If you value experience, please read.

[Intenseintents]

Using the tactics of an online website won't do anything for you. Even if you learn some great line or way to introduce yourself to a girl, this website trains your mind to suddenly consider way too much nitpicky BS.

Don't use kino, don't use eye contact...they aren't weapons. You aren't at war with the women. Please understand this. You're not trying to beat something. You want to be on their team, not against them. It's not like some girl in your class is going to fall head over heels for you because you used some witty trick from this site. Girls are attracted to guys in just about the same way that guys are attracted to girls. When a girl meets you for the first time, just as when you meet a girl for the first time, you immediately find that person attractive or unattractive. Unless you plan on spending a long time becoming friends with a girl who isn't attracted to you, in hopes that someday she'll see past the lack of passion and see you for the great guy you are, to see that you really do care about her, then suddenly you'll run off into the sunset together. Hint: It doesn't work out.

I believe in certain aspects of this site, but even these are basically common sense. "Work out and take care of yourself". Of course working out, keeping clean, wearing clean, co-ordinated clothing, and making sure you talk in a consistent, non-irritating, literate manner will help you in several ways (higher energy, better self confidence in appearance etc.), but you have to do all of that for yourself- not to become someone you aren't.

I left this site years ago because it did nothing for me. I read the tactics, i read the lines, i worked my ass off to become someone i felt was worth dating. I realized just before i left that the problem with my attitude was that i was trying to be something instead of just being it. I felt like i needed to act confident, i needed to act like a funny guy, or else the girls i was attracted to wouldn't like me, which would be failure in my eyes. Instead of standing outside of a room for a second, or going over a party in my head before i'd even left for it, what i needed to do was just relax. Just smile and walk in without thinking about anything but my own happiness and the hope of meeting interesting people.

I'm a crazy person, which anyone who knows me will attest to. This site tries to make you normal. It tries to make you feel adequate in knowing how "normal people" get through high school and all that comes with it. Normalcy is vastly overrated, and won't work for anyone because nobody is normal. You've been given a pre-set genetic code and the experiences of life up to this point your existence. Some people won't be naturally good at some things, or may not look the way they wished they did because of these characteristics.

Learn to make the best of what you have, instead of striving for something you cannot be. And i don't say that discouragingly, as if the people on this site are doomed to virginity or anything like that, but moreso that people here have always (that i've ever seen) looked far too closely at the situation than they should to see the problem.

High school is a cliche-fest that won't mean anything the second you put your cap and gown on. Realize that what many of you are training to do is manipulation, but only the kind of manipulation that will work on stupid young girls. Usually, these girls don't even need lines or anything, it's that you're in the right place when a girls in the right mood and you fit at least her minimum requirements for attraction. Try to become a genuine person (educate yourself about the world around you, use the internet and learn how things work on the smallest level you can comprehend, become wise and knowledgable from both books and experience.)

People on this site want an easy way to get laid (which ultimately is nice, but isn't worth even close to the hype it gets from those who haven't experienced it). Don't be so impatient, and improve yourself as an individual (and i'm not saying change who you are, try to improve upon the aspects of your personality that you don't enjoy having). Don't be ashamed of yourselves, if you don't find yourself to be attractive (from a perspective stance), why would anyone else?

Fix what you can, and then stop dwelling on the rest, because it will only drag you down. Learn to be a productive and good person, and you will be recognized for it. Don't let yourself get walked over, but show people the kind of respect that you want for yourself. (that means talking to people like equals, but with respect, not like someone who's above you or more important than you in any way)

I'm far too tired to make sure this is fully comprehensive, but i'll check back tomorrow to see the thoughts on it.

I don't know what it was, but i was restless and for some reason felt compelled to post this, because i was in high school a couple years ago and know how it can be. Don't interpret this as any sort of condescending post, or look at it as slandering this site. I don't try to offend, but i truly believe in what i say, and feel like others may benefit from it.

I'll answer any questions any of you may have, assuming you take what i say on good authority. Understand that i would not have typed this if i didn't feel as though i were in a very good place in life (not only circumstantially, but mentally).

 

[War Against Betaism]

Seems to me like you're one of the few exceptions who have failed using the resources on this website and wanted to drag people down for whatever reason you have.

Let me tell you something; men were originally supposed to be the alpha male, every single one of us. Society has evolved, and the use of the alpha male wasn't as necessary. However, our minds have not evolved. Our bodies are outdated vessels, and the alpha male is still in power in this world. We're not becoming a person who we aren't; we're unearthing what we were supposed to be in the first place.

