Is this the right way to proceed with this girl?

[Rubato]

I'm just looking to clarify whether or not I'm acting appropriately here. I just took my sleeping pill for the night and I apologize if it affects the clarity of my writing:

I've been seeing a girl for about 2 months. I've known her for 5. We saw each other at least twice a week due to a mutual class we had and have had 7 dates. I have gotten a lot of IOI's from this girl, many of you will remember reading about a rather embarrassing AFC reversion I had when I felt overcome by a oneitis for her... and I moved beyond that. I feel like I have a healthy perspective about the situation now.

Given all of that, I like this girl. On our date today in fact, I was thinking to myself wondering what the point of what I'm doing with her is. There are many guys on this board who are here because they want to date multiple women and aren't interested in an LTR, but that's the reason why I came here. I am ultimately looking for an LTR and based on what I know about the girl so far, she seems exactly like what I'm looking for. My wing agrees.

So I'm going to make her my girlfriend. She works every night this week, Mon-Sat so I'm going to call her tomorrow and tell her to be at my house at 9 Wednesday morning and bring some board games. She loves Yahtzee and this other game I can't think of. I'm also going to tell her to bring warm clothing. We'll obviously play some board games and then I'm going to take her for a walk through a metropark a few miles from my house. It's a very gorgeous trail, particularly during the winter and she loves the outdoors.

The way I want to do this is to literally say "I want you to be my girlfriend", but not in a way that sounds like I planned it. To find some moment where I say something that really makes her laugh or gets a very positive reaction from her, take her in my arms and give her a kiss and say it as though it were a revelation that just occurred to me. That I'm very happy with my life and feel complete in it... but like it's suddenly occurring to me that as happy as I am, she compliments it, and I'd like to take her along with me through my journey. That's the frame I have.

And I'll be very surprised if she says no. This is the girl who apologized to me earlier today because she didn't have time to make me more than a toasted sandwich for lunch and promised to make it up to me by cooking me her favorite ethnic dish for dinner sometime.

When we're done with the hike, we'll come back to my house and I'll give her another ballroom dance lesson by my fireplace.

That being said, I have a few questions about the mechanics of how all this will go down.

First, I haven't been in a committed relationship since I broke up with the fiance I had who cheated on me in 2008... well, I take that back. I did ask a girl in 2009 to be my girlfriend, but we were together for 2 days. I'm not sure that counts. The point is, I haven't even wanted to be anything near exclusive with a girl in a long time and don't really know what the Don Juan response to that would be. I know he wouldn't ask the girl, because that would throw the locus of relational control to her, and would prevent him from leading. He also wouldn't wait for her to initiate it because that would also be a failure to lead. If he is actually going to lead, he needs to bring it up, but I think he would do so from the perspective I articulated above.

Second, I have done very little for this girl. Besides buying her breakfast on our third date and bringing half the ingredients for the dinner we made together on our second date, I haven't spent on dime on her. No flowers, nothing. This girl is freakishly similar to another girl I felt very strongly for in the past and so with the understanding that women are generally unreliable sources of advice about other women, I called this girl up (and she doesn't know who the girl is, lives in another state, and can't find her online because she doesn't know her name and I don't have a Facebook) and asked her what attracted her to me. She said it was my outgoing personality that made her feel very secure (confidence) and that when I looked at her, she felt like she was the only girl in the room (eye contact/dominance). I then asked her what she thought I should do about this girl and she told me I need to buy her flowers.

I already know what the opinion seems to be on this board about flowers. But I feel like this is a little different scenario. I didn't just meet this girl, I don't call her/see her/text her/give her a lot of attention. I don't buy her things. In the 2 months we've been dating, like I said, I bought her one cheap meal and contributed a 2 cans of crushed tomatoes and 1 pound of beef to our meal. Everything else has been dutch or (usually) something she's made for me. I feel like she's done enough to deserve a token gesture like flowers, and that it would correlate well with the overall frame I'm in with her.

So, basically, am I on the right track here given what my goals are? I feel like I have a strong frame right now and want to make something happen with this girl. I don't feel like it's AFC to say/feel that way either. If Don Juan wanted a girl, he would do something about it. And that's what I want to do.

