In modern times, a womans "status" has become more important

[Jaylan]

Preface: Ive been gone a bit. Basically I have taken a leave from the PUA community. While some of the things I have read from here and from guys like David Deangelo have been useful to me, some of the stuff began to hold me back. I got out of the habit of thinking in terminology and planning out my female interactions. No mental masturbation as some seasoned posters have called it. I stopped being so analytical and just went with the flow. Actually, success started coming once I decided to just think for myself and look at both sides of the coin in most situations. No man vs woman, just Jay and whatever girl Im with.

Though some guys here talk about "the matrix" that is the current realm of male-female relations, I feel that many of us unplug from one matrix, only to be plugged into another one. For all the good that the PUA has taught me, there is much rough around these diamonds of info. There is too much negativity and pessimism that I feel holds some good dudes back from getting what they want. Be it love, lots of sex, and/or just a fun dating life.

Anyways, this thread was inspired by this older thread: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75523&page=3

Meat and tatters:
I was talking to a couple buddies about this.

I am attracted to women on my level, so to speak. I like a girl who is college educated, or at least have gone to some sort of school for her field, or is currently in school. When I am on online profiles, if a girl is past the age of 21 and not in college yet, I tend to get turned off. And they usually have the most baggage it seems.

Its because usually in my experience these women usually dont have the ambition that girls who went to school have. They expect a dude to come along and take care of them...or they made some not so smart life decisions that made it hard to go back to school. From speaking to women in the real world or reading profiles, it would seem that the educated girls def have a better head on their shoulders. Of course these are generalizations and exceptions to the rule do exist. But we cannot pretend that we dont notice more single moms or women with crappy jobs who happen to be just high school grads or less.


But I feel like me and some of my friends have started to screen women the way they do us. Smart, educated, good job, not a lot of debt...Basically in the present day, being sexy isnt all that matters anymore. Men want stability and what not from women along with a good personality. I want a sexy girl whos my intellectual equal, and I usually find that in an educated career woman. Complicated, intellectual girls who can hold debates with me sooooo do it for me lol

But hell, I used to talk to girls and if she told me she was studying art, id be less enthused than if she was studying math or law. Then again, Im a student of business and politics...so I like a girl I have something in common with. And art girls have usually not been able to talk to me about things that interested me. Thing is, this used to not matter to guys, and as long as a girl was sexy and showed decent nurturing skills, most guys would bite. However, there is more to a good mate besides her looks and mothering skills. You also need an emotional and mental connection. Someone you can talk to and share your feelings with.

But I guess its that nowadays to me, a good women can show those skills by being independent and having her own money and stuff. Its 2012, shes a freaking adult and because in my head a 2 income household or relationship, is way more stable. The kids will always have more, and theres more security in that. Also, Id get more of the feeling that shes with me more for my personality. And I am def with her for her personality, and her personality plays into the fact that she became a successful independent adult.


Like for example, my good buddy used to work for this flight company. And the VP of Finances was this young girl...late 20s early 30s. Im only 25, but thats a young age to be Financial VP of that company, since it made a lot of cash. Either way, she was sexy(love a woman in a business suit), went to a good school, and had this funky personality. But I was super attracted to the fact that she was thing strong professional business woman with power and was sexy to boot.


Sure I know some dudes are taught the typical stereotype that any woman focused on her career has personality issues, or will be past her prime when she decides to settle down at 30, but lets be realistic. I have met plenty of women with careers who are super cool regular gals.

Then you have the super career oriented gals who are doctors, lawyers and business types who are usually a bit tougher to crack. But that makes sense in a male dominated field, however they tend to want a guy who can make them feel like a woman anyways, but also take her seriously, and mostly not be intimidated by her success

All this being said, youth is most attractive in both sexes, first and foremost. Men and women arent immune to being shallow azzholes but noone gets any younger. Is it not smart to build a career while you have can and then start a family when your still young enough that you wont be walking with a cane by the time your kids hit high school? I personally want to focus on getting my career going and playing music, and not worry so much about family unless the right girl happens along. Im still discovering myself and feel I wont be stable mentally or financially enough until I am near to 30. Can ya fault a guy for admiring a woman who does the same and doesnt seek a meal ticket in a man? I still feel like a kid myself.

Anyone feel me on all this?

