Is it really the end of this relationship?

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by TillTheEndOfTime
Have you even read what he wrote? This girl is obviously unreasonable and selfish. She's also a drama queen. There is nothing to overcome. He is FAR better off without her. Good riddance. I got annoyed with her just reading what he said.
Did you read his second post that went on to elaborate on their interactions? He was behaving no better than she was. As someone who was married to someone for ten years who played this expectations game (among many others) I have a lot of experience on this particular issue. This issue COULD have been worked out IF both parties involved were willing to put the effort in to fix it. The girl in this case either can't or won't do that, so he needs to move on immediately and end the relationship, because staying with someone who isn't willing to put the effort in to make things work is just wasting your time.

I often advise guys to attempt to work things out not because I think everything can be resolved and worked out...but because it gives them EXPERIENCE in dealing with a variety of issues. If you constantly "Next" at the first sign of any issues or problems you don't learn a damn thing.
 

TillTheEndOfTime

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
Did you read his second post that went on to elaborate on their interactions? He was behaving no better than she was. As someone who was married to someone for ten years who played this expectations game (among many others) I have a lot of experience on this particular issue. This issue COULD have been worked out IF both parties involved were willing to put the effort in to fix it. The girl in this case either can't or won't do that, so he needs to move on immediately and end the relationship, because staying with someone who isn't willing to put the effort in to make things work is just wasting your time.

I often advise guys to attempt to work things out not because I think everything can be resolved and worked out...but because it gives them EXPERIENCE in dealing with a variety of issues. If you constantly "Next" at the first sign of any issues or problems you don't learn a damn thing.
Well if they both act like that they should next themselves. There is nothing to learn when both parties act like children.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by TillTheEndOfTime
Well if they both act like that they should next themselves. There is nothing to learn when both parties act like children.
Actually...you learn the most about how to have good relationships from the experiences you have in the bad ones.
 
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It’s all about her – her wants – her desires – her needs – her feelings - this is a sign of selfishness and is the worst trait in a woman!! This is an issue of control!!!!

It is because you find her so physically attractive sexually that you are putting up with so much drama from this woman – you wouldn’t do so if she was just an 'average looking’ girl!!

Here is my advice to young minds - never let a woman control or even attempt to control you; the man is the leader and the woman follows at ALL times!!! If a woman argues constantly over petty shyt it is because SHE WANTS TO CONTROL YOU!!!

Many women want you to submit to their desires and dictates at the expense of your manhood of which every woman knows that a man's underlying strength is his power of DOMINION over the woman - if she can break this natural innate 'dominion' of a man then she will usurp the power in the relationship. A woman does not have the physical power to control a man so she must use other methods - to make a man feel 'guilt' is one of these methods.

JB, she is trying to make you feel guilty and put the blame on you - a submissive woman wouldn't do this but today's woman is more masculine than feminine and submission is NOT a masculine trait ............

Say "No" to masculine HOS!!!!!!!!!!!
 

MacDiddy

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Nice post PRL:

Start being selfish... Your happiness is in your hands and telling her that is pointlessly putting it back into her hands... Stop worrying about her and start being selfish...
 

disguise

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Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
It’s all about her – her wants – her desires – her needs – her feelings - this is a sign of selfishness and is the worst trait in a woman!! This is an issue of control!!!!
PRL, you simplify things too much. That advice is helpful in a STR, but the rules are different in a LTR.

Both sexes come into an LTR with basic human needs and a lot of childhood wounds. The (simplified) psychological explanation for this is all to be found in the relationship a person has with their opposite-sex parent. The relationship you described sounds like a typical pursuer/distancer situation. One partner (usually the female) has a history of being emotionally distanced by her father, and subsequently becomes an emotional pursuer, and acts in a smothering way - demanding more and more attention from the male. The problem is that as part of the psychological healing process, she will have subconciously chosen a male who has the same or similar traits as her father. Those traits are typically that his mother (also usually a pursuer) has smothered him, and for survival he has needed to establish his separate identity by emotionally distancing himself. (He too, will subconciously choose a pursuer female, as his psyche is trying to heal emotional wounds from his own childhood)

Herein lies the problem.
Breaking it off and finding another partner may help, but it wont deal with the underlying problems that cause these issues to surface in the first place. And those same underlying problems will cause you to repeat the pattern - so the next girl you feel really attracted to emotionally will have the same issues as your current/previous one.