 

[Intenseintents]

First off, the illusion of an alpha male is in your eyes and the eyes of culture. We as a society have surpassed a point where you need be effected by an alpha male, and you can act however you want and make a reputation for yourself (it isn't given based on some sense of your alpha maleness people get from you).

Alpha male to me says ****y and arrogant. Look at the ones around you in your life, many of them fit the same description.

Understand that you don't learn a bunch of tricks and then become an alpha male, and then the women come. You become who you want to be and people like the kids on this site try to categorize you because things seem to be going well for you.

Seems to me like you're one of the few exceptions who have failed using the resources on this website and wanted to drag people down for whatever reason you have.

This site did nothing for me in the sense that all the tips and tricks i learned, all the posts i read about any number of things, it all did nothing for me other than odd awkward social moments and making me stay up way too late at night thinking about random stuff. Within a month of leaving i started my first relationship, and finally got laid (without using the tactics on this site, i just acted casually and normally around the girls i was interested in, instead of looking at them like a target to shoot at). In the last three years since i've continued on my own path of personal discovery, and things have been very well (I've slept with four girls in the last week....two of them at the same time). It's not because i'm an alpha male at all. When i walk into a situation i don't try to be the loudest, i don't try to be the biggest, i don't try to outsmart everyone, but i DO have a friend who does.

And everyone resents him for it.

Be real to yourself guys, don't become something that you aren't because someone on this site (probably with about as little experience as you) told you to be.

It isn't rocket science.

 

[War Against Betaism]

First off, the illusion of an alpha male is in your eyes and the eyes of culture. We as a society have surpassed a point where you need be effected by an alpha male, and you can act however you want and make a reputation for yourself (it isn't given based on some sense of your alpha maleness people get from you).

That's wrong, we haven't surpassed it yet, or else this site would not have existed, Mystery wouldn't be on TV, and David DeAngelo would be writing newsletters to up and coming business men instead of betas. While society has evolved and we grew more intelligent, our needs for the alpha male have unnecessarily stayed within us.

Alpha male to me says ****y and arrogant. Look at the ones around you in your life, many of them fit the same description.

Your conception of an alpha male is completely distorted. Those are called jackasses, not alpha males.

Understand that you don't learn a bunch of tricks and then become an alpha male, and then the women come. You become who you want to be and people like the kids on this site try to categorize you because things seem to be going well for you.

You've taken this site the wrong way then. The tricks ultimately came from the mindset of the Alpha male. The more we use the tricks, the more we understand the mindset of an Alpha male, and those tricks become natural, a part of us. Think of them as crutches before you can walk.

And this being yourself crap is full of sh1t. Being ourselves is being an ignorant youngling in this world who is desperately trying to strive in this world with much needed knowledge. None of us were predetermined to become whatever profession we may end up in, unless you're religious.

In the last three years since i've continued on my own path of personal discovery, and things have been very well (I've slept with four girls in the last week....two of them at the same time). It's not because i'm an alpha male at all. When i walk into a situation i don't try to be the loudest, i don't try to be the biggest, i don't try to outsmart everyone, but i DO have a friend who does.

Good for you, but you can't deny that this site helped you in any way or form. You gained some knowledge on how to pick up women. It planted a seed in your brain, and while that knowledge was minimal, your brain expanded on this subject and grew rapidly fast. While we learn things from reading books, in all actuality, our brains are constantly trying to make sense of things, and we know more about a subject without trying to learn from it.

 

[Intenseintents]

That's wrong, we haven't surpassed it yet, or else this site would not have existed, Mystery wouldn't be on TV, and David DeAngelo would be writing newsletters to up and coming business men instead of betas. While society has evolved and we grew more intelligent, our needs for the alpha male have unnecessarily stayed within us.

Society has made sex such an advertisement that everyone wants to buy it. Of course people will want to have sex because it is in our nature to reproduce, and, naturally, because it feels great. Culture has made it into a total expression of your status and abilities as an individual. With this mindset, very few on this site will ever get anything out of it.

In every aspect of life that requires any participation on an individuals part, people look to make that aspect of their lives easier. If a shortcut genuinely helps someone reach their goal more quickly without any harm to themselves or others, i'm totally for it. But the problem is that the information on this site focuses far too much on making other people's ideas a habit in someone. It's habitual, not genuine. A habit will only take you so far. I'm not saying anything negative about people on this site, that's the last thing i'm trying to do...after all i totally understand the reasoning that brings someone here, as i had years ago.

