"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"
She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.
You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.
She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.
The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.
Internet Dating
- Thread starter Mirage
- Start date
"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"
You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.
She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.
Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.
Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.
She just replied 
(she's 21 too and I'm 33 so I really didn't expect a reply):
Here's what she said:
"Hi!
It's the most recent photo I could find (referring to the bowling picture, humour goes a long way).
I would prefer if we talked together for a while before, I'd feel more secure."
P.S.: you are sort of cute."
Does this fall in the "we barely know each other category"? Seems like it to me.
(she's 21 too and I'm 33 so I really didn't expect a reply):Here's what she said:
"Hi!
It's the most recent photo I could find (referring to the bowling picture, humour goes a long way).
I would prefer if we talked together for a while before, I'd feel more secure."
P.S.: you are sort of cute."
Does this fall in the "we barely know each other category"? Seems like it to me.
Man thats a bummer dude good exchange though! Good luck with that i just have no idea how to continue that without bringing it into a big long drawn out boring conversation, where its just you forcing conversation because she asked you to until she loses interest and stops answering. Maybe ask her to talk on the phone sometime saying you dont like going back and forth on text?
Good job! Though asking out immediately seems a bit too soon ish. (and hence her reaction)
did she post any of her interests?
get her going talking about what she's into, then find ways to compliment them. She will feel secure in no time.
Don't worry about the getting to know part, that can happen within 3 or 4 msgs. So after 3 or 4 just tell her she seems like a cool chick and hit her up for a time and place to meetup.
I've had success that way most of the time.
did she post any of her interests?
get her going talking about what she's into, then find ways to compliment them. She will feel secure in no time.
Don't worry about the getting to know part, that can happen within 3 or 4 msgs. So after 3 or 4 just tell her she seems like a cool chick and hit her up for a time and place to meetup.
I've had success that way most of the time.
To the "get more comfortable" I'd reply, "why not get comfortable over a drink and small plate at [cool place women like near her]? let's talk, send me your number or if you'd rather call me, mine is xxxxxxx."
I have great success with this, but targeting at least late 20s women, usually early 30s. YMMV. I can recall only one woman who didn't give me the number after my second email, but then my profile is designed towards "it's just a date, be ready to go out and have fun." I also have a profession perceived as more responsible so that may help.
I have great success with this, but targeting at least late 20s women, usually early 30s. YMMV. I can recall only one woman who didn't give me the number after my second email, but then my profile is designed towards "it's just a date, be ready to go out and have fun." I also have a profession perceived as more responsible so that may help.
"You'll Never Feel READY to Walk Over"
Next Monday you'll feel more confident. After the gym you'll feel more confident. After one more drink you'll feel more confident. After you get a better haircut, a better jacket, a better job.
You've been "getting ready" for two years.
She's standing ten feet away right now. She'll be gone in four minutes. No amount of preparation will manufacture the courage that only comes from moving your feet.
Walk over. Stumble through the first sentence. Let it be clumsy. Let it be imperfect. You will feel more alive in those ten seconds than you have all month.
She deleted her profile before I wrote her anything.
@pdx1138:
Hi!
I won't go over 2 messages (including the first message) from now on. It's not worth it I don't think. I'm glad it's working good for you though!
I'm still unsure about the compliment... I mean, not sure it's such a good idea. A gut feeling you might say.
@Espi: Yup, a good learning experience. I agree about the jumping through hoops thing. How do you feel about compliments?
@dasein: Good reply. I like it.
How do you get a woman to show her picture in private (for those who won't show their pictures in public) so that it doesn't need three weeks to coax her in agreeing to send a picture?
@pdx1138:
Hi!
I won't go over 2 messages (including the first message) from now on. It's not worth it I don't think. I'm glad it's working good for you though!
I'm still unsure about the compliment... I mean, not sure it's such a good idea. A gut feeling you might say.
@Espi: Yup, a good learning experience. I agree about the jumping through hoops thing. How do you feel about compliments?
@dasein: Good reply. I like it.
How do you get a woman to show her picture in private (for those who won't show their pictures in public) so that it doesn't need three weeks to coax her in agreeing to send a picture?
I figured I could ask this here instead of making a new thread.
About six days ago I started a convo with a chick on OKC...who I now found had recently broken up from boyfriend and was taking it badly. I am uncertain how to proceed.
To give a bigger picture when I first messaged her it went relatively well, but when I wanted to escalate, knowing that many chicks around here are very hesitant about online dating I simply asked for her Skype. She gave it to me but also told me she was at work at the time and couldn't very well chat there.
I waited...but she never came online, eventually I messaged her just to say I thought she was no longer interested and goodbye. A waste of time I thought but since other local prospects on the site were terrible I thought whatever. I was fairly certain she had flaked me.
Surprisingly she did reply, admitting she had not been very social lately. When I asked her why so she told me about her break up and her poor emotional state.
