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very true...but when was the last time you dealt with a 7+ who WASN'T a taker...maybe in college a few times but vataloco had it right...as the girls age the *****yness increases...i see 24 years olds who are a thousand times more entitled than when they were 22.DMSR76 said:the bottom line is a guy is bound to get tired of dealing with Takers all the time. These people make poor impressions, yet they always expect to receive some type of royal treatment. This is in spite of the fact that they never pull their weight during interactions with the opposite sex.
I understand exactly where the OP is coming from with his observation.
BINGO!!!Tazman said:The chick is just looking for "leverage", thats all. When they know they can make you wait, it means they're in control of the frame. She's probably looking for more of a provider, a guy she can sink her teeth into.
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another damn good post:Howiestern said:Squirrels, I can relate to what you are saying and you make some valid points.
However, I've read my sisters messages she gets on POF and it disgusts me. I've heard the stories from her and many others of guys sending pics of their privates with out ever going out with them. Women are tired of this behavior. They are a bit jaded about it and have little tolerance for anything that resembles another dose of it.
You did little during your interaction to portray yourself as something different than another perv looking for sechs. She called you out for it and you reinforced her belief of you. Yes you did so in a joking manner but she didn't take it as such.
Its kind of like this......most of the experienced guys on this forum have almost no tolerance for flakes or golddiggers. Most shut down at the first hint of anything that resembles that possibility. This girl hates pervs so her defense mechanism kicked in and she shut you out. The two things are very similar.
A little subtleness goes a long way with a chic. They are masters at decoding subtleness. I think you could have made your point in a less direct manner and not offended this chic. The term "calibration" comes to mind. Leaving a little mystery about yourself never hurts either.
squirrels, when are you going to GROW???wait_out said:I haven't posted in a while, but I felt like chipping in on this thread because it seems like the same old negativity this forum is infamous for. Squirrels I think you are going about this the wrong way. You are wishing for a quality women so you can have a good time. Instead you should be focusing on having a good time, and simply learn to cope with the actual women who are out there with all their flaws and imperfections so you have positive interactions rather than frustrating ones. Quick example? Wearing a condom can mean the difference between a good time and a catastrophe. Same imperfect girl -- it's your own actions towards her that make the difference.
Theoretical question: would you rather have a fun day with a 4, or a sh!tty depressing day with a 9? Personally I'd take a fun day with a 4. It wouldn't involve sex, maybe you'd go to 6 Flags or something -- but you are having fun and making your life better. On paper this is easy, but what actually happens? I think the majority of guys on this forum would choose a sh!tty depressing day with a "9" headcase, since they're locked into chasing a phantom with a pretty face because they think only that will make them happy.
This is why guys are so stupid. You become a casualty of dating stress, at which point you are a walking red flag (and endlessly harping on about "quality women" qualifies) which will warn away well-balanced women who know better. You are wearing that good or bad experience the rest of your life -- maybe that sounds melodramatic, but its true. Your experiences stay with you, for better or worse. That's why the term "damaged goods" exists.
More relevantly to your case, Squirrels, you chose to spend your time getting into email drama on POF, when you could have done something that brings value to your life. I'm not telling you to make excuses for the flaws of other people, or blame yourself for their issues, but turning the mirror inward is always more productive because your choices start with you and you can affect them. That "quality woman" thing is never going to come true and your probably know that.
If you are getting burnt out on women, change what you're doing. There is nothing complicated about that.
<teeth>Jitterbug said:^^ typical hangups of women in the Anglosphere. My Latina friends and I discussed this the other night and had a good laugh about it. Anglosphere women get really touchy whenever sex or anything related to sexuality is mentioned.
One reason so many "Anglo" women are touchy about sex is that there are so many guys approaching them who are only interested in them for the sex. You don't have to look too far on this forum to find these guys. The golddigger is a good example of an equivalent - guys do not want girls who are only interested in their money.Howiestern said:Its kind of like this......most of the experienced guys on this forum have almost no tolerance for flakes or golddiggers. Most shut down at the first hint of anything that resembles that possibility. This girl hates pervs so her defense mechanism kicked in and she shut you out.
Just to be clear, I used the word "Anglosphere" because I want to refer to all women, regardless of race, living in those Anglosphere countries.One reason so many "Anglo" women are touchy about sex is that there are so many guys approaching them who are only interested in them for the sex.
Iq, the point is I kind of got a vibe from the beginning that this girl was going to be more trouble than she was worth. We immediately started into some playful banter...and she asked to see pics of ME first. SHE said she wanted to see more pictures to make sure I was "fit", despite the fact that my profile pics clearly show what I look like. AND SHE requested a "shirtless" picture, which for a discreet young lady is WAY out of line in the first place. So I responded with a suggestive joke..."I'll show you mine if you show me yours". I didn't overtly start talking about sexual expectations until she did...I was candid with her because she got candid with me.iqqi said:As I read the responses now, I'd like to give a standing ovation to this one, he says it perfectly:
another damn good post:
squirrels, when are you going to GROW???
Put away your credit card.