Your conception of an alpha male is completely distorted. Those are called jackasses, not alpha males.

The term alpha male means "greatest male". The goal shouldn't be to be better than someone (or everyone) else. This isn't a big contest unless you make it one, and then you're just causing yourself unnecessary stress and anguish. People who put themselves over others because they believe they are any better for any reason are jackasses.

You've taken this site the wrong way then. The tricks ultimately came from the mindset of the Alpha male. The more we use the tricks, the more we understand the mindset of an Alpha male, and those tricks become natural, a part of us. Think of them as crutches before you can walk.

And this being yourself crap is full of sh1t. Being ourselves is being an ignorant youngling in this world who is desperately trying to strive in this world with much needed knowledge. None of us were predetermined to become whatever profession we may end up in, unless you're religious.

None of you are f***kin retarded. You don't need crutches to walk, there's nothing wrong with your damn legs. By using crutches you hold yourself back from running. You can read about walking all day long but still need to teach yourself to do it. I understand that this site does fully preach getting out and doing **** for yourself, but it usually ends in someone just clicking the next thread link instead of walking out the front door and doing something.

You aren't predetermined to be whatever you will be, no. But What does that have to do with being yourself? How can people on this site expect to find a girlfriend when they don't even understand or know themselves? This site tries to craft people into something instead of helping them to turn into their potential as an individual. There is a difference between giving someone a script to read from and letting them know how to write their own script instead.

Good for you, but you can't deny that this site helped you in any way or form. You gained some knowledge on how to pick up women. It planted a seed in your brain, and while that knowledge was minimal, your brain expanded on this subject and grew rapidly fast. While we learn things from reading books, in all actuality, our brains are constantly trying to make sense of things, and we know more about a subject without trying to learn from it.

I don't use anything from this website in the way it was preached, no. Of course i'm confident, i smile, i take care of myself etc., but that's just caring about yourself, not anything i needed a website to tell me. The things i practiced from this site only led me into bad situations, and within days of deciding to leave the teachings of this site in favor of doing what i've described above, my life took a turn for the much more optimistic and well. It motivated me far more than anything on this site ever did. The problem is that women are emotional creatures, not logical ones. Making sense of something from reading on the internet will only cause you to overanalyze and misinterpret it because, lets be honest, girls don't usually follow any set textbook example. The second you start calculating all this crap in your brain, you're pulling away from being natural (which is a goal on this site, but again the premise of this site inherently works against it), and the second you stop being natural, you'll lose touch of how to read her, how to react in a situation, and ultimately how to act.

 

[Interceptor]

Seems to me like you're one of the few exceptions who have failed using the resources on this website and wanted to drag people down for whatever reason you have.

Let me tell you something; men were originally supposed to be the alpha male, every single one of us. Society has evolved, and the use of the alpha male wasn't as necessary. However, our minds have not evolved. Our bodies are outdated vessels, and the alpha male is still in power in this world. We're not becoming a person who we aren't; we're unearthing what we were supposed to be in the first place.

Very Well Said.
Really, good job, War.

I hope all the young guys here realize what Men realize.
That we are to become Men, by REALZING ourSELVES.
That is, RECOGNIZING our SELVES, and MAXIMIZING our TRUE POTENTIAL.

Many of us start this journey when we ask these question about the Female mind, body, and behavior.
Many of us are strong and capable. Others unfortunately fall to the side and fail, and refuese to get back up again. And unfortunately, many of thise try to drag down the others around him, so he can feel safe, secure, and comfortable again in his own reality. He seeks validation for his failures.
We shoudl not hate him.
If we can, we should try to help him.
But not at the cost of our own Well Being and Peace of Mind.

If you want help...
We'll give it.

We won't beg you to take it though.
Rememeber that...



Every young Man has to realize something in what War said.
We have always had the potential for realizing our inherent Alpha Maleness and especially, our true Masculinity.
Some of us have already realized this, some have a long way to go.

But realize this, young brothers..
We're all in this together.(No ONE is Perfect, and NO ONE has all the answers.)
And we, as Brothers, are to FIGHT Together against the Enemy..not EACH OTHER.


We will lead each other into Battle, and help each other get through adversity.
Because the trait of Leadership, and correct action under Duress, are important for us as (potential) Alphas, as Men in this Life.

That is,

"Do not fight with your Brother. For you will have to depend on him during Combat."

Is this getting through?