I am a bit stumped on what to do here. I think she is interested, but I certainly don't want to be friendzoned or become her *****.
About six days ago I started a convo with a chick on OKC...who I now found had recently broken up from boyfriend and was taking it badly. I am uncertain how to proceed.
To give a bigger picture when I first messaged her it went relatively well, but when I wanted to escalate, knowing that many chicks around here are very hesitant about online dating I simply asked for her Skype. She gave it to me but also told me she was at work at the time and couldn't very well chat there.
I waited...but she never came online, eventually I messaged her just to say I thought she was no longer interested and goodbye. A waste of time I thought but since other local prospects on the site were terrible I thought whatever. I was fairly certain she had flaked me.
Surprisingly she did reply, admitting she had not been very social lately. When I asked her why so she told me about her break up and her poor emotional state.
I am a bit stumped on what to do here. I think she is interested, but I certainly don't want to be friendzoned or become her *****.
thunder_god
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2011
- Messages
- 784
- Reaction score
- 22
I would try to keep the online banter to a minimum, and aim for getting her out on a date or just to hang out (its really a date lol). If you must skype with her, make definitive plans with her such as setting a specific time, and date for doing the skype. Ask her what her schedules like and set up the skype session. Have a fun playful short skype session, then ask her out! Simple as that, oh and don't forget to get her number as well.Costin said:
Good luck!
Good enough advice there, my problem right now though is how to reply to her telling me she broke up.
The problem I have is in replying to her message ( where she said she was feeling badly for breaking up ) in a way that doesn't make me look desperate, also not too much of a jerk.
The problem I have is in replying to her message ( where she said she was feeling badly for breaking up ) in a way that doesn't make me look desperate, also not too much of a jerk.
Keep your dating life binary, keep yourself sane. If they are 1. enthusiastically willing to spend time alone with you, and 2. enthusiastically accepting of your escalating physical advances, keep asking. Everything, and I mean -everything- else is noise. Once either 1 or 2 are no longer true, remove that one from the bucket and put another one in. For me, two phone contacts (not text, IM, email... phone) declining a date invitation without suggesting a definite alternate = next. Your mileage may vary. Keep 3-5 in the bucket at all times depending on what you can handle, and once one drops out, before doing -anything- else in the woman dept., get out there and find another prospect for the bucket. Women can smell options on you and you will find your life with women getting so much easier when you keep 3-5 options open as a first priority during dating periods.
“The 22 Rules That Flip the Script With Women… And How You Can Use Them Tonight”
Most guys accidentally kill attraction before they even speak. They assume they need a bigger bank account, a better physique, or smoother lines. They miss the point.
Female desire operates on a specific set of psychological triggers. Break them, and you're invisible. Follow them, and you become magnetic.
I learned this the hard way. Years of freezing up. Getting friend-zoned. Watching other guys walk away with the girl I wanted. Then I discovered a set of 22 simple rules that rewired my entire approach.
@Costin :
Hello!
I would prefer if you created a new thread if you don’t mind. I can easily see how it would be easy to keep track if we all start interacting about different situations in the same thread. You’ll also get people to help you, the OP, with your conundrum as opposed to getting comments all over the place.
As a sign of good faith: MEGA RED FLAG. Do you really want to get involved with some chick who's still messed up because of her ex-boyfriend. The whole thing spells DISASTER in big bold neon letters to me.
_____________________________________________________________
This is a description of my profile at the moment:
I’m a real tough guy who likes to live dangerously like running downstairs with my shoes untied… or not. I’ve been living in the region for about 10 years and I’m always up to meeting new people (mostly women since it’s the objective of the website). My friends describe me as someone intelligent, funny and passionate. I’m always willing to go for a drink or a coffee. I’m currently a teacher in a private company and I like to draw in my free time, work out and watch movies.
I find a lot of women read my message and check my profile but don’t end up replying. This makes me guess that I might have a problem with my actual profile description. Perhaps it’s too long?
Could you gives criticize this as much as possible? I’ve gotten really good feedback from here so far. Rip it apart!
Hello!
I would prefer if you created a new thread if you don’t mind
. I can easily see how it would be easy to keep track if we all start interacting about different situations in the same thread. You’ll also get people to help you, the OP, with your conundrum as opposed to getting comments all over the place. As a sign of good faith: MEGA RED FLAG. Do you really want to get involved with some chick who's still messed up because of her ex-boyfriend. The whole thing spells DISASTER in big bold neon letters to me.
_____________________________________________________________
This is a description of my profile at the moment:
I’m a real tough guy who likes to live dangerously like running downstairs with my shoes untied… or not. I’ve been living in the region for about 10 years and I’m always up to meeting new people (mostly women since it’s the objective of the website). My friends describe me as someone intelligent, funny and passionate. I’m always willing to go for a drink or a coffee. I’m currently a teacher in a private company and I like to draw in my free time, work out and watch movies.