It sounds like there has been a lot of emotional investment in this relationship, and that you can see a lot of good qualities in this girl that have made you want to make the extra effort. Whether you choose to stay with her or find someone else let me recommend 2 books that will make a dramatic difference to the quality of ALL your future relationships.

1. "Keeping the love you find" Harville Hendrix PhD
2. "The five love languages" Gary Chapman

Hope it's helpful.
 

MacDiddy

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PRL, you simplify things too much. That advice is helpful in a STR, but the rules are different in a LTR.
And you'd rather make it more complex... Give me the simple life any day...
Both sexes come into an LTR with basic human needs and a lot of childhood wounds. The (simplified) psychological explanation for this is all to be found in the relationship a person has with their opposite-sex parent.

<Snip>
You're asking for a little sympathy by understanding that there is a cause for the way she behaves... but who cares... We men should be driven by results and this is far from the bargain that was anticipated... Better can be gotten at a cheaper emotional cost!!!

It sounds like there has been a lot of emotional investment in this relationship, and that you can see a lot of good qualities in this girl that have made you want to make the extra effort.
From a purely neutral position, I don't see alot of good qualities that outweigh the bad.

Men will not readily give up a fcuk and will come up with whatever validations they can to support their current decision to stay... Emotional investment is old school male thinking in a time when women were more feminine and worth it.. Times have changed and women are no longer regarding emotional investment as adequate currency to stay in relationships themselves... It use to be women (housewifes) putting in a huge effort in maintaining the relationships against the tide of cheating husbands, but now the tides has turned...

so the next girl you feel really attracted to emotionally will have the same issues as your current/previous one.
Only if you accept that... and allow those issues to once again develop... The underlying issue is that he is AFC... In a relationship where she has accepted him for his AFCness..... How he can change all that in the short term is difficult...
 

jbbrain

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The underlying issue is that he is AFC... In a relationship where she has accepted him for his AFCness..... How he can change all that in the short term is difficult...
[/B][/QUOTE]


Uhh, no, actually I'm no way near being afc. I'm definitely not average, yeah maybe this situation is a little frustrating but uhhhhhh...I don't see myself being a chump about this.

No offense, but by seeing the advice that you spat out regarding this issue (or any issue), I don't see u in any position to denounce me as some emasculated wimp. There is no underlying issue near what you assume it to be. The issue more appears to be the inability to really read and understand what's going on and give good constructive feedback about it.

I'm not knockin u dude, but you got me all wrong.
 

MacDiddy

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No offence taken... and no offence intended on my part....

You're a little stung by the AFC call... that's to be expected when you hear some advice that you didn't want to hear...

jbbrain wrote :
Then, a new trend started forming. She would do certain things I would consider to be fvcking direspectful (blowing off new years plans with me because she got invited to a once in life time mtv new years eve party...ok ok...it wasnt a direct blowoff but the way she let me know of her change of plans was imo completely uncool) ..she once withheld sex from me for 3 weeks because she was on anti biotics and couldnt take the pill all the while knowing perfectly she had condoms in her bedside drawer...anyways..shyt like this and more of it.
Wouldn't this be your average frustration???... Now have I still got you wrong???

There is no underlying issue near what you assume it to be. The issue more appears to be the inability to really read and understand what's going on and give good constructive feedback about it.
The underlying issue "here" is that I called you AFC... perhaps not the constructive feedback you were looking for.... but nonetheless, I read what I read and all I saw was alot of drama which you took like a good AFC should.. I would have next her ass for good a long long time ago... You on the other hand have only just reached such a decision...
 

jbbrain

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dude, why would i be defensive about this?

you're an anonymous poster on an anonymous board...

the point is: I've been here a long time (not that that necessarily means anything on its own) and I'm far from being anything close to an average frustrated chump. Sure, there are times in relationships that really feel liek the worst of times. Sometimes u deal with shyt, and SOMETIMES u live with it for the time being because that person means that much to you.

But you would obviously know this seeing that you have a very healthy perspective that could've only come to you through years of relationship experience...

Thanks for all the advice buddy..but like I said way before, you got me all wrong.
Not that it 'really' matters what u, or anybody else thinks anyways, right?
Regardless, I appreciate your feedback
 

Don Juanabbe

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Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
It’s all about her – her wants – her desires – her needs – her feelings - this is a sign of selfishness and is the worst trait in a woman!! This is an issue of control!!!!

It is because you find her so physically attractive sexually that you are putting up with so much drama from this woman – you wouldn’t do so if she was just an 'average looking’ girl!!

