is school truly worth the money?

[insanity]

this started the war with my in-laws and i had valid points and i even looked up some statistics to prove my point. what are your thoughts on this?

Here are some truths that the colleges—which are businesses and want your money—don't want you to know:
• Of every 100 freshmen with the above profile, fewer than 25 at so-called four-year colleges will earn their bachelor's degree, even when given six years!
• Such students' time on campus is often a non-stop assault to their self-esteem, from that first class when they're already confused, to the final exam, when they experience that terror that most of us have experienced when we know we'll do badly.
• Even if such students defy the odds and graduate, they often fare poorly in the job market. There is an oversupply of bachelor's degree holders. Even many strong students struggle to find a decent job. Plenty of college degree holders are folding sweaters at the Gap for $10 an hour, driving a cab, or hawking real estate. Marginal students have an even harder time.

Let’s take a look at history and it’s greatest achievers with little or no education. for example, Jesse Ventura, Madonna, Malcolm X, Steven Spielberg, William Faulkner, Bill Gates, Eleanor Roosevelt, Leonardo DiCaprio, Maya Angelou, Barbra Streisand, Michael Dell, Jane Austen, PBS's Nina Totenberg, Walter Cronkite, Ted Turner, Bob Dylan, Pulp Fiction director Quentin Tarentino, cookie maker Debbie Fields, Dreamworks co-founder David Geffen, former Israeli president David Ben Gurion, oil billionaire John D. Rockefeller, Warren Beatty, Woody Allen, famed anthropologist Richard Leakey, astronaut and senator John Glenn, McDonald's founder Ray Kroc, Dustin Hoffman, Buckminster Fuller, Alexander Graham Bell, Wendy's Founder Dave Thomas, Walt Disney, Rosie O'Donnell, Thomas Edison, Blockbuster Video founder and owner of the Miami Dolphins Wayne Huizenga, NBC mogul David Sarnoff, Ernest Hemingway, Sally Field, architect Frank Lloyd Wright, Steve Jobs, Coco Chanel, Roots author Alex Haley, chef Wolfgang Puck, Robert Redford, John D. Rockefeller, satirist H.L Mencken, Thomas Edison, the Wright brothers, and seven presidents from Washington to Truman.

what started this war with the in-laws was one of them mentioned that without an education you can't do nothing and i said thats bs. if you believe that you need an education, then guess what- you need an education. if you have a passion that doesn't require a piece of paper, and you truly believe that you can get it, that is all the knowledge you need.

i'm a musician so creativity, innovation , and imagination are something that cannot be taught in a post secondary education.

what are your guys thoughts?

 

[Mandiblard]

I agree with you, however you can't just say "i'm not going to school" with nothing else. You've got to prove to them you can be successful elsewhere.

 

[Unregistered]

Yes and no...you don't need a degree to be successful, but it helps quite a bit.

• Of every 100 freshmen with the above profile, fewer than 25 at so-called four-year colleges will earn their bachelor's degree, even when given six years!

First, that quote is out of context: the statistic actually states that fewer than 25% of students that with the above profile i.e.scored under 950 on the SAT earned a bachelor's degree. Kind of changes things, and actually coincides with the author's actual point: not everyone is cut out for college. Not everyone is a good student. There are better options for those people. He's not saying college is some evil, stressful place that will ruin your life.


http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/articles/find/shouldyougo.asp

 

[Wiesman44]

Here are some truths that the colleges—which are businesses and want your money—don't want you to know:
• Of every 100 freshmen with the above profile, fewer than 25 at so-called four-year colleges will earn their bachelor's degree, even when given six years!

what are your guys thoughts?

I dont know what college you're looking at, but at UConn, the rate is around 95%. WHere the hell are u finding 25% ? Ghetto and redneck colleges i'd imagine.

 

[madgame]

dont know what college you're looking at, but at UConn, the rate is around 95%. WHere the hell are u finding 25% ?

I was wondering that, too. It probably has to do sometihng with the 'above profile' part..?

 

[Nocturnal]

If I go to college, get a degree in teaching, and teach high school for the rest of my life, I will be making significantly less money than a truck driver who has no degree whatsoever. So why didn't all of the high school teachers in the country skip school and go to college? Because they didn't see the excellent opportunity to be a truck driver? Or because some of them love to teach and it's worth the money?

 

[Mitch_Mustain]

I'd give college a try anyways. If you've got a passion for something try to get as knowledgable about and accredited for such a passion or hobby so you can in turn make it a career...if you're going to school for a passion it makes your time and money more useful....i dont know, i'm probably just talking out of my ass.

 

[whistler]

Look, a B.A./B.S. is like a highschool diploma these days.

If you want to ensure a career as a white collar worker, you ought to get one. Frankly, it's not as hard as it may sound at many schools. Find a decent school that doesn't cost much.

You can even take an "easy" major, like Communication or Psychology. Then you can skate through the classes and throw in some classes that really peak your interest.

True, it's not for everyone, but it is a wise move for most. I've run across many stats that show, financially, a four-year degree is well worth the investment for most people.