I find a lot of women read my message and check my profile but don’t end up replying. This makes me guess that I might have a problem with my actual profile description. Perhaps it’s too long?
Could you gives criticize this as much as possible? I’ve gotten really good feedback from here so far. Rip it apart!
Ok, I'll try without the first sentence. I guess not everyoe is into my wacky sense of humour.
Actually those women I have already contacted. They read my message, check my profile but don't reply. Which is why I think there's something wrong with my profile.
EDIT: (also, I found the rep' function. Thanks for everything so far compadre).
Actually those women I have already contacted. They read my message, check my profile but don't reply. Which is why I think there's something wrong with my profile.
EDIT: (also, I found the rep' function. Thanks for everything so far compadre).
MOTU
Master Don Juan
This is a great thread, lots of Rep to be given out here for sure. Everyone saying it is a numbers game is dead on. It has also fascinated me how some chicks that I think are a little below on the hotness scale don't reply, and others I think are above me contact me first!
Time elapse picture app: thanks for this tip, I am going to work on some pic upgrades! On the pics topic, a wife beater or wetsuit can accomplish the same as a shirtless pic and not seem as cliche.
The Epsi method: a while back I said I would try this and report back, so I'll do it here. I was in SMF and had a free evening so I spammed invites from both POF and OKC. Short and sweet: Hi, I am MOTU and I am from Houston Texas but traveled to this area frequently. I happen to have some free time tonight and your profile caught my eye, would you like to join me for a drink?
I was surprised at the number of replies I got. Probably 3-4 no thanks, 2-3 I wish I could but tonight is bad and 2 yes's. I met the hotter of the two yes'scand got a kiss close (which was a bit of a bummer, the logistics were perfect for a fvck close).
My profiles are funny and edgy. My POF is actually long too... But tells very little about me. I do have a couple of C/F lines like "I have raised three daughters so you should know I'm completely immune to grunting, foot stomping, eye rolling, whining, pouting and other feminine forms of communicating dissatisfaction nonverbally." I get compliments on my profiles regularly.
I agree that it's your pics that qualify you. I think the trick on your profile is to not disqualify yourself by what you write. But adding content that is well thought out and not too serious may make them feel like they know you a little better and make them more receptive to date requests with less upfront chatter.
My best opens seem to be funny ones. And when I can tease them on something in their profile even better. I regularly use a line that I was reading their profile and was just about to change my fb relationship status to "terribly smitten" until I saw what might be a deal breaker... And most ask what it is and I make up something funny from their profile.
Epic fail: I sent this opener to HB and she replied "that's ok, you are too old and out of shape for me anyway". Lol!!
In my area, POF has the most chicks and activity. OKC would be next on both volumes in attractiveness. Tinder chicks are the hottest but I get the least play there.
I have laid 5 different chicks from online since January. At all of them superhot but at least doable. That's out of about 12 first dates. Not too shabby. My game is getting better and the chicks are getting hotter. That being said, I really want to focus on my offline game so I haven't been working the apps so much.
Hope that adds a little to this great discussion.
Time elapse picture app: thanks for this tip, I am going to work on some pic upgrades! On the pics topic, a wife beater or wetsuit can accomplish the same as a shirtless pic and not seem as cliche.
The Epsi method: a while back I said I would try this and report back, so I'll do it here. I was in SMF and had a free evening so I spammed invites from both POF and OKC. Short and sweet: Hi, I am MOTU and I am from Houston Texas but traveled to this area frequently. I happen to have some free time tonight and your profile caught my eye, would you like to join me for a drink?
I was surprised at the number of replies I got. Probably 3-4 no thanks, 2-3 I wish I could but tonight is bad and 2 yes's. I met the hotter of the two yes'scand got a kiss close (which was a bit of a bummer, the logistics were perfect for a fvck close).
My profiles are funny and edgy. My POF is actually long too... But tells very little about me. I do have a couple of C/F lines like "I have raised three daughters so you should know I'm completely immune to grunting, foot stomping, eye rolling, whining, pouting and other feminine forms of communicating dissatisfaction nonverbally." I get compliments on my profiles regularly.
I agree that it's your pics that qualify you. I think the trick on your profile is to not disqualify yourself by what you write. But adding content that is well thought out and not too serious may make them feel like they know you a little better and make them more receptive to date requests with less upfront chatter.
My best opens seem to be funny ones. And when I can tease them on something in their profile even better. I regularly use a line that I was reading their profile and was just about to change my fb relationship status to "terribly smitten" until I saw what might be a deal breaker... And most ask what it is and I make up something funny from their profile.
Epic fail: I sent this opener to HB and she replied "that's ok, you are too old and out of shape for me anyway". Lol!!