 

[I'm in the Mood]

Yeah I completely agree. A woman with a career she's passionate in is attractive. I guess that works both ways with men and women. Intelligence is attractive too, because it gives you information to offer and a whole nother level of discussion.

For me, the particular career only has to be something interesting. It doesn't have to be one of my interest per se, but it needs to spark some curiosity in me.

 

[Warrior74]

I used to think like that. Now I think, does she pass the boner test? Meaning does she do it for me? Can she pull her own weight? Will she bring me drama? Is she boring? If any of those are no, I bail. I used would take a partial tally and still hit it for a while, but these days I just can't be arsed to deal with what I know will be drama down the road. The light ain't worth the candle.

I couldn't care less what she does for a living. It's all about how she treats me and how we get along together.

 

[Jaylan]

^Part of her being able to pull her own weight would mean that one would look at what she does for a living.

Sure finding someone you click with well is great, but at the same time I doubt I could click that well with a woman who wasnt more like myself.

 

[backbreaker]

^Part of her being able to pull her own weight would mean that one would look at what she does for a living.

Sure finding someone you click with well is great, but at the same time I doubt I could click that well with a woman who wasnt more like myself.

dude if i could design a woman that was the complete oppsoite of me, i touwl dbe my wife. Fromm the we look, me being black and short, her being tall and white, to our personalities... she can talk you to sleep, I don't talk alot. she has like 300 friends in her phone and spends half her day texting and chatting and on the phone, I think I have 4 phone numbers in my phone and I have sent like 4 text all of last year. she goes to sleep early I am a night owl, she's shy, I'm not, she's very conservative, I'm very agressive. We barley tolerate the same foods, she hates to read, I am a book worm, I can go on and own.

and we click so well it's not even funny. dude, i don't want to spend the rest of my life with me lol. why the fvck would I want to date someone who is just like me. when I get home from work or when I stop working, usually working 10-12 hour days, I'm beat, the last thing I want to do is spend time with another me talking about work. I want to spend time talking about the most trival **** i can imagine, and she's perfect for that. I spend all day breaking down numbers and handicapping and **** or managing web projects, I don't want to have a conversation about Keynesian Economics. I mean she is no dummie, and she can hold that conversation, at least an intelligent conversation when the time calls for it or she feels like it, but she is not that serious. I want to laugh at my wife talking about how her best friend got stood up again. I love how she makes me quit what I am doing and drags me in the living room to make me watch law and order with her. It's that balance man.



This fundamental difference, is what feminist and guys like the OP never grasped. successful guys, don't want to date or marry themselves. that's the last thing I want. I mean I don't want a dumb broad but I don't want me. I'm perfectly fine with her having more shallow interest than I do. It balances me out. She makes me watch movies when otherwise I wouldn't, makes me take breaks and have fun and have a more active social life than I would not otherwise have. Though I was successful with women I was quite a hermit by nature.

As some of you knwo I'm a history nut. you can learn alot by looking at history. Look at the 4th president of the unitied states, James Madison. He was short, soft spoken, deadly serious about everything, a man with a definate purpose in life and introverted, though extremely brilliant. He was married to probably the most famous presidential wife in history, dolly madison, who was, extroverted ,liked ot have a good time, was no where near as serious about life as he was.. and they complimented each other perfectly. s?he stood by him, she believed in him, she understood the sacrifices he had made, but she WASN'T HIM. He never wanted her to be. He understood the importance of having balance, of having a "better half" or at least "other half" so to speak. Someone who could charm people when he coudln't, someone who could host a good party when the time called for it, someone who could take his mind off his very serious and deadly life. Probably the most successful marriage tandum in presidential history.

contrast that with Franklin Delano Rosevelt. While, IMHO he was the best presient we have ever had, he married a female version of himself. Fiercely independent, and extremely driven, for the last at least 20 years of his life he never ever lived in the same house as his wife. His wife's unfeminine ways drove him to try to cheat and he got caught, and his mother would not allow him to get a divorce, so he was stuck with a woman who did not "do it for him" . he loved her ,and cared for her, but they were more like business partners than lovers. She was so smart and well liked I truly believe she could have ran for president and won when FDR died. There are rumors which I think are true that she was even a dyke the later half of her life. she had NO sexual contac with her "similar minded" husband the last part of her life.

