Interesting article from IA..

[JohnnyIrish]

Here's the article

Interesting read. As a beginner I also found the end rather interesting and explained some things to me that perhaps the majority of you already know.. in any case here it is:

General Guidelines
- Performing sets of 3 reps in something like a squat exercise will be more effective at improving your relative strength and motor unit recruitment then performing sets of 5 reps will.
- Performing sets of 5 reps will be more effective at making you bigger then performing sets of 3 reps will.
- Performing sets of 10 reps will likely be more effective at making you bigger then sets of 3 or 5 reps will, if the number of sets are the same.
- Performing sets of 5 reps will be more effective at making you bigger then performing sets of 10 reps, if the number of reps in a session are equal (6 sets of 5 vs 3 sets of 10)
- Compound movements are superior to isolation movements for motor unit recruitment and muscle size
- Trying to move a load as quickly as possible through the concentric (positive) portion of a lift works better for both increased motor unit recruitment and muscle size
- Performing the eccentric (negative) phase of a movement slower works better for increasing muscle size
- Performing the eccentric (negative) phase of a movement faster and firing out of the transition works better for increasing motor unit recruitment



From this article low volume gives more 'strength' where as higher reps give more muscle size. Also that a combination of both is the best idea so as you recrutie more muscle fibers (read the article) as well as increase size by working/damaging the muscle enough.

Going as fast as possible on the positive portion of the lift while going slow and controlled on the negative.. seems the best for size as per the article.



What do you more seasoned vets here think of this article?

 

[Drum&Bass]

I think its pretty accurate.
I also liked what, Kelly, had to say about strength deficit.

 

[Quagmire911]

I am not a "seasoned vet" by a long shot, however as EFFORT would put it: "Anything by IA is spot on" or something like that. It would do a lot of people some good to go over to IA's and read through the many great articles there.

If you look at the routine you are currently on it is a mix of low and high reps for the reasons outlined above. As you progress doing things like switching from 2-3x5 to 3x3, basic things like that, are incorporated to aid in continued progression and also to better suit your goals at the time.

Edit-I see it was written by Kelly Bagett. I've read some of his stuff and from what I see he is very knowledgeable. To quote IA "Kelly's stuff is always gold and he is one of the strength coaches I truly respect."

 

[JohnnyIrish]

If you look at the routine you are currently on it is a mix of low and high reps for the reasons outlined above. As you progress doing things like switching from 2-3x5 to 3x3, basic things like that, are incorporated to aid in continued progression and also to better suit your goals at the time.

Good point. In addition to that, I also found/read another post of his "How to train yourself".

It contains a lot of good information that I've seen mentioned on here before as well.. such as high volume IF it works for you then great but most it doesn't. That and to start with what you KNOW will work such as his "hard gainer workout" (which is similar to the "where to start" minus its the same exercises each day). Then after you get a baseline of progress THEN you can start trying other styles of lifting..

Hence the consensus here that informs those beginners who want to change the "where to start" threads exercises.. NOT to do so. Rather to follow it to the letter.. so a baseline of success is first created. Once that is done then from there ones routine can get more complex IF needs be depending on ones "where to start" results and ones desired goals.

I think I'm on point there.

 

[Quagmire911]

That it is pretty much it.

I am nearly a year into training and my routine is still pretty simple, and will be for quite some time I imagine.

You have to be careful with what you read early on though. I read a lot of articles, feeding my thirst for knowledge on the subject of lifting. There are many different viewpoints and routines that contradict each other, and simply cannot be applied at the same time. It is important to step back from it all and second guess yourself asking WHY you are doing something. It is also a good idea to to collaborate with others that have more experience than yourself.

I find myself analyzing my routine/training all the time, it is necessary not to listen to yourself sometimes. If I listened to myself all the time I would get nowhere, why??? I'd probably be trying out different protocols or the next quick fix. I don't have this problem so much anymore, luckily at the start I said "What do you know about lifting?", "What does WBA/EFFORT/etc know about lifting". It seemed quite logical to me who to listen too. You need to give things time though, and that is where many, many people fail. Equally however you get the guys that won't make a change for ages and are stuck in there ways. Again, it is good to get an outside perspective.

At the end of the day, as long as you are progressing and progressing well there is no need for change. Week to week is inaccurate as things such as CNS/diet/sleep etc could have thrown you off. If a movement hasn't progressed in 2-3 sessions however, something is amiss and it is time to re-evaluate things. WBA told me when I was starting out that you need to look back once you have completed one block/phase of lifting, and from each one of those be able to learn more about how different lifts etc/HIIT/diet affect you. Then over time and through experience you get a better understanding of what works for you.

Quagmire

 

[The Bat]

With strength training, you do lower reps with lower sets but with how much weight? Is it 1RM, 3RM, 4RM? I couldn't find that information in the article.

With mass training, you'd train to failure with higher reps and high frequency with heavy weights. Actually, this is the pattern I'm on now, and I've seen incredible results in strength. How is this possible? I'm slowly gaining weight and am a little bit more defined but it's not like I'm stuck at a certain 1RM. Anybody follow me?

 

[Throttle]

With strength training, you do lower reps with lower sets but with how much weight? Is it 1RM, 3RM, 4RM? I couldn't find that information in the article.

b/c he's assuming you train to failure (or near failure), and thus your 1RM and 4RM are irrelevant. the only relevant "RM" whatever you're training at. so if after warmups you do 3x5, you're working out with your 3x5RM (note that I don't mean three sets of your 5RM). it's really that simple.