In my area, POF has the most chicks and activity. OKC would be next on both volumes in attractiveness. Tinder chicks are the hottest but I get the least play there.
I have laid 5 different chicks from online since January. At all of them superhot but at least doable. That's out of about 12 first dates. Not too shabby. My game is getting better and the chicks are getting hotter. That being said, I really want to focus on my offline game so I haven't been working the apps so much.
Hope that adds a little to this great discussion.
I think that part of the reason why a very direct approach seems to be work is that it keeps things simple. It creates a good vibe for setting up a date.
I’m under the impression that if you start writing long messages, the whole thing suddenly gets more complex. The more you communicate, the more the “virtual” relationship becomes important and part of a “habit”. In other words, the more you write, the more you encourage writing.
By going for a date right away, you set the right frame of mind. Further replies are tools used to set up that meeting, both parties know where to go from there.
Besides, if they refuse, they would’ve probably preferred a virtual correspondence so end up saving the time writing emails.
I keep copies of my messages. I then sort them depending on the theme. I have paragraphs prepared for just about any topic and I just copy/paste them whenever appropriate. Saves me loads of time. Thought I'd share.
I’m under the impression that if you start writing long messages, the whole thing suddenly gets more complex. The more you communicate, the more the “virtual” relationship becomes important and part of a “habit”. In other words, the more you write, the more you encourage writing.
By going for a date right away, you set the right frame of mind. Further replies are tools used to set up that meeting, both parties know where to go from there.
Besides, if they refuse, they would’ve probably preferred a virtual correspondence so end up saving the time writing emails.
I keep copies of my messages. I then sort them depending on the theme. I have paragraphs prepared for just about any topic and I just copy/paste them whenever appropriate. Saves me loads of time. Thought I'd share.
"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"
You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.
And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.
Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.
The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.
Alright, back to the drawing board (a bit).
I invited another woman for a drink in the first message. She replied: “already?”. I think the first message might be just a tad too fast?
I’d like to read your opinion. How can I salvage this so that I don’t end up being sucked in an email exchange (which I wouldn’t do as I’d rather move on than do that)?
I invited another woman for a drink in the first message. She replied: “already?”. I think the first message might be just a tad too fast?
I’d like to read your opinion. How can I salvage this so that I don’t end up being sucked in an email exchange (which I wouldn’t do as I’d rather move on than do that)?
Shes clearly interested or wouldnt have responded. I think holding your position is key here if you do respond, just "yea id rather get to know you in person than over text, are you available thursday". Basically repeating yourself, dont get sucked into the get to know you exchange.
True dat!
She replied:
I just think that meeting without first introducing myself seems like a one night deal to me.
I'm sorry, I'm really suspicious about this website. I'm convinced it might work but I'm a very sensitive person and afraid I might get hurt.
I replied with my phone number saying we could chat on the phone first.
Sounds like a flake to me anyway.
She replied:
I just think that meeting without first introducing myself seems like a one night deal to me.
I'm sorry, I'm really suspicious about this website. I'm convinced it might work but I'm a very sensitive person and afraid I might get hurt.
I replied with my phone number saying we could chat on the phone first.
Sounds like a flake to me anyway.
Neah nevermind she flaked me.
The frustrating part about online dating is that many chicks are very much against it but they do it anyway: Desperation or lack of options, lack of attention.
Depends on the country obviously, in some chicks are more open but still somewhat cautious about it, in others they are extremely cautious. I had a chick ( another one ) contact a while ago and she seemed quite interested but when it came to me asking her on a date she refused, but not before I realized she had just very recently broken up from her Boyfriend. What's with these chicks breaking up and then using online dating? What are they looking for exactly?
So I decided to make a new dating profile
http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=66599848
Really couldn't think of much to put as I don't like rambling, as you know I much prefer to make lists. Also took a selection of different photos, but not sure which to have as the main one.
Anyway, feel free to tear it to shreds, the more suggestions/criticisms the better.
http://www.pof.com/viewprofile.aspx?profile_id=66599848
Really couldn't think of much to put as I don't like rambling, as you know I much prefer to make lists. Also took a selection of different photos, but not sure which to have as the main one.
Anyway, feel free to tear it to shreds, the more suggestions/criticisms the better.
"I just moved here from Florida."
That sentence contains at least five follow-up questions she WANTS you to ask. Where in Florida? What brought you here? How long have you been in the area? What do you miss? How does it compare to here?
She handed them to you on a silver platter. And you said, "Oh cool. I come here every week. I love this band. Ummm... pretty crowded tonight."
She smiled politely. Nodded. And never texted you back.
I was that guy for years. Talking too much. Listening too little. Panicking about my next sentence while she was literally feeding me the answers.
Then I found 22 rules that fixed the whole thing. Rule number one: shut up and listen. She'll tell you exactly what to say.