Is divorce really as big of a risk as the statistics say?

[SW15]

With that said, I would be seeking divorce or at least checking out if I were denied sex in my marriage. I don’t know why men tolerate that.

I don't know why men tolerate that either. It's common in marriages for men to try to initiate sex and rarely get sex from their wives.

This is definitely happening when the relationship is 5+ years long.

Am I wrong in thinking you have conveyed goodness is mostly from sex front and center even though you wrote item 3?

Sex is most important until the man's testosterone drops enough that he is less interested in sex.

If all relationships truly should end after five years, children would be utter fooking basketcases from parents going through one relationship after the other? How would people even parent at all!

Relationships tend to enter a decay phase after the 5 year anniversary (if they manage to even last to 5 years).

There are some relationships that can withstand some amount of decay after 5 years. It's less common but it happens.

It's quite common for relationships to last a long time in the decay/zombie phase. Plenty of couples are still staying together for the sake of the children or based on inertia from the oppressive mortgage and other trappings of married life.

There are some parents that do some amount of relationship jumping.

 

[The_Sea_Wolf]

This sounds great, but why would any woman agree to give you all the leverage? Presumably that's what your post sounds like.

Because you are going to pay for her needs up front, you are going to financially support her.

That is your end of the contract.

 

[zekko]

I don't think you can eliminate the risk, or even mitigate it beyond a certain point. I mean, certain behaviors will probably almost ensure you get divorced, but beyond that I think the roll of the dice is just part of the deal.

I think the only solution is to be so freaking wealthy that even if you lost half your money you'd still be able to laugh all the way to the bank. Like if you were a billionaire, for instance. But it's rare for someone that wealthy to lose half.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Child support obligations are not a valid part of a prenuptial agreement and that's in every state. Anyone telling you that there is a loophole via prenup is some YouTube jackass and not an actual lawyer. In some states, the law will say child support may be waived in a prenup, but that is only if the prenup provides for more generous child support than the courts would order. If making a woman sign a paper got you out of child support, every guy would be doing it.

 

[itouchyou]

Child support obligations are not a valid part of a prenuptial agreement and that's in every state. Anyone telling you that there is a loophole via prenup is some YouTube jackass and not an actual lawyer. In some states, the law will say child support may be waived in a prenup, but that is only if the prenup provides for more generous child support than the courts would order. If making a woman sign a paper got you out of child support, every guy would be doing it.

I get the child support argument, I wouldn't fight that in court. What I'm most worried about is asset division.. I've heard stories of women getting pretty much everything and leaving the man close to homeless.

 

[DJ Novice]

As @SW15 notes the passage of time is the biggest relationship killer.

In my case the single woman I met 20 years ago was not the same 20 years later after having and raising 2 children plus menopause and all the other stressors (mortgage etc.) that a marriage brings. People change over time, attraction fades, resentment sets in over concessions made (particularly over sex) or personality traits that were initially tolerable but are now annoying and different things may become important to each party.

I think staleness/boredom and just being with the same person for so long can’t be overlooked. It’s amazing how your sex drive and desire increases when you date someone much younger and attractive than your ex wife who actually appreciates you. The novelty of someone new is a big factor.

I think divorce is often the price that is paid for being married and raising children but having kids myself the only thing I regret is not having a prenup in place (I did ok as part of the divorce settlement but could have done better).

 

[itouchyou]

I've been looking at youtube for some general consensus on prenups and it seems surprisingly that most people, some even women, aren't opposed to the idea.

I think if it is presented from the man to the woman in a loving way such that the reasoning is delicately provided, any woman with pure intentions would be ok with it.

Brings me some relief, unless you guys disagree?

 

[Bible_Belt]

I've been looking at youtube for some general consensus on prenups and it seems surprisingly that most people, some even women, aren't opposed to the idea.

I think if it is presented from the man to the woman in a loving way such that the reasoning is delicately provided, any woman with pure intentions would be ok with it.

Brings me some relief, unless you guys disagree?

The agreement needs to be drafted with the idea that someday you might be in front of a judge trying to convince them that it is fair so they won't toss it. They like independent legal advice, ie both sides have a different lawyer to consult over the prenup before signing it. And if you are a high wage earner for a stay at home spouse, it is better to provide reasonable and temporary alimony obligations in the prenup than to let a judge decide that later.

 

[BPH]

It's not just the greater than 50% divorce rate, it's also how many of those remaining marriages are happy. Marriage has rather slim odds for long-term happiness. Consider getting a prenup, so you don't have a 50% chance to lose 50% of your assets.

If you're interested in the intersection between red pill and divorce, maybe you should watch Rollo Tomassi ("The Rational Male") interviewing divorce lawyer James Sexton.

This guy's interview with Soft White Underbelly was fantastic...

As for the OP's question, I brought this interview up in a discussion with my cousins regarding prenups.