 

[Viagra4Soul]

Watch her body language, do your thing, take her in your arms etc. BUT DO NOT ask her to be your girlfriend!? (what is this - 1956?).

Why label her? Do the actions, enjoy the fruits of your labour, worry about naming whatever the hell it is you two become, later.

Naming the game a win or a lose is what you do back in the clubhouse after its all over. Right now, you gotta steal first base!

 

[Rubato]

Watch her body language, do your thing, take her in your arms etc. BUT DO NOT ask her to be your girlfriend!? (what is this - 1956?).

Why label her? Do the actions, enjoy the fruits of your labour, worry about naming whatever the hell it is you two become, later.

Naming the game a win or a lose is what you do back in the clubhouse after its all over. Right now, you gotta steal first base!

First base has already been stolen.

Like I said, guys are here for different reasons. And I'm no longer looking for people to get myself off on. I've had enough casual sex and I'm looking for something more fulfilling and deeper.

So I'm not using how quickly I have been able to get this girl's jeans off as my success gauge, but to the extent I'm able to capture her heart.

And I thought I made it clear, but I have no intention of ASKING her to be my girlfriend. I thought I said that was a terrible idea. Instead, I would tell her that she is. And she can either be happy with that, or refuse. If she refuses, she's proven her utility to me and I no longer need to concern myself with her.

 

[Viagra4Soul]

Instead, I would tell her that she is..

so what do you need our help for? You got it all planned out.

 

[Rubato]

so what do you need our help for? You got it all planned out.

Because I like bouncing my ideas off other people. I don't always listen to their advice. But the outcomes I get provide me with valuable information as to whether or not I should have. I like perspective before I make a decision.

 

[PrettyBoyAJ]

I feel you on this Rubato. Most guys want many girls. When you have many girls though you just want quality girls that are LTR material. I found a girl like this in the past few months. Figures though that she moved an hour and a half from me :/. Great relationship for me and I rarely showed her emotion even though she said she loved me multiple times. I was really sad when she left because I don't think I can drive an hour and a half every week to see a girl. No matter how much feelings I have for her it's just not logical in my head. She has asked me multiple times to be her boyfriend but I always tell her I'm not a boy so I can't be a boyfriend. I'm a man.

If I were you I would wait until she brings it up about exclusivity. If she wants to be your girlfriend then she won't mess with any other dudes off the bat. You can show her how you feel however. But I really think this is something that she has to totally bring up.Good luck to you my friend. Seems like she makes you happy, which is a very good feeling to have and rare.

 

[Pimp-sicle]

Your pretty confused on the principles of a Don Juan. You mention how you know you shouldn't ask a question such as "will you be my girlfriend," then also say but the Don Juan also wouldn't stay put by not saying anything because that would show a failure to lead.

While that might be somewhat true, you lead by your ACTIONS, not with your words. You have something solid going on with this girl, things are going great and now all of sudden you want to put pressure on the situation all because of a label? Bad idea for many reasons. I don't doubt that she will happily agree and say yes, but from that moment on you lose frame control by effectively showing your hand. This has nothing to do with your goals of finding one woman, versus others wanting to bang a busload. This is more about the principle and the tone it sets for the future of your relationship.

Or in simpler terms; If its not broke why try to fix it? What you have done up until this point has got you great results and your progressing exactly how you want. You want to risk messing it up, just so you can tell someone that you have a lable of bf/gf?

Lastly, the fact that you are only 24 and were engaged nearly 4 years ago is more telling into the fact that you have a lot to learn about life and women still. Being engaged at 20 is like jumping out of a plane and not knowing whether you have a parachute or not.







PIMP

 

[zekko]

I get the sense you know where you're at with this girl, so if you think she won't refuse, you're probably right.

But generally speaking, I do think the girl should ask the "what are we?" question, she should be seeking to lock you down, not vice versa.

This CAN work, but if she thinks it's premature you can ruin the whole thing.