 

[Intenseintents]

What's getting through is that you're 39 and perceiving your interactions with women as a BATTLE instead of what it truly is. I wouldn't consider myself a happy person unless i had peace of mind, as well as a sense of well being, so i do fully support them. The problem is with the approach this site takes.

"It's us vs. them!"

It only is if you make it so in your own mind.

It seems like many of you are seeking justification for the way you feel and much of this site feeds that. I believe that the lessons on paper can be great, but the overall ethics this site teaches men to take a far too systematic, and almost hostile approach to this.

Nothing prompted me to post this originally other than during reflections of my high school years with some friends. I realized how much happier and more successful i was without many of the things i had learned on here. I saw a lot of the problems in my mindset i had at that time, and i came back to describe those problems to people so that they wouldn't make the same mistakes.

 

[Interceptor]

Intense, I was waiting for you r reply.
And as I had predicted, you started a verbal assault compete with your projections on me and you believeing you haveme all figured out.

you're 39 and perceiving your interactions with women as a BATTLE instead of what it truly is.

First ioff, my age has nothign to do with anything. Maturity is not synonymous with age. And wisdom is clearly not synonymous with age, as evidenced by your post. You have assumed to much and inferred way too mcuh on my statement.

I never stated that the "Battle'" was against womne.
Yet you infered it. TO me, this speaks volumes on your own mindset on these things, certainly NOT Mine.

The battle, as I see it, is through the learning process and the journey in becoming a Man. All the challenges, obstacles, self doubt, self defeating and limiting thoughts, and negativity we will face in our future. A small part of it, for many a large part, is our dealings with the opposite sex.

It only is if you make it so in your own mind.

Very true. So first things, first, do not pretend to know what is in my heart, and what is my goal in MY Life. Realize that you, like everyone else, hve their own problems and their own demons to deal with.
Your mind set, and proper perspective, will allow you to more fully realize the positive aspects y9uowish to CREATE in YOUR LIFE.

It seems like many of you are seeking justification for the way you feel and much of this site feeds that. I believe that the lessons on paper can be great, but the overall ethics this site teaches men to take a far too systematic, and almost hostile approach to this.

Well, honestly, from your initail post, I believe that YOU are seeking "justification" for your "failure" to implemetn what has been stated in this website. I also believe that YOU are the one who is "hostile" here.
Tis site does not emphasize Ethic, you may ask too much of a website devoted to Seduction and Self Improvement to entail Ethics and Morality as well. Perhaps if you visdited the Mature Man forum you may see some of that. But certainly not in here, inj the High choool fourm. For obvious reasons. Which may make me want to ask you just why are YOU posting in HERE?
And what MAKES YOU so much more Qulaified to give advice than anyone else? Hmmm?
You mentioned my age as having to do with something, I bring yours up and your apparent lack of perspective on this matter too.

As far as your comment on the teachings being "Too Systematic"..
Well, the system is really an organized way at looking at how attraction and seduction works in the real world between humans. Nothing more.Real world seduction and attraction is nothing more than actual steps that happen in real life. But many many men have never ever been taught htis,. And don't even know where to start! And you look down upon them and the information.
This is callous of you. Truly.
The "techniques" have only been wriitten down and organized as of late becasue of the disturbingly high amount iof failure, rejection, and disappointment most males are experiencing in this day and age when trying to connect with the oppsite sex. That YOU disagree with it is trivial. For there ar emany young men out there who are thankfukl to find this information, and it has helped them.

Nothing prompted me to post this originally other than during reflections of my high school years with some friends. I realized how much happier and more successful i was without many of the things i had learned on here. I saw a lot of the problems in my mindset i had at that time, and i came back to describe those problems to people so that they wouldn't make the same mistakes.

Well, good for you if you truly had the PURE intent if Helping others. But it did not come out that way unfortunately for you.
You came off as snobbish and arrogant, and actual in your words, even "hostile".
People come here for help. It's not for you decide what it is they need. If you failed with it, you should not put down others who suceed at it.
We have to allow each other to creat e what we want.
Live and let live.


have to go now.
I hope you don't tak ethis post of mine the wrong way.
I intend to help, NOT harm.
It's the truth.
I hope you can see at leas that.
Keep living your life and do what YOU want to be happy.
Us ewhat you feel you need to use. But don't think this puts you in the position to DECIDE and DICTATE what others shoudl do and not do based only on your "reflections".

Good luck to you.