I have a younger cousin dating a rich guy, and at the beginning of the conversation, she didn't understand what a prenup was and stated she was for it. By the end of the conversation when she realized that a prenup meant she would NOT automatically get half of the guy's worth if the marriage ended in divorce, she changed her mind and said she would not sign one.

I think that mentality is shared by most women, and should make you think twice about making a contractual commitment.

 

[The Duke]

Fellas, there are no guarantees for anything in life. What needs to change is the expectation that marriage should last forever. Thats the biggest fallacy society keeps swallowing.

You can vet everything under the sun and still fail.

Why do we need marriage? Whats the benefit? How do you mitigate risks? Who does marriage benefit most?

Have you ever wondered why a marriage contract isn't more like a business contract? Its the only contract where one side can behave poorly and it doesn't void the contract and they still get a payout. And why not make marriage contracts that go up for renewal every 5-10yrs?

 

[Manure Spherian]

Why do we need marriage?

The primary reason for marriage WAS to establish fatherhood, which is damn important because without this establishment, women can simply run off with men’s children with no ramification. Fatherhood (not simply being a biological father or sperm donor), unlike motherhood, is imposed on women and children, whether people like the way that’s put or not.

Past that the government should not (but it does plenty) interfere with the workings of a home and family.

I think divorced should be allowed and that whoever initiates it without fault of the other spouse should have zero custody of the kids.

And no, I’m not a tradcon.

 

[pipeman84]

I've been looking at youtube for some general consensus on prenups and it seems surprisingly that most people, some even women, aren't opposed to the idea.

I think if it is presented from the man to the woman in a loving way such that the reasoning is delicately provided, any woman with pure intentions would be ok with it.

A woman could say that a guy with pure intentions wouldn't think of a prenup.

I have a younger cousin dating a rich guy, and at the beginning of the conversation, she didn't understand what a prenup was and stated she was for it. By the end of the conversation when she realized that a prenup meant she would NOT automatically get half of the guy's worth if the marriage ended in divorce, she changed her mind and said she would not sign one.

If I'm not mistaken, the woman gets half of the guy's wealth produced during the marriage. It's not like he marries with 20M of family money, he travels and plays video games for a year, making no money, then the wife divorces and gets half of that 20M. She would get half of nothing, meaning nothing.

So the prenup is basically for the rich guys who keep making money after they got married. So this is the part that I don't get: if you're rich enough to consider a prenup, then it means you're experienced in dealing with people and have knowledge of how the world works. That means you should be able to spot a gold digger after the first or second date. Even if she's an Oscar worthy actress, she can't fake it more than a couple months. If she's of poor character, why marry her and rely on a prenup to save you instead of just ditching the hoe and find a proper girl? And if you don't find one, then just don't marry, it's not like it's mandatory.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Fellas, there are no guarantees for anything in life. What needs to change is the expectation that marriage should last forever. Thats the biggest fallacy society keeps swallowing.

You can vet everything under the sun and still fail.

Why do we need marriage? Whats the benefit? How do you mitigate risks? Who does marriage benefit most?

Have you ever wondered why a marriage contract isn't more like a business contract? Its the only contract where one side can behave poorly and it doesn't void the contract and they still get a payout. And why not make marriage contracts that go up for renewal every 5-10yrs?

It used to check bad behavior until no fault divorce.

 

[Divorced w 3]

The primary reason for marriage WAS to establish fatherhood, which is damn important because without this establishment, women can simply run off with men’s children with no ramification. Fatherhood (not simply being a biological father or sperm donor), unlike motherhood, is imposed on women and children, whether people like the way that’s put or not.

Past that the government should not (but it does plenty) interfere with the workings of a home and family.

I think divorced should be allowed and that whoever initiates it without fault of the other spouse should have zero custody of the kids.

And no, I’m not a tradcon.

Marriage was invented to secure the transfer of property, millennia ago during times of war, and its social construct was developed alongside it to merge members of classes to ensure the continuance of lineage and transfer wealth.

If one’s purpose in the relationship is not to ensure the above then they have no business getting married.

It’s lost a massive amount of utility with the passage of no fault divorce. Risk in marriage now is massive.

 

[Aristippus]

To Original Poster,

Women worth your time will agree to any reasonable conditions given the right circumstances and how it is presented.

As far as marriage goes I took a carefully calculated risk when I got married and have been for over 15 years. We have a good sex life and good relationship. Nothing is perfect but there is much more good than bad in our relationship.

You have to find a woman that you're sexually compatible with to make it work. Among other things. Does she act eager for sex? Does she say "Thank you." or make comments about how much she enjoys sex with you? (These are questions you ask yourself when reviewing her behavior.)

In other areas, is she always set on having things her way or does she willing to compromise? Is she willing to work things out after an arguement or to make up quickly? Or does she act hateful for days after an arguement? Does she cook for you on a regular basis and do household chores that women are supposed to do? There are other things to look for. That's just scratching the surface.