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I highly doubt they were playing the role of the stereotypical servile wuss. These guys were getting in this woman's pants pretty easy and pretty quick. And the fact that they were able to toss these girls like a used rag shows that they didn't value them much at all and I'm sure it carried through in their actions. And I'm sure their actions said a lot more than their words....zekko said:I've seen guys good at faking this also.
But it still seems strange, since they tell you here on this forum that women will view you as a beta wuss if you are too romantic or express love feelings too quickly. They pretty much tell you here to go in the complete opposite direction. They tell you to laugh at these guys playing the romance card because the women will supposedly be getting wet for you because you don't. And yet there seems to be a fairly large number of guys out there who are quite successful with this approach.
Yes.Atom Smasher said:. It's all about setting the stage in her little drama, men.
OK, you are the one who is kind of going overboard. Because she makes it clear up front that she doesn't want anyone coming on too strong, she is a discreet young lady? And you showing your chest is the same as her showing her chest? Come on now. You are rationalizing here.squirrels said:AND SHE requested a "shirtless" picture, which for a discreet young lady is WAY out of line in the first place. So I responded with a suggestive joke..."I'll show you mine if you show me yours". I didn't overtly start talking about sexual expectations until she did...I was candid with her because she got candid with me.
1. Just because she doesn't want you to come on strong doesn't mean she isn't interested in you physically and sexually.squirrels said:After all, SHE was the one driving this physical angle. I was happy just BSing until she kept pressing me for more pictures, more pictures. If she TRULY isn't interested in a sexual aspect to the discussion, then I could be a 500# bull whale and it wouldn't matter.
There's a lot more room for subtlety in person, yes. And I could have been more subtle in how I approached her if I wanted to be like EVERY OTHER guy she's been with recently, playing her for a fool until I got what I wanted.
Who is assuming here?squirrels said:You proceed from a false assumption here...that just because she's a pretty young lady, I'm supposed to be interested in a "relationship" with her right off the bat. That's EXACTLY what I meant by posting this thread...I'm not ranting about her unwillingness to put out, but her expectation of being romanced SOLELY based on her looks, by guys who AREN'T interested in sex right away.
Well this is just all full of assumptions here, and negative ones at that. I don't know what you expect when that is your line of thinking.squirrels said:Honestly, I got the vibe from the first time I saw her pic/read her profile/chatted with her that she was the kind of girl just WAITING for a chance to emasculate a guy, that she was the type of girl who had gotten abused a dozen times before because, frankly, she's stupid and guys just have to tell her what she wants to hear to get into her pants.
Well you did the right thing!squirrels said:I could've done the same thing...and would have if she actually grabbed my interest on more than a sexual level. But with that attitude staring me in the face, I figured I'd tell her a few things about herself.
Man, tons and tons of assumptions here.squirrels said:What you and other women don't seem to understand, Iq, is that I'm not like most of the other guys you run into. I would rather be single for my ENTIRE LIFE than be in a "relationship" with a woman who bores or annoys me. I don't need a nursemate that I merely tolerate for the purpose of breeding kids or having my "urges" taken care of. THAT is the problem with guys these days, and that's why modern women show little character.
Um... weighing in on a subject is not "coming to the defense" of anyone. Is she even here arguing with you? Do you feel ganged up on, and attacked?squirrels said:I don't presume to know you well enough to lump you with those women or not. I DO find it troubling that you came to the defense of some woman you don't even know except from what I told you about her, just because you're a fellow woman. Do you consider yourself a "fellow" to this girl?
No... I expect a "good man" to fall for me after he takes the time and effort to see that I am cultured, intelligent, caring, fun, and all that blah blah blah that makes me who I am.squirrels said:Are you the same way? I respect your intelligence because I've seen you post a LOT here, but in real life, do you expect a "good man" to fall for you at first glance and assume because you're pretty that you're also cultured, intelligent, caring, and fun? Have they told you that story just to get in your pants and turned YOU off to your sexuality entirely as well??
I don't think anyone is casting out sex as an evil part. I think you are the one who is casting out romance, or even simple "getting to know someone" as evil.squirrels said:Sex isn't as good without real romance behind it, everyone knows that. But why is the "sex" half cast out as the "evil part"? Is romance as good without sex behind it?
Well, sounds like she wanted you to be her boyfriend, and you let her know you'd rather stop having sex than to become that.squirrels said:I've tried that too...and when you do, women wonder "what's wrong with you". I was dating a girl for a LONG time and she started giving me speeches about how she couldn't keep having sex with a guy who wasn't a steady boyfriend. So in respect for her feelings, I told her we should just stop having sex for a while. She EXPLODED into a fit of rage over it.
Well that is just FULL of assumptions and negativity, good lord! How do you expect to have any kind of positive relationships with a woman when that is your mindset??squirrels said:Let's be honest here...women don't want men to not think about sex. They want men to think about the LACK of sex, so they can dangle that promise in front of our noses as "bait", encouragement to act in the way SHE wants us to act. That's why it's a "no-no" on the first couple of dates, because she doesn't yet know if she can use you. Once she realizes she CAN, then she gives you a sample and drags you along as long as she can BETWEEN samples, feeding you instructions along the way. Unless SHE has HER urges, anyway. I'm on to you ladies.