnam, still
people lose hands, legs, arms for real
Little was known of Sierra Leone,
and how it connects to the diamonds we own
When I speak of diamonds in this song,
I ain't talking bout the ones that be glowin’,
I'm talking bout Rocafella, my home,
my chain, these ain't conflict diamonds, is they Jacob?
Don't lie to me man
See a part of me saying keep shining, how?
When I know of the blood diamonds,
Though it's thousands of miles away,
Sierra Leone connect to what we go through today
Over here it's a drug trade, we die from drugs
Over there, they die from what we buy from drugs
The diamonds, the chains, the bracelets the charms’s
I thought my Jesus piece was so harmless
till I seen a picture of a shorty armless
and here's the conflict - it's in a black person soul to rock that gold
Spend ya whole life trying to get that ice
On that polo rugby it look so nice,
how could something so wrong make me feel so right, right?
Before I beat myself up like Ike
You can still throw ya Rocafella diamond tonight
because...
Diamonds are forever

Jay-Z:
Yup! I got it from here 'Ye (yay), damn.
The chain remains, the gang is intact
The name is mine, I'll take blame for that
The pressures on, but guess who ain't gon' crack?
*Ha Ha* Pardon me, I had to laugh at that
How could you falter?
When you're the Roc of Gibraltar
I had to get off the boat so I could walk on water
This ain't no tall order, this is nothing to me
Difficult takes a day, impossible takes a week
I do this in my sleep, I sold kilo's of coke
(So) I'm guessing I can sell CD's
I'm not a businessman,
I'm a business, man!
Let me handle my business, damn
Kanye, he got me,
Freeway and Foxy,
YGz, Teira Marie, Peedi watch me
Bleek could be one hit away ya whole career
As long as I'm alive, he's a millionaire
And even if I die, he's in my will somewhere
So he can just kick back and chill some where, oh yeah
He won't even have to write rhymes,
The dynasty, like my money last three lifetimes
Shirley Bassey's in the rear saying exactly what I been saying practically my whole career
The diamond is forever, I been mining this forever
Now the Louis Vuitton Don's timing couldn't be better
People lined up to see the Titanic sinking
stead we rose from the ash like a phoenix
If ya waiting for the end of the dynasty sign
It would seem like forever is a mighty long time!