 

[Divorced w 3]

If she was rich, why did you end up getting financially ruined?

I’ll add to this, pressure makes diamonds. I got lazy and content living off the family money. I’m a national caliber salesman now at a massive company. My commission this month will be more than a lot of guys will make this year. My side hustle brought in $150k last year. I don’t lose, it’s not in my vocabulary, it’s a disease and I am immune to it. I will fight tooth and nail for my kids. They’re the only reason I get out of bed and fvck her father if he thought he was going to get me to tap out. What I texted that man a couple months into the processing you wouldn’t even believe. I told him what his wife wanted to do and how she wanted to do it. I have many screws lose but losing ain’t one of them.

I still by no means recommend divorce and by extension ill -thought out marriage.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Marriage was invented to secure the transfer of property, millennia ago during times of war, and its social construct was developed alongside it to merge members of classes to ensure the continuance of lineage and transfer wealth.

Yes, that included.

 

[FlirtLife]

Why do you think so many celebrities got fleeced in their divorces? Were they simply too naïve to not have a prenup?

From listening to James Sexton (divorce lawyer), they make any number of mistakes. Steven Spielberg wrote a prenup on a napkin, with his fiance given no legal representation before signing.

"The union of filmmaker Steven Spielberg and actress Amy Irving was short-lived, lasting from 1985 to 1989, but the divorce payout was far from minimal. The two had signed a prenup on a scrap of paper, but Irving invalidated the agreement in court, claiming that she hadn’t received attorney representation. The law fell on her side, and under California’s community property statute, Irving received $100 million from Spielberg, according to Forbes. The lesson here is that if you sign a prenup, make sure it’s legally enforceable."

James Sexton says the most expensive prenup he ever did cost $3,000 (and his clients include billionaires). He mentions legal representation for both parties, some disclosure of assets, willingness to put it in both people's native language.

 

[Skyline]

It's really been weighing on me as a guy who's ready to settle down. I'm seeing someone right now and don't know if I actually ever want to get married.

The statistics say that the divorce rate is around 50-56%, and 80% of the time it's the woman who initiates the divorce. So considering I would likely never pursue divorce myself, if there are 100 marriages and half of them result in divorces that's 50 divorces. 40 of those divorces are initiated by women. So I would wager the probability of me getting divorced is 40% if I ignore all the individual factors of my marriage.

The thing I notice is the following which I believe contributes greatly to this statistic:

1) A lot of guys getting married aren't top tier men, physically. Out of shape, balding, unattractive face, etc.
2) A lot of guys getting married are marrying women with no jobs, or low paying jobs, resulting in financial problems for the family. This incentivizes women to divorce because they get a payout, whereas a woman who makes good money wouldn't be as willing to throw it all away just for a bit more.
3) A lot of guys getting married simply don't understand female nature. They have no game and are basically nice guys. This kills attraction.
4) The women that these guys are marrying are predatory women who slept around in their 20s and started getting desperate as they got older. They settled so they could have the wedding and the kids but didn't think things through long term.

So all that being said; can that 40% number be mitigated by the following, to the point that divorce is almost a non issue?

1) Be in the top 10% of men physically.
2) Make good money and marry a women who makes similar or even more money.
3) Understand female nature and don't be a simp.
4) Vet the woman carefully. Make sure she's not the type that slept around in her youth and tries to settle later on.
5) Stay close to her family.

I look at celebrities who have gone through divorce and it doesn't make the situation appear any better. Guys that are rich, famous, and extremely good looking are facing the same fate. Only thing I can think of is that the women they picked are trash, or that they themselves relied on being rich/famous/attractive to carry their relationship, but never developed any game.

What's the solution?

Marriage is for poor/undesirable people. Famous people date each other because they make money from it through headlines/clout. Maybe don’t cling to outdated ideas? With what you wrote down I’d imagine you have been burned a lot. Women can sense resentment a mile away and it will only be a matter of time before the mask drops.

You are not even willing to walk away from a woman by you admitting that you would never initiate a divorce. Who’s really in control of your life because it doesn’t seem to be you?

I don’t worry about statistics like the ones you brought up because I know I’m desirable and will always have options regardless of divorce rates or feminism.

You should have the same mindset or try to achieve that.

 

[DJ Novice]

During my marriage the time spent raising and playing with my kids was the most happiest and most fulfilling time of my life to date. Sex didn’t even come close and I didn’t really miss it at all.

It was only when my kids became much older (high school age) that the quality and quantity of sex and being physically attracted to my wife became an issue. Even now I’m dating someone younger, more attractive and more sexually adventurous I still miss the times I had with my children when they were younger more.

I think without some form of purpose in your life than p*ssy (whether that be raising a family or something else) then you won’t truly find happiness or fulfilment.

Sex only takes up a very small part of your life in reality (but it’s still important that small part is great!) and as you get older the desire for it to the exclusion of or at the expense of everything else decreases (unless you are on TRT).