There are things you learn to deal with or learn to like. She has taken a liking to history because I like history, as well as football. I learn to put up with shoes that I never in my life would have watched like Deadliest Catch (which actually is kinda entertaining). But I don't want ME. I want someone who respects me and admires whhat I want to accomplish in life, even kick me in the butt when I need it, but I don't want them to be me.

 

[Warrior74]

^Part of her being able to pull her own weight would mean that one would look at what she does for a living./QUOTE]

No, it doesn't. If she can feed cloth and shelter herself without handouts from men or mommy and daddy, that's pulling her own weight. I don't care how she does it. I just want to know that she's stable enough to manage the basic criteria for being an adult.

 

[backbreaker]

^Part of her being able to pull her own weight would mean that one would look at what she does for a living./QUOTE]

No, it doesn't. If she can feed cloth and shelter herself without handouts from men or mommy and daddy, that's pulling her own weight. I don't care how she does it. I just want to know that she's stable enough to manage the basic criteria for being an adult.

rotfl hell my wife can't even do that being 100% honest. I'm sure she could but she has never really had to. never had what you would call a career job. she gets a trust fund check and has ever since she was grown.

 

[Warrior74]

rotfl hell my wife can't even do that being 100% honest. I'm sure she could but she has never really had to. never had what you would call a career job. she gets a trust fund check and has ever since she was grown.

Trust fund check = pulling her own weight in my book. At least you know she's wasn't out there dating dudes for money. It's a name for that.

I was banging this chic who's kid plays with my kid and she tells me how she stopped seeing some 60 year old guy because he stopped paying her car note, and how the other guy she was seeing was paying her light bill because "times are hard right now" and she doesn't make enough money. I kept thinking, I'm not giving this broad a dime. A couple of weeeks later she starts hinting around at needing help with her cell phone bill. LOOOOOL. I went Swayze on her so quick. She still gives me dirty looks when I drop the kid off to play.

 

[backbreaker]

i have a pretty unique stance on hoes. I dont' mind them actually.

what I hate are the fake hoes. The ones who are dishonest about what they want and their intentions are. Evfen more, I hate the ones that sale you on the illsion of somenthing without holding up their end of hte bargin

hoes have their place. If I know up front what hte deal is, I'm not going to try to commit and I'm going to get guarnateed sex /something to do a few nights a week in return. i had this one girl back in the day, as in like when I was 22 years old, she wasn't smoking hot but she was very attractive, she was 19 years old, and a stripper. half mexican half white, coke bottle body. she made absolutely no bones about the fact that she wanted money. she was funny, liked her company but we were never going to date. she would come over and i would fvck her brains out, we would go out to eat everyone in a while, and she would ask me to pay various bills and **** or ask me to buy her this or that, and I had no problem with that. we both knew what the deal was, and she held up her end of the bargin. i Had other plates that i treated more seriously but she was a great lay and didn't have an ounce of fat on her. Once I moved to florida that was that, no muss no fuss. I'd see her 2 or so nights a week and I"d be well taken care of, she'd spend the night, when she was there i got all or at least most her attention, she even introuced me to some of her equally hot stripper friends. if she wanted something within reason I had no rpoblem doing it for her. she wanted to go to Memphis one day and asked could i give her some money and I would her to come by and pick some up, she'd do that and we'd get a quickie in. nice exchange

what I HATE, are girls like my oneitis.. girls who have the exact same motives, but donnt' live up to their end of hte bargin, like the girl in your post. they give you the allure of sex but the guy is too stupid to realize he's never going to get any. ironically you end up spending more money on these. my oneitisi would never ask for small ****. i would do **** like pay her college tuition or buy her a computer and wouldn't' get so mjuch as a kiss on the cheek.

I'm extremely pragmatic. I understand every woman isn't your life mate. AS long as I get what I want out the deal, I have no problem making sure she gets what she wants out the deal. Just because a woman doesn't' love " you for you" doesn't mean you can't have a damn good time with her.