 

[War Against Betaism]

In every aspect of life that requires any participation on an individuals part, people look to make that aspect of their lives easier. If a shortcut genuinely helps someone reach their goal more quickly without any harm to themselves or others, i'm totally for it. But the problem is that the information on this site focuses far too much on making other people's ideas a habit in someone. It's habitual, not genuine. A habit will only take you so far. I'm not saying anything negative about people on this site, that's the last thing i'm trying to do...after all i totally understand the reasoning that brings someone here, as i had years ago.

Us humans change anyways. Humans are not satisfied to be what we presently are, and will always expand and expand. This is just an easier way of doing things.

The term alpha male means "greatest male". The goal shouldn't be to be better than someone (or everyone) else. This isn't a big contest unless you make it one, and then you're just causing yourself unnecessary stress and anguish. People who put themselves over others because they believe they are any better for any reason are jackasses.

You automatically think that people who think they're better than others are jackasses. Nope. When they start treating them like jackasses that's when they are. Besides, it's not even a matter of being alpha or not. We all view every single person that we come by as "inferior" or "superior", even from people we hardly even know. It's a natural part of human instinct. Don't tell me that you've never looked at a person and thought "oh, I'm of higher/lower status than him". If you didn't, you're a robot.

None of you are f***kin retarded. You don't need crutches to walk, there's nothing wrong with your damn legs. By using crutches you hold yourself back from running. You can read about walking all day long but still need to teach yourself to do it. I understand that this site does fully preach getting out and doing **** for yourself, but it usually ends in someone just clicking the next thread link instead of walking out the front door and doing something.

You took my metaphor the wrong way. Besides, regarding your last sentence, that's their fault. There are many people here who have succeeded using the material taught by others. It's up to them how far they succeed. You can be a fatass and buy all the expensive and most proven gym equipment available on this earth, but unless you do something about it, you're going to remain a fatass. I used that metaphor since you didn't seem to get my crutches one.

You aren't predetermined to be whatever you will be, no. But What does that have to do with being yourself? How can people on this site expect to find a girlfriend when they don't even understand or know themselves? This site tries to craft people into something instead of helping them to turn into their potential as an individual. There is a difference between giving someone a script to read from and letting them know how to write their own script instead.

Well, I can see why you started this thread anyways; you're looking at this whole subject the wrong way. We're understanding woman better because we're all ignorant of how to deal with women. Do you expect people to be accountants without reading a single math book his entire life? Don't tell me you have never asked anyone for help in your life. This is just a larger example of it.

I don't use anything from this website in the way it was preached, no. Of course i'm confident, i smile, i take care of myself etc., but that's just caring about yourself, not anything i needed a website to tell me. The things i practiced from this site only led me into bad situations, and within days of deciding to leave the teachings of this site in favor of doing what i've described above, my life took a turn for the much more optimistic and well. It motivated me far more than anything on this site ever did. The problem is that women are emotional creatures, not logical ones. Making sense of something from reading on the internet will only cause you to overanalyze and misinterpret it because, lets be honest, girls don't usually follow any set textbook example. The second you start calculating all this crap in your brain, you're pulling away from being natural (which is a goal on this site, but again the premise of this site inherently works against it), and the second you stop being natural, you'll lose touch of how to read her, how to react in a situation, and ultimately how to act.

So tell me, why weren't you this successful before you visited this site? Even if you did fail, reading the material here gave you new perspectives. You can deny it all you want, but this site has helped you in some way or form.

 

[War Against Betaism]

There was so much I wanted to write about that reply to you but you already took care of it yourself :rockon:

 

[Intenseintents]

War -

You infer far too much of my own intention.

Us humans change anyways. Humans are not satisfied to be what we presently are, and will always expand and expand. This is just an easier way of doing things.

Using scotch tape to fix a broken water pipe might be a shortcut that works, but you only do yourself temporary good before it all falls apart. This site often tells people to do something without helping them to truly understand why they are doing it. Can you not admit that instead of using the tactics of one (or a few) man, it would be more productive to understand the workings of the world and it's interactions, and then react according to your personal comprehension of these things? If you act without understanding the reasons (not the BS "because it's C+F and chicks love that!" reasons) that what your doing is working then you've gained nothing but an empty experience.

You automatically think that people who think they're better than others are jackasses. Nope. When they start treating them like jackasses that's when they are. Besides, it's not even a matter of being alpha or not. We all view every single person that we come by as "inferior" or "superior", even from people we hardly even know. It's a natural part of human instinct. Don't tell me that you've never looked at a person and thought "oh, I'm of higher/lower status than him". If you didn't, you're a robot.