How is this possible? I'm slowly gaining weight and am a little bit more defined but it's not like I'm stuck at a certain 1RM. Anybody follow me?

because strength gains include the obvious (increases in muscle mass) and many less obvious factors, both local to a given muscle group and systemic with respect to your whole body.

 

[Master Bates]

Which is the positive and which is the negative movement?

 

[Quagmire911]

The deadlift: From the ground to lock out is the positive.
:I suppose you could say the opposite is the negative, however in deads there is very little emphasis placed on putting the bar back on the ground.

The bench press:Lowering your bar to the chest is the negative.
ressing the bar from the chest to lockout is the positive.

The squat:Lowering the weight too the ass to grass position is the negative.
:Coming up from the bottom position to standing is the positive.

Hope this helps,

Quagmire

 

[Drum&Bass]

however in deads there is very little emphasis placed on putting the bar back on the ground.

Not when I deadlift, placing the bar gently and quietly on the ground is just as hard and at times harder than lifting it off.

I also teach that to my clients..."Treat the weight likes its glass"

 

[shaunuk]

One thing that always confused me is the deadlift example. It's the negative of movements that are the main contributors to microtrauma, but how often do people do a slow (or even moderately slow) negative after a deadlift? Yet over time deadlifting gives you a large strong back. What's the deal there?

 

[Quagmire911]

It's the negative of movements that are the main contributors to microtrauma,

Where did you read that.

 

[mrRuckus]

I'm feeling frisky today.

Note what he said about number of sets. I have done box squats, squats, rack deadlifts, and bench at 8x3 as instructed by IA at times. I'm having no problems gaining size along with my strength. This will cause more hypertrophy than 3x8. This gets mixed in with 1x1 and 3x3 sets. That 8x3 kind of work is usually done without much rest (30-120 secs) between sets and really creams the high twitch fibers. It's fun doing rack deadlifts having so little rest between sets with everyone staring at you like you're an idiot. This is typical westside and/or powerlifting type work.

Remember the 5x5 routines? Sure, low reps, but the sets are 'high' so you're still getting decent hypertrophy work. I got a lot of strength and size out of doing Madcow's Intermediate 5x5 for 16 weeks. I must've put 60 lbs on my deadlift at 5 reps.

And think about this. Getting stronger will increase the weight you can handle on 10 rep sets, which will increase the hypertrophy on future 10 rep sets. So those 1-5 rep sets are still pretty damn important if for nothing else than to bump up the higher rep strength. I hear it over and over again, when you make the fastest strength gains of your life is when you make the fastest size gains of your life. When did you grow fastest? When you were a newbie and gained strength the fastest (assuming you ate of course).

Every time i go back to an accessory lift (like tricep pulldowns at 8-12 reps) after doing some low rep work on CGBP or regular bench and taking 4 weeks or so off the pulldowns, that lift will fly up in weight and reps at the higher rep ranges. Strength carried to the high rep work from the low rep work.

The negatives do cause the most microtrauma. DC (see below) has said about his training program that the only reason he wants you to lift the weight is so that you can lower it again. Look at some Poliquin stuff where he gives lifting timings and almost always the negative he wants is a lot slower than the positive. It'll be something like 1-4-0 (positive, negative, pause between reps). This is also why things like doing pullups ONLY the negative if you can't do many reps at body weight will still increase your strength on the positive. This helped me on both pullups and glute-ham raises which are damn hard to progress on if you can barely do any even without weight.

But really most of this stuff is just fluff until you have a few years experience. That's where these basic routines come from.. guys who have been there before who understand you don't need to think or do too much when you're new.


Quote from DoggCrapp on deadlift negatives:

3)Slow negatives on deadlifts, heavy back movements and really heavy squats. Cmon guys who keep asking this same freaking question over and over---Do you think its very prudent common sense wise to do a 500lb deadlift and take 6 seconds on the negative?????? I want control--i want you always feeling like you are powering the weight instead of it powering you. On a deadlift I dont even want you thinking about counting negative seconds, I want you just being safe, in good form, and a human forklift.......One more time--CONTROL!!!! You control the weight down with the determining factor being safety of the exercise and proper form. On a shoulder press that might mean a true 3-4 second negative and on a deadlift that might mean a 1 second negative--on a squat that might mean a true 2-4 second negative, on a preacher bench c-u-r-l that might mean a true 6 second negative--I WANT CONTROL

 

[shaunuk]

Where did you read that.

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156713&postcount=17 - from IA

BTW good post mrR

 

[The Bat]

Anytime you lift a weight against gravity, that's considered positive movement. The opposite is true, obviously.

How does low reps low sets factor if you're on high frequency workout? For instance, I workout specific muscle groups every 4th day. So if I do chest on Mon, then I do chest again on Thurs. Should I be increasing the low rep low set or decreasing them? By that, I mean, should I do 5X3 or 8X3 if I workout a specific muscle group every 4th day?

Throttle, so basically you're training to failure on each rep. But not exactly failure. Err...well you know what I mean.

 

[Quagmire911]

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156713&postcount=17 - from IA

BTW good post mrR

Cool.

 

[Throttle]

Throttle, so basically you're training to failure on each rep. But not exactly failure. Err...well you know what I mean.

the goal is to not be in trouble until the last few reps of the last set, and to just barely be able to finish. that's not true failure -- you could generally come back and do a few more after a few minutes' break.