Those people that you mention... most of them either left college only AFTER they found a way to be successful, were exceptionally successful BEFORE college (actors), or were alive before a college education was standard for most citizens of wealthy countries.

In other words, unless you're exceptionally successful right now, your best bet is to go to college. Don't sell yourself short. You can do it.

 

[dirtyvibe]

the above profile is sat under 950 = iq under 90= really dumb people

 

[MetalFortress]

Let’s take a look at history and it’s greatest achievers with little or no education. for example, Jesse Ventura, Madonna, Malcolm X, Steven Spielberg, William Faulkner, Bill Gates, Eleanor Roosevelt, Leonardo DiCaprio, Maya Angelou, Barbra Streisand, Michael Dell, Jane Austen, PBS's Nina Totenberg, Walter Cronkite, Ted Turner, Bob Dylan, Pulp Fiction director Quentin Tarentino, cookie maker Debbie Fields, Dreamworks co-founder David Geffen, former Israeli president David Ben Gurion, oil billionaire John D. Rockefeller, Warren Beatty, Woody Allen, famed anthropologist Richard Leakey, astronaut and senator John Glenn, McDonald's founder Ray Kroc, Dustin Hoffman, Buckminster Fuller, Alexander Graham Bell, Wendy's Founder Dave Thomas, Walt Disney, Rosie O'Donnell, Thomas Edison, Blockbuster Video founder and owner of the Miami Dolphins Wayne Huizenga, NBC mogul David Sarnoff, Ernest Hemingway, Sally Field, architect Frank Lloyd Wright, Steve Jobs, Coco Chanel, Roots author Alex Haley, chef Wolfgang Puck, Robert Redford, John D. Rockefeller, satirist H.L Mencken, Thomas Edison, the Wright brothers, and seven presidents from Washington to Truman.

And for those who do make it, there are another 90,000 high school only grads who are working low-paying jobs with no future. If you are going to not go to college, you need to have something going for you (I.E. business, investing, very successful actor or musician), you can't just be a working stiff and then get rich overnight.

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

I wouldn't compare where people work NOW and the underutilization of their degrees...

I have a few friends doing things because THEY have to and because they WANT to. One friend has a Sports Degree, worked an internship with a minor ball club, spent the time largely drinking, came back North and works at a supermarket. Another one has a finance degree and MIGHT finally be breaking into his chosen field. He'd moved South, where opportunities in Finance are much less. Many finance jobs are Sales as much as they are Support, but the glut of jobs are found up North. However, a PERSISTANT person can find whatever they want. And many college kids ARE NOT persistant.

They get a degree and think employers will hold their hands out paying THEM to come work for them, over and above what they're worth. Most kids are disillusioned by what it takes to be good, to be the top, and of what Corporate America is TRULY about. They see the greed, the materialism, the Sex and the City shows, but have little concept having not worked there. More, a job or career path in HS is sold as "a lifestyle", or play acting. It's like playing a role, and dabbling to kids that age. There's no realization that UNLESS you choose something you like, or you follow your passion, you'll be miserable at ANY form of work.

And work SHOULD be something you enjoy, and doesn't have to INCLUDE a degree. That's a mistake. I have a friend who earned trade skills in HS, then opened his own Lawn Business, and adds services as he grows his company. He now plows as well, and will add on building cement and brick walls. He made his connection in his youth, and physical labor is something anyone at a young age can do rather reputably.

12-16 years of pure academics gives the student LITTLE understanding of what they're actually doing, UNLESS you do an internship or have family/friends doing it.


A-Unit

 

[Skel]

this started the war with my in-laws and i had valid points and i even looked up some statistics to prove my point. what are your thoughts on this?

Here are some truths that the colleges—which are businesses and want your money—don't want you to know:
• Of every 100 freshmen with the above profile, fewer than 25 at so-called four-year colleges will earn their bachelor's degree, even when given six years!
• Such students' time on campus is often a non-stop assault to their self-esteem, from that first class when they're already confused, to the final exam, when they experience that terror that most of us have experienced when we know we'll do badly.
• Even if such students defy the odds and graduate, they often fare poorly in the job market. There is an oversupply of bachelor's degree holders. Even many strong students struggle to find a decent job. Plenty of college degree holders are folding sweaters at the Gap for $10 an hour, driving a cab, or hawking real estate. Marginal students have an even harder time.