We perceive a lot in this world, and much of it is instinctual, i believe in having a stronger frame of mind than to be controlled by all of these notions. By thinking (and importantly, embracing the though) that you are better or worse than anyone else will only hinder your interactions with that person. You will be subconsciously condescending to that person, or submissive. This makes everything a ranking system, where you feel the need to compare yourself to others in order to feel....what? Satisfaction? Inadequacy? If you want to feel content with yourself, strive to make your own life better, while not concerning yourself with your status amongst the people around you. Be happy for yourself, not to outdo the rest.

You took my metaphor the wrong way. Besides, regarding your last sentence, that's their fault. There are many people here who have succeeded using the material taught by others. It's up to them how far they succeed. You can be a fatass and buy all the expensive and most proven gym equipment available on this earth, but unless you do something about it, you're going to remain a fatass. I used that metaphor since you didn't seem to get my crutches one.

I agree that the problem is on an individual basis, but with the state of mind that many young high school kids come to this site with, i see so many using this as the crutch that I perceived in your example (which is why i interpreted it that way in the first place, because i saw how it applied). I just think that far too much of the high school forum is filled with information that won't do anything but hinder their minds at this point. I feel like the high school forums should be more geared towards becoming happy with yourself rather than trying to use external devices to make you happy (be it a girlfriend, a sports team, whatever. Those things should come after you are happy with yourself).

Well, I can see why you started this thread anyways; you're looking at this whole subject the wrong way. We're understanding woman better because we're all ignorant of how to deal with women. Do you expect people to be accountants without reading a single math book his entire life? Don't tell me you have never asked anyone for help in your life. This is just a larger example of it.

Accounting has nothing to do with emotion. There's so much more to deal with than just a statistical factor when it comes to much of the desires of those who come to this site. Is there anything wrong with coming to a website in search of some help if you're a confused young guy? Not at all. I've noted several times that i'm not attacking anyone on this site, moreso i feel that much of the advice on this site is given either without experience to back it or with selfish manipulation in mind. This isn't hostile on anybodies part, but is rather ignorance or morally sacrificial in my mind. I don't speak of morals in a religious sense or anything, but rather what I believe (and i understand we all have personal perceptions and beliefs, but hear it out). I believe that everyone perceives the world, just like we do (in different manners, but we all have perceptory senses) so we should respect that fact rather than take advantage of it and it's opportunities (when it comes to other people and putting your own well being above theirs.)

Much of the advice on this site (whether it be in accordance with the overall belief or not) sacrifices those moral principles in favor of getting laid, or being better than someone else.

Is that who you want to be?

 

[Intenseintents]

Interceptor-

In response to your first statement -

I never did anything of the sort. I misinterpreted your battle example and thought you were still referring to women. We are after all, on a dating and seduction website, and you didn't exactly specify what you meant. You should be able to understand how, with this interpretation, i noted your age and how silly it would be for a grown man to look at women like some sort of enemy in war. Other than that i did no assuming about you or your character. I apologize if you took any offense to it. I did not mean to infer that age defines wisdom or vice versa, but rather i was isolating the example based on my own misinterpretations, which i believe were easy to make given the subject.

(In reference to the second paragraph) -

As you blame me for inferring too much, i've explained above. But now you must ask yourself why you are still inferring so much about me?

When i read the battle quote, i truly believed it was in reference to woman, i can attest that this is not a result of my personal mindset on woman, for i found it ridiculous and commented on it's absurdity. I don't understand how the ridicule of an outlandish statement means that the subject of absurdity is actually an inverted truth in my own mind? I say that it's backwards to look at woman as enemies, and yet that means i view them as such?

Logic...?

While i don't like the reference to life being a "battle" (it's only as hard as you make it on yourself), I see where you come from when it comes to overcoming the negativity in oneself. I definitely believe that this needs to be done, but i see it preached far less on this site than the manipulations and tricks.

(In reference to your third and fourth paragraphs) -

All i see here is a defensive reaction. I was here looking for nothing when i originally posted this, now i feel like defending a point based on boredom. I need no justification for my past, i've learned from my past to make myself better and better each day. Tips on this site had worked for me before i left, but they still didn't teach me to become who i wanted to be, or how to truly obtain what i wanted. There are lessons on here that I believe to be wonderful, and some i believe to be just plain common sense. But many of the lessons teach you to trick someone using the experience of someone else genuinely had. In some parts of life, such as accounting (to use wars example), books can teach you everything you need to know. The problem with this subject matter is that it truly isn't enough to just read it, you need to experience. If you want to experience and understand life though, you're only going to cheat yourself if you try to take shortcuts vs actual experience. Not that this site openly says it, but the way that it allows high schoolers to feed off of eachothers drama and try to react and answer questions on it, many times the blind lead the blind. (and far more consistently than a valid source).