 

[Warrior74]

i have a pretty unique stance on hoes. I dont' mind them actually.

what I hate are the fake hoes. The ones who are dishonest about what they want and their intentions are. Evfen more, I hate the ones that sale you on the illsion of somenthing without holding up their end of hte bargin

hoes have their place. If I know up front what hte deal is, I'm not going to try to commit and I'm going to get guarnateed sex /something to do a few nights a week in return. i had this one girl back in the day, as in like when I was 22 years old, she wasn't smoking hot but she was very attractive, she was 19 years old, and a stripper. half mexican half white, coke bottle body. she made absolutely no bones about the fact that she wanted money. she was funny, liked her company but we were never going to date. she would come over and i would fvck her brains out, we would go out to eat everyone in a while, and she would ask me to pay various bills and **** or ask me to buy her this or that, and I had no problem with that. we both knew what the deal was, and she held up her end of the bargin. i Had other plates that i treated more seriously but she was a great lay and didn't have an ounce of fat on her. Once I moved to florida that was that, no muss no fuss. I'd see her 2 or so nights a week and I"d be well taken care of, she'd spend the night, when she was there i got all or at least most her attention, she even introuced me to some of her equally hot stripper friends. if she wanted something within reason I had no rpoblem doing it for her. she wanted to go to Memphis one day and asked could i give her some money and I would her to come by and pick some up, she'd do that and we'd get a quickie in. nice exchange

what I HATE, are girls like my oneitis.. girls who have the exact same motives, but donnt' live up to their end of hte bargin, like the girl in your post. they give you the allure of sex but the guy is too stupid to realize he's never going to get any. ironically you end up spending more money on these. my oneitisi would never ask for small ****. i would do **** like pay her college tuition or buy her a computer and wouldn't' get so mjuch as a kiss on the cheek.

I'm extremely pragmatic. I understand every woman isn't your life mate. AS long as I get what I want out the deal, I have no problem making sure she gets what she wants out the deal. Just because a woman doesn't' love " you for you" doesn't mean you can't have a damn good time with her.

I understand where you're coming from, and to be totally honest, if I had resources like you I probably wouldn't mind tricking off a few dollars if she was top notch. But as it stands, she wasn't and I lived hand to mouth so yah...I got what I could and called it a day. It's funny now, she's engaged to a guy who knows nothing about her, treats her like a princess, pays for everything and thinks she hung the moon. I've met him a few times while the kids were on play dates and he seems like a good guy, just a little naive. He even told me that he hadn't been with a woman for 2 years until he met her at work. Oh, and he's her supervisor. Good times bro, good times.

 

[Jaylan]

This fundamental difference, is what feminist and guys like the OP never grasped. successful guys, don't want to date or marry themselves. that's the last thing I want. I mean I don't want a dumb broad but I don't want me. I'm perfectly fine with her having more shallow interest than I do. It balances me out. She makes me watch movies when otherwise I wouldn't, makes me take breaks and have fun and have a more active social life than I would not otherwise have. Though I was successful with women I was quite a hermit by nature.

Thats the thing though. Most people end up with folks similar to them and they seek that, successful or not. You happened to end up in an opposites attract relationship that actually works well. I rarely see those. I couldnt take a girl who just "balances me out". It would mean shes on the opposite spectrum of me regarding some things and would prolly turn me off to her as a relationship prospect. Ive dated girls who were my balanced opposite before...boring and lame as all hell. My most rewarding relationship was with a chick who was very similar to me. Theres nothing feminist about that. Like tends to attract like.

As some of you knwo I'm a history nut. you can learn alot by looking at history. Look at the 4th president of the unitied states, James Madison. He was short, soft spoken, deadly serious about everything, a man with a definate purpose in life and introverted, though extremely brilliant. He was married to probably the most famous presidential wife in history, dolly madison, who was, extroverted ,liked ot have a good time, was no where near as serious about life as he was.. and they complimented each other perfectly. s?he stood by him, she believed in him, she understood the sacrifices he had made, but she WASN'T HIM. He never wanted her to be. He understood the importance of having balance, of having a "better half" or at least "other half" so to speak. Someone who could charm people when he coudln't, someone who could host a good party when the time called for it, someone who could take his mind off his very serious and deadly life. Probably the most successful marriage tandum in presidential history.

Dude, like my OP said, exceptions dont make the rule. Way more times than not, people end up with folks similar to them.

And to be honest, its not fair fetched that a woman way back in the day would end up with a guy very different from her since the dude had some sort of societal standing she could get herself in on. Most of the time you see rich and famous folks with someone who they seem to have nothing in common with is because of the money and status.

contrast that with Franklin Delano Rosevelt. While, IMHO he was the best presient we have ever had, he married a female version of himself. Fiercely independent, and extremely driven, for the last at least 20 years of his life he never ever lived in the same house as his wife. His wife's unfeminine ways drove him to try to cheat and he got caught, and his mother would not allow him to get a divorce, so he was stuck with a woman who did not "do it for him" . he loved her ,and cared for her, but they were more like business partners than lovers. She was so smart and well liked I truly believe she could have ran for president and won when FDR died. There are rumors which I think are true that she was even a dyke the later half of her life. she had NO sexual contac with her "similar minded" husband the last part of her life.