 

[Juan Don]

If I were you I would wait until she brings it up about exclusivity. If she wants to be your girlfriend then she won't mess with any other dudes off the bat. You can show her how you feel however. But I really think this is something that she has to totally bring up.Good luck to you my friend. Seems like she makes you happy, which is a very good feeling to have and rare.

yes to this. i know you want a ltr. in my opinion the woman should be the one to bring that up. why ruin what you have now if things are going well? in time she will bring it up. you don't want to risk the chance of scaring her off.

 

[Rubato]

But generally speaking, I do think the girl should ask the "what are we?" question, she should be seeking to lock you down, not vice versa.

This CAN work, but if she thinks it's premature you can ruin the whole thing.

Note, I wrote a lot here and most of it was just for me in order to get some things out of my head. If you don't care to read the whole thing, the only thing I'm really asking is how I can bring the girl to want to "lock me down" sufficient enough to actually say it. And how can I demonstrate my affections/lead towards an LTR frame in a way that is not AFC


Ok. I think that's the ideal frame. Several of the guys who responded here said I need to demonstrate my affections/lead via actions. Well, what are some solid examples of that that are not AFC? This may be because I'm a man and a rather philosophical one at that, but I feel like if she doesn't know that I care for her rather deeply, there's a serious problem.

Despite treating her like a "little girl" when I'm with her, I am always a gentleman. I open doors for her, open the car door for her, pull out her chair for her, take her coat, ect. I kiss the girl. I hold her hand. I sit with my arm around her. I plan dates for her that are not just things I would enjoy, but are things that any rational girl would spend most of their childhood dreaming about... like that date we made dinner together (I actually spend most of the dinner making time teaching a girl who allegedly already knew how to cook how to actually cook.), taught her a sensual ballroom dance while the meal was cooking, ate it, and then watched Beauty and the Beast. She loved it. I give her, sparingly, sincere compliments - like for example, if she wears something that I think exceptionally accent her blue eyes, I'll tell her. I even send her crazy messages in cheesy French poetry poetry occasionally confirming our dates:

Belle HB, avec des yeux si bleus. Je vais arriver à votre maison à 8:30 demain. Untilt alors, je serai attendent avec impatience le moment où nos yeux d'abord répondre.

which for all of you who didn't listen to Pimsleur's French in your car last semester, means in essence:

Beautiful HB, with eyes so blue. I will arrive at your house tomorrow morning at 8:30. Until then, I will be eagerly waiting for the moment when our eyes first meet.

Now like I said, I don't do things like that very much. I used to send the girls I liked messages like that much more frequently and even do crazy things like buy them flowers.

But back to this girl. As I consider what I'm doing here, I don't feel like this fits the dynamic that most people are writing about on here or concerned about. This isn't some girl I just met at a bar and I'm worried about her flaking on me, when I should call her, what I should wear, how in the name of God I'm going to secure another date with her, ect. I have a significant amount of rapport built with this girl, but I want to know that I have her. And I'm not sure what more I could be doing than what I already am that wouldn't bring me in to AFC zone.

I do think I'm going to buy her a rose though. After thinking about it, you guys may not think that's such a good idea, but it seems like a compromise position for me compared me addressing the idea of exclusivity with her. And I can justify it. Just like I would have with any other girl, except this time my frame is more congruent with it. Ie, "I was at the store last night and saw this red rose with petals are the same shade of red as the coat you look so cute in. It made me think about how much you'd smile if it was yours and I love it when you smile... see, that smile right there... ect"

The only thing I'm concerned about, beyond being an AFC, is this: At the beginning of our interaction, she was very nice to me, but she had a lot of emotional walls surrounding herself. As those have been coming down (much in the same fashion as they have with my other girls), she's basically told me she has no idea what she wants to do with her life. She's going to graduate this summer with a BS in chemistry and has absolutely no direction or path whatsoever. I do. I know exactly what I want to do with my life, where I'm going, and what I want. And I don't want her to feign interest in me that isn't there because I happen to be the only confident, good looking, funny guy she knows who is also going to be a heart surgeon in a few years. I've become very weary of telling any girl who I may even think I want more than 1 night with that I want to be a heart surgeon or even a doctor because it changes a lot of them. They start chasing after me, not because they want me, but they want the advantages that having me is going to give them.