Aren't these kids trying to become mature men someday? Then why are you training them to do something differently than a mature man would?

I'm not giving advice, i'm warning about the potential dangers of this site. Advice would be my saying "use c+F and some kino and she'll love you". But it's that advice that caused me so much confusion back when i was this age (and i was quite intelligent at that age as well, and considered a lot of the tips on this site quite seriously). I'm not trying to generalize a lot of people on this site...but for example when i started checking these forums years ago, i showed two of my friends, and they both got involved in them as well.

To this day, both of those friends are unsuccessful with women, and still check back here for advice far too often. A party will go on, i'll chill and have a great time, then maybe hook up if it's in the cards. They'll sit around analyzing girls reactions and how to read them, then get all nervous because they're thinking way too hard about the situation. Same friends i've had for years, and they've been in just about the same situations i've been in.

Can you understand why, seeing this constant example of failure, i would want to come and warn some kids here about not taking all of this to heart?

How can you see an apparent lack of perspective in this matter? I truly appreciate and enjoy my life. I've found success in many of the areas that young people on this site strive to find success in (girls, grades, having a good time and staying productive in life). I made an observation based on nothing but years and years of personal experience, and of course everyone got all defensive.

Don't be hypocritical and tell me to disregard age while you do it just as readily. My one reference wasn't even to attack anything more than a single misunderstood statement.

(In reference to the next bit...)-
From the beginning i have been supporting certain aspects of this site, but i believe that certain aspects of it cause the downfall of as many young men as it helps. I don't look down on these men, i've been talking about a mindset that supports the opposite views this entire time. I'm talking about helping people who i feel are probably going through a similar stage in their lives as i've gone through (which was recently enough that i remember it well, but long enough ago that i still have a much more outside looking-in perspective on it.) I know what worked for me. I know what made me happy, and what made me successful in my own eyes. It was this realization that lead me to posting on this site again, after two years. Not a sudden interest in boasting myself or anything like that, i'm not thirteen.

I was thankful to find this information, until i realized how much of it lead me in a poor direction.

(I'm out of space so i'm cutting quotes to shorten - this is in reference to the last bit)

You're full of self-contradiction. I shouldn't post about reflections on my life that HELPED to make me HAPPIER? What the hell is this site about if it isn't positive change? I made positive change, and i noted that a lot of it started when i stopped taking everything i saw on this site as golden advice. I'm not twisting anyone's arm here. If you read my information and disregard it, i truly hope that whoever is reading has a wonderful and successful life. I only want to point out an alternate that worked far better for me, and apparently would have worked far better for my friends who still try to use advice from here.

Stop being so condescending, it's never becoming of anyone to be so. Snobbish and arrogant is as far from my personality as one could get, so i find it hard to believe that it came through so strongly in my writing, especially with my intentions. I'm not trying to get into a name-calling fight here or anything, because i don't see the sense in it. Why is everyone here getting so defensive about this? What i've talked about, it worked. I am living proof of that. Does that mean it's the right answer for everyone in the world? No. But all advice on this site is more or less valuable on an individual basis, so why look at it with so little understanding?

 

[War Against Betaism]

Using scotch tape to fix a broken water pipe might be a shortcut that works, but you only do yourself temporary good before it all falls apart. This site often tells people to do something without helping them to truly understand why they are doing it. Can you not admit that instead of using the tactics of one (or a few) man, it would be more productive to understand the workings of the world and it's interactions, and then react according to your personal comprehension of these things? If you act without understanding the reasons (not the BS "because it's C+F and chicks love that!" reasons) that what your doing is working then you've gained nothing but an empty experience.

It's true; it's better to understand about how it works than reading techniques, but this site has also offered those understandings. In fact, that's the reason why people tell newcomers to read the bible first instead of heading straight into the techniques. Also, working on your personal comprehension, most of us don't know how to work things by ourselves and need guidance. Us humans are not as different as you think. The sum to 1+1 is always going to be the same no matter who solves the problem, unless you're retarded.

Though to be honest I really don't know where people who come straight into this site for advice are coming from, because I read a lot of books, watched a lot of seminars, and gained a lot of on hands experience before coming here.