Here is my advice to young minds - never let a woman control or even attempt to control you; the man is the leader and the woman follows at ALL times!!! If a woman argues constantly over petty shyt it is because SHE WANTS TO CONTROL YOU!!!

Many women want you to submit to their desires and dictates at the expense of your manhood of which every woman knows that a man's underlying strength is his power of DOMINION over the woman - if she can break this natural innate 'dominion' of a man then she will usurp the power in the relationship. A woman does not have the physical power to control a man so she must use other methods - to make a man feel 'guilt' is one of these methods.

JB, she is trying to make you feel guilty and put the blame on you - a submissive woman wouldn't do this but today's woman is more masculine than feminine and submission is NOT a masculine trait ............

Say "No" to masculine HOS!!!!!!!!!!!
This is some serious advice that needs to be taken to heart by all DJs.

PRL has described what I had to learn about my ex the hard way.

She was a selfish, spoiled, resentful manly b*tch.

Thank god I got out of that relationship.
 

pimpin_since_85

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thats too much sh*t to be reading...lol...paraphrase or summarize next time...

...but from what I did read, I'd say f*ck it...leave her alone
 

Blue Phoenix

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Originally posted by PuertoRican_Lover
It’s all about her – her wants – her desires – her needs – her feelings - this is a sign of selfishness and is the worst trait in a woman!! This is an issue of control!!!!
Those people are called narcissists (NPD)!!!
Originally posted by jbbrain
Men,

I couldn't stand the double standards she was imposing on our relationship. In a nutshell, she would get angry/upset over something I would do (or more in her case, the things I would not do...she complained relentlessly that I kept on disappointing her; which really meant she didnt like it when i didnt do something she wanted me to do) meanwhile exhibiting the EXACT behaviour she herself stated she hated to see in me. She wanted to have her cake and it eat it too and by the end I was sick and tired of her nagging and her chastising while I felt I was making genuine efforts for the wellbeing of 'us' while she herself was on the verge (IMO) of taking me for granted..arguments often ensued like this one:

"Babe, you nag and harrass me so much, but take a look at yourself...WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY? Only, I don't complain about it ...why are u so selfish?"

Ahhh, see, communication apparently was not our strongest attribute. Crying would ALWAYS ensue after this classic argument and I would always be accused of making her feel like shyt, unloved, and even 'hated' when all along i'm trying to explain to her, "HEY, DON'T YOU KNOW, YOU'RE BRINGING THIS ALL ON YOURSELF!?" I got sick and tired of "disappointing her" while she sat back and did shyt all for the relationship (with slightly disrespectful actions sprinkled along the way), and I wanted out.

1 week of begging and pleading later, I go back with her. Shyt was good for awhile and for the first time in awhile we were both putting heaps of effort in this. Then, a new trend started forming. She would do certain things I would consider to be fvcking direspectful ...
They are selfish; want massive attention, praise; are compulsive liers and VERY controlling. When you don't do what they want they start to manipulate you by being b!tchy, moody, making bad faces, getting irated, shouting, making you feel as if it was your fault, all in an attempt to make you do what they want! :mad:

They are the WORST!

PRL is right. She wants you to be submissive, don't let it happen. Get away from narcissists, they're parasites!
 
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MrHarris

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Originally posted by pimpin_since_85
thats too much sh*t to be reading...lol...paraphrase or summarize next time...

...but from what I did read, I'd say f*ck it...leave her alone
I agree. As my buddy say's f*ck that ho and just walk away and say NO.
 

NewMan

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This shyt is still going on?

Your both as bad as each other - playing little passive agressive games.

..she once withheld sex from me for 3 weeks because she was on anti biotics and couldnt take the pill all the while knowing perfectly she had condoms in her bedside drawer...anyways..shyt like this and more of it.

This is just an example of her playing power games with you.

It had nothing to do with anti-Biotics - it had to do with her not wanting to fvck you.

And that's due to her not respecting you as a man (and that maybe not your fault - it could be that she's just a b#tch).

A woman who respect's her man doesn't treat them like this.

I really don't think there is anything you can do here to reverse all of this.

But there is something you should do for your own self respect - and that's not take this crap. It's childish. And it doesn't get you anywhere except deeper into it.

the point is: I've been here a long time (not that that necessarily means anything on its own) and I'm far from being anything close to an average frustrated chump. Sure, there are times in relationships that really feel liek the worst of times. Sometimes u deal with shyt, and SOMETIMES u live with it for the time being because that person means that much to you.
That there is typical how guys think.