And it would absolutely make my day to find a some girl like her I could settle down with, buy a nice whitewash house with a picket fence, dog, and fireplace, complete with a chemistry lab just for her. I am looking for a girl that wants to be a housewife/homemaker. So great, if she doesn't know what she wants to do, I can tell her. But I want it to be because it's what she wants to do, and not because she thinks staying with me will make her life easier. There are a lot of doctors I know through my dad (who's a doctor) who have beautiful wives that sleep with them during the night and someone else during the day.

So that's really about it. As PIMP mentioned, maybe that's the problem I had with my ex fiance (beyond being a huge AFC). I showed my hand. And even though as she said, I could project very convincing fake confidence and look at her with great eye contact, and she really loved me. I really think she did. But not the right way. I gave her security and I gave her affection, but I was still an AFC. I was the same as the doctors who sleep with beautiful women at night who sleep with other men during the day. I don't want to repeat that.

Thanks for your advice everyone. I appreciate it.

 

[tafakna]

Note...I feel like if she doesn't know that I care for her rather deeply, there's a serious problem...

...then watched Beauty and the Beast...

...but I want to know that I have her...

And I'm not sure what more I could be doing than what I already am that wouldn't bring me in to AFC zone.

I do think I'm going to buy her a rose though.

And it would absolutely make my day to find a some girl like her I could settle down with, buy a nice whitewash house with a picket fence, dog, and fireplace, complete with a chemistry lab just for her. I am looking for a girl that wants to be a housewife/homemaker.

Sorry for the reality check mate, but you are way into AFC zone a very long time ago.

Short-term you might even pull this one off and get into a relationship with her. Long-term no girl will respect you, and you will be facing the same issues you did before (cheating). Best case scenario, if she's a decent girl, she will just dump you.

It will not last. You're in denial and acting like a girl.

You will hate this message now but when the hard times come you'll remember this post and learn to change your behavior.

Good luck mate. Seriously.

 

[Rubato]

Sorry for the reality check mate, but you are way into AFC zone a very long time ago.

Short-term you might even pull this one off and get into a relationship with her. Long-term no girl will respect you, and you will be facing the same issues you did before (cheating). Best case scenario, if she's a decent girl, she will just dump you.

It will not last. You're in denial and acting like a girl.

You will hate this message now but when the hard times come you'll remember this post and learn to change your behavior.

Good luck mate. Seriously.

I'll qualify this by saying you may be right.

That being said, I don't think I'm acting like a girl. Save for watching Beauty and the Beast with the girl (which can even be somewhat rationalized according to Pook's lesson that "Charm is treating women like little girls".) and making the statement that "I want to know I have her" (I'll give it to you, that's an AFC statement. But also note, I said this here, and not to her.), I don't think anything else I've done could be construed as female behavior.

Some of the most masculine men out there ballroom dance.

Teaching a girl how to do something, be it cooking, ballroom dancing, or anything else, is also a masculine behavior. It's direct leading. Having her teach you how to cook would be feminine, or simply cooking for her.

As I said in my OP, my goals are a little different than some of the other guys here. The whitewash picket fence allusion was, I thought, obviously hyperbole, but notwithstanding that, I'm tired of senseless sex. It's not fulfilling. It feels good, but for me it feels like settling for a McDonald's happy meal when you could be eating the finest cut of beef instead. We obviously don't live in the sort of society where it's acceptable for a man to start gushing over a woman he likes... and if he is really a man, he wouldn't do that anyways. The way I see it though, if after a few dates and a few weeks (that Beauty and the Beast date took place after we'd known each other for a good 2 months) I can't start actually showing some sort of mild romantic expressiveness without being "nexted", that's not what I'm looking for. I haven't gone out and bought the girl a dozen roses, written her a song, or paid a Mexican guitar player to accompany me while I serenade her outside her bedroom window.

What you've been reading in this thread is an account of the "nice" things I've done. I could have included all the dominant/leading/sexualized things I've done as well. But that wasn't the point.

So maybe you're right. Like I said, you might be. But if you are, I doubt she's what I'm looking for so it saves me a bit of trouble.