We perceive a lot in this world, and much of it is instinctual, i believe in having a stronger frame of mind than to be controlled by all of these notions. By thinking (and importantly, embracing the though) that you are better or worse than anyone else will only hinder your interactions with that person. You will be subconsciously condescending to that person, or submissive. This makes everything a ranking system, where you feel the need to compare yourself to others in order to feel....what? Satisfaction? Inadequacy? If you want to feel content with yourself, strive to make your own life better, while not concerning yourself with your status amongst the people around you. Be happy for yourself, not to outdo the rest.

Hey, that's life; it's not a choice that we can choose to feel inferior or superior to another person. These decisions are happening at an unconscious level. This is usually referred to as the pecking order for reference.

I agree that the problem is on an individual basis, but with the state of mind that many young high school kids come to this site with, i see so many using this as the crutch that I perceived in your example (which is why i interpreted it that way in the first place, because i saw how it applied). I just think that far too much of the high school forum is filled with information that won't do anything but hinder their minds at this point. I feel like the high school forums should be more geared towards becoming happy with yourself rather than trying to use external devices to make you happy (be it a girlfriend, a sports team, whatever. Those things should come after you are happy with yourself).

Yeah, being happy, I definitely agree with that. In fact, if you look at the Don Juan Tips forum, you'll see I made an article about just being happy about yourself being the ultimate key to really attracting woman. It's called "Approaching Woman - The Fear". Unfortunately, it received no responses. Sad too, I honestly think it's the best advice anyone could possibly get on this site because it covers a massive amount of problems that no single technique can cover up.

Accounting has nothing to do with emotion. There's so much more to deal with than just a statistical factor when it comes to much of the desires of those who come to this site. Is there anything wrong with coming to a website in search of some help if you're a confused young guy? Not at all. I've noted several times that i'm not attacking anyone on this site, moreso i feel that much of the advice on this site is given either without experience to back it or with selfish manipulation in mind. This isn't hostile on anybodies part, but is rather ignorance or morally sacrificial in my mind. I don't speak of morals in a religious sense or anything, but rather what I believe (and i understand we all have personal perceptions and beliefs, but hear it out). I believe that everyone perceives the world, just like we do (in different manners, but we all have perceptory senses) so we should respect that fact rather than take advantage of it and it's opportunities (when it comes to other people and putting your own well being above theirs.)

Much of the advice on this site (whether it be in accordance with the overall belief or not) sacrifices those moral principles in favor of getting laid, or being better than someone else.

Is that who you want to be?

ohhh now I can see your point of view. So sort of like people are getting women unwarranted, almost like stealing money. Eh, I really have no response to this. I really care little of the intentions of another person through a message board, though I could probably guess that no one here is a jackass like you inferred before, because jackasses think they're too good to be on this site and can't admit they need some help.

 

[Intenseintents]

I'm glad to see we're coming to agreements on some of this, it makes this productive instead of just an argument.

It is possible to teach yourself to disregard initial notions of the "pecking order". But it's mental process as opposed to a quick decision, and i don't expect a lot of the young people here to fully understand that because of the emotional changes they are going through in this stage of their lives.

I'm not calling people here jackasses, i'm calling the notions that many people suggest (based on experience or not) as jackassish. It's a lot easier to be a douchebag over the internet because you can just type what you think sounds good. I doubt that a large number of those who give advice on this site practice their own advice effeciently (just by looking at the number of people with problems, the number replying, and the amount of actual advice around here).

 

[Grand Wizzard Alamar]

Using the tactics of an online website won't do anything for you. Even if you learn some great line or way to introduce yourself to a girl, this website trains your mind to suddenly consider way too much nitpicky BS.

Yeah theres so much irony out here. Unless you truly know what you're doing/saying and why, a purpose for your actions, effects of your actions... you're simply following a guide and not doing things how you naturally would have done them.

Some people need change though because they lack self confidence, maybe they're weird or strange, maybe they're seeking improvement of their entire life, but sometimes they just come here to ask a question because they think this forum will solve all of their problems like a God.
If you're looking for a God, I have bad news, this website won't teach you anything completely "true". If you want the truth you've gotta do whatever you've gotta do on your own. This site only gives hints and possibilities of how to act or react.

I think the true purpose of becoming a Don Juan is to lose the overpowering need for desperation and self-demoting failure with women, and improve yourself in mind, body and spirit. This is about us as men learning to treat women (and other men) simply neutrally. You don't love or hate them, you just have fun with them and live your life to the fullest with the people around you.