Whilst your think this - she's getting over you already. Preparing to move on. She probably already made the decision.

Meanwhile - your trying to work sh#t out.

and you will be left picking up the pieces when she walks out.

Why? because all of this is on her terms.

Most men can't see the forest for the tree's in relationships.

You need to take control of things - and stop thinking about such things as "Time" "How much I've put in" "She means to me".... because when it 'ain't working, it 'ain't working.

Women will not be so logical.
 

A-Unit

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Re:

Keep in mind, guys, we're only getting 1 piece of a 2 part story. Just b/c you post at sosuave, doesn't make you innocent before being guilty, nor are you immune from being a d!ck.


What I read was alot of double speak. You claim to desire and see yourself as a certain type of person, but you never acted as you saw yourself. Comments were said how you didn't want to be a jerk, or how you wanted to communicate, or yada, yada, yada, yet time and time again you ended up at the same place.


Moreso, you never resolved the fights. You let them linger. Even if she chose to, it did not mean you had to. 90% of all people who let fights linger past the day they occur BREAKUP or have UNHEALTHY relationships.


If you claim love its false love. Love, and the emotions you've proclaimed to have, though are false, does not judge, does not impose restrictions or demands, and does not get angered as you displayed over '' not getting sex b/c of B/C and antibiotics."


Just b/c you poured your heart into a gift does not make it the end of the world. I'd rather someone be honest, than find out months later it was all fake. Learn to toughen up on those issues. Married couples tell each other point blank they don't like something christmas morning, even if it took than 11 shopping months to find it. Because it isn't the gift that counts, it's the thought. HOWEVER, no gift will have value if she has unexpressed issues. Good job on trying, though.


Sometimes u deal with shyt, and SOMETIMES u live with it for the time being because that person means that much to you.

I wouldn't peg you as an AFC, b/c that's precisely what she wants. She'd get along with an AFC. HOWEVER, it's surprising on your part 'why' you stayed'. The only piece of you that cared for her was the illusion. Perhaps after the fact you liked her, or when she was gone you saw her crying, but never the image of her lashing out. I, too, had a relationship like this.


For no known reason she'd withdraw sex, as if I was with her for 2 years ONLY for sex. We'd fight over petty things and she was naturally jealous because she'd been cheated on before. Any girl who roamed into my apartment, friend or a friend of another roomie, she'd put on me as a fwb. It took realizing she put false guilt on me for unknown reasons. I was to be her source of happiness.


Things...


You both have expectations of what you want in relationships that can't be filled by each other. THe illusion is well and nice, and for a time, when you work hard and ACT out what should be done, you make headway. But then you fall back into a routine of who you are and the fighting commences. The only reason you've stuck around isn't love, or compassion, it's habit and time. No matter how bad it is, it represents time in your young life, so letting it go is hard. Even with the bad times you've gotten used to her being around. The comfort of who she is.



I'm not you, and I don't see what she sees...but there isn't anything to be done here. A smart guy, guy who cares about his happiness, who proclaims to be something more than a jerk and a prick, would move on and tell her kindly you can't fulfill her emotional or relationship needs. And that you're sorry, you'll move on and hope you'll remain friends. Putting it on her will only incite further fighting.




A-Unit
 

jbbrain

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Re: Re:

Originally posted by A-Unit



You both have expectations of what you want in relationships that can't be filled by each other. THe illusion is well and nice, and for a time, when you work hard and ACT out what should be done, you make headway. But then you fall back into a routine of who you are and the fighting commences. The only reason you've stuck around isn't love, or compassion, it's habit and time. No matter how bad it is, it represents time in your young life, so letting it go is hard. Even with the bad times you've gotten used to her being around. The comfort of who she is.

I'm not you, and I don't see what she sees...but there isn't anything to be done here. A smart guy, guy who cares about his happiness, who proclaims to be something more than a jerk and a prick, would move on and tell her kindly you can't fulfill her emotional or relationship needs. And that you're sorry, you'll move on and hope you'll remain friends. Putting it on her will only incite further fighting.

A-Unit
Hey man, you seem to be coming from much experience and I have to applaud you on a very smart and insightful reply. I think you coined exactly why I was staying with her this whole time, and I think you gave really good advice of what needs to be done about it all.

I think this post just seemed the most 'real', as something I can relate to. Honestly, I'm super impressed.
 
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