Again, how does this prove your point? There are guys who marry women different from them and the marriages turn to crap. Hell, theres a thread in the MM forum right now about a guy whos spoiled wife is a huge b!tch to him and is different from his upbringing and personality.

Youll have to prove to me how being similar to him had anything to do with having a poor marraige. If anything I have seen way better relationships and marriages in my 25 years on earth, between people who who more alike than not.

Crappy marriages tend to happen because theres a lack of respect in the relationship, whether the two people are similar or not. If people being similar to one another was the problem, I wouldnt see threads all over the internet or hear people talking in real life about having nothing in common with their mate, or getting bored, or how much the person changed after marriage.

Also, if she was a lesbian, that destroys your point right there. I have friends who I have loads in common with, but because I am not sexually attracted to men, I would never date them. If she was in fact a lesbian, then thats the reason the marraige was crap. How can you have a successful romantic relationship with someone you are not attracted to? You here about crappy relationships like those all the time where one of the spouses is a closet LGBT person.

There are things you learn to deal with or learn to like. She has taken a liking to history because I like history, as well as football. I learn to put up with shoes that I never in my life would have watched like Deadliest Catch (which actually is kinda entertaining). But I don't want ME. I want someone who respects me and admires whhat I want to accomplish in life, even kick me in the butt when I need it, but I don't want them to be me.

I never said the person should be your clone. Obviously every relationship works in a way in which you pick up interests from one another. I was merely making the observation and statement that in this day and age, people tend to end up with someone more similar to them than not.

This is how friendships work as well. People gravitate towards those with similar beliefs, interests, and ideals as them.

 

[Jaylan]

No, it doesn't. If she can feed cloth and shelter herself without handouts from men or mommy and daddy, that's pulling her own weight. I don't care how she does it. I just want to know that she's stable enough to manage the basic criteria for being an adult.

And like I said, what she does for a living would be worth looking at.

If shes a teacher vs a grocery store clerk who just scrapes by, thatd be important to consider in terms of a wife. At least for me. Say I was looking to settle down, then thered be a hell of a larger load on my shoulder by being with the store clerk, even though they both can feed, cloth, and shelter themselves.

And when you think about kids, its an even larger load. Hence why Im attracted to a girl with more ambition than just being a check to check clerk. A woman who has accurately planned for her future shows admirable traits and things I think would contribute to a more stable household. I am not in the market of taking care of any adult unless shes pregnant with my child and/or on maternity leave after having my child.

Trust fund check = pulling her own weight in my book. At least you know she's wasn't out there dating dudes for money. It's a name for that.

I was banging this chic who's kid plays with my kid and she tells me how she stopped seeing some 60 year old guy because he stopped paying her car note, and how the other guy she was seeing was paying her light bill because "times are hard right now" and she doesn't make enough money. I kept thinking, I'm not giving this broad a dime. A couple of weeeks later she starts hinting around at needing help with her cell phone bill. LOOOOOL. I went Swayze on her so quick. She still gives me dirty looks when I drop the kid off to play.

If a woman didnt come off spoiled, and didnt look down on how I do things, I might be ok with her being a trust fund kid. However, in my experience, anyone whos had a trust fund has usually been spoiled as hell, lazy and stuck up.

I dunno, I can just dig a chick who works hard for her own loot and knows the true value of 'dem dere greenbacks'.

The reason being is that Ive hardly run into any gold diggers like the one you mentioned when its women who have too much pride to accept handouts. There are always exceptions, but there tends to be a big difference in quality amongst the college educated working gal vs the high school educated working gal. As I said in the OP, the latter tends to have more baggage (kids, crappy lifestyle, broke) and a "the stable man will save me" attitude. Disgusting.

And in response to backbreakers last post....fvck all dem hos...even the honest ones lol. I have not ever had to use my loot as a primary means to procure women and never will. I cant stand any of the bitxches who try to get me to either. Honesty doesnt change that lol