Let’s take a look at history and it’s greatest achievers with little or no education. for example, Jesse Ventura, Madonna, Malcolm X, Steven Spielberg, William Faulkner, Bill Gates, Eleanor Roosevelt, Leonardo DiCaprio, Maya Angelou, Barbra Streisand, Michael Dell, Jane Austen, PBS's Nina Totenberg, Walter Cronkite, Ted Turner, Bob Dylan, Pulp Fiction director Quentin Tarentino, cookie maker Debbie Fields, Dreamworks co-founder David Geffen, former Israeli president David Ben Gurion, oil billionaire John D. Rockefeller, Warren Beatty, Woody Allen, famed anthropologist Richard Leakey, astronaut and senator John Glenn, McDonald's founder Ray Kroc, Dustin Hoffman, Buckminster Fuller, Alexander Graham Bell, Wendy's Founder Dave Thomas, Walt Disney, Rosie O'Donnell, Thomas Edison, Blockbuster Video founder and owner of the Miami Dolphins Wayne Huizenga, NBC mogul David Sarnoff, Ernest Hemingway, Sally Field, architect Frank Lloyd Wright, Steve Jobs, Coco Chanel, Roots author Alex Haley, chef Wolfgang Puck, Robert Redford, John D. Rockefeller, satirist H.L Mencken, Thomas Edison, the Wright brothers, and seven presidents from Washington to Truman.

what started this war with the in-laws was one of them mentioned that without an education you can't do nothing and i said thats bs. if you believe that you need an education, then guess what- you need an education. if you have a passion that doesn't require a piece of paper, and you truly believe that you can get it, that is all the knowledge you need.

i'm a musician so creativity, innovation , and imagination are something that cannot be taught in a post secondary education.

what are your guys thoughts?

what is your source? Dont post something as fact and leave out the source.

 

[dannowillbookem]

my dad explained it to me. he didnt go to college, he works installing insulation and roofs and walls and shiit. my mom went to college and she gets paid four times as much to tell veterans they need to stop drinking.

makes sense to me. plus you can always become a preformer/whatever you want after college. google joe walsh, jerry seinfeld, john lennon etc.

 

[PRMoon]

I'm going to raddle off some of the things I've said previously in some of the other post about schools/schooling in other threads. For me at least, education is not just a means to an end for monitary growth. It's an enviroment where you get to learn about the world in general with little threats to or limiations of the expriences and learning you can attain there in. That is not to say it's a substitue for real life expiriences but you can acheive a great deal while in school with little risk to yourself. A lot of it has to do with the person you are or are trying to become tied in with the personality and drive that is installed within you. I found school to be a very productive and helpful learning enviroment that was very non threatening and user friendly. Then again I've always been very comfortable with my enviroment, no matter what the situation, mainly because I've travelled my entire life. Getting back to the point, for those who are willing and able to coupe with schooling and know how to exploit the benefits there in, staying in school can and doubtlessly will be the best spring board available for you to take on life with a running start. However there are those out there, and it's certainly not a small number of people, who have all the tools necessary to make a very sucessful run without school and will do very well for themselves in their own right.

 

[siph]

bro.....
that is more bull**** than i've ever seen written on this website before
obvioulsy you never went to college, you know nothing about it and I don't even know where to begin on your post.

listen to everyone else buddy

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

FK it--- the majority of students go to college in order to find a career. Very few people go just to learn and to become cultured and all that bs.

College will be a waste of time if you pick a bs major like poli sci, sociology, criminal justice, psych, english...

If you pick a BS major you HAVE to obtain some kind of professional degree (jd) or you will end up making the same as idiots with GED's.

Attending college was the absolute worst mistake that I have ever. I should have concentrated on my own business idea while living for free under my parents roof. A degree helps, but not as much as people think...

 

[CLOONEY]

If anyone here thinks going to university is not going to improve their opportunities, both in choice and monetary aspects in the career market, go and research it and get back to me?

I own both bachelor degrees in management and am an economist, so I have researched this in depth. And its without doubt that the average lifetime earnings of a graduate is MUCH HIGHER than someone without.

That being said, certain degrees are far more valuable than others.

 

[insanity]

of course people are going to defend their educational beliefs, because they spent their hard earned money on it. it's like people that buy a videogame and it gets horrible reviews. those people defend it because they like to think their money was well spent even though it wasn't.

like i said many times before, the people that say you need an education are the people who have failed at life or scraping by or just making a living. but those people have no dreams or passions or goals. they just want money and without those three characteristics they fail.

i'm sure the people who got the most out of their education had those three characteristics and it had to do with what they loved. so maybe education was right for you.

i am proud of my friends that succeed in school and when somebody has a gift for math or whatever...it's awesome. when you discover your talent or gift and actually use it to it's full potential....that is amazing. education has nothing to do with what you were born to do. it's what you believe that will make the difference in the end

 

[belividere]

This topic gets beaten to death on this forum.

You seriously started the list of people who are successful without degrees with Jesse Ventura and then Madonna?

And how come evertime this gets brought up the idea is justified with a list of people who are wealthy without degrees? These people are a fraction of a percent of people. Like Whistler said, these people are thinkers. It is not fair to take these few outlying people and compare them to the rest of the world. Thats like me skipping college to join the NBA draft. I'm short and cant hit a jumpshot, but other people can successfully do it and sign million dollar contracts out of high school so why cant I?

 

[insanity]

maybe because you think you can't. don't be so limiting towards yourself. it's like a couple a weeks ago this big guy kept on hitting on this short guys girlfriend at a pub. he kept putting the little guy down in front of his woman. finally the little guy stepped up and said if he didn't shut his mouth he would shut it for him. the big guy laughed and the little guy went outside and whopped the big guy to shame. it was really awesome.