If you didn't have sexual urges

[plumber]

You're right, the urge is very much built in. But even that aside, I think women are so aesthetically pleasing. I can look at a cat and think that it is a beautiful cat, and there's no "urge" involved. Same thing with women, they are very attractive creatures.

yes, i get what you mean. but imagine a guy that is "handsome or beautiful" feels different.

 

[zekko]

yes, i get what you mean. but imagine a guy that is "handsome or beautiful" feels different.

I've always agreed with Elaine's assessment of male "beauty" (from Seinfeld). The female body is a work of art. The male body is hideous, it's utilitarian - it's like a jeep, for getting around in. In other words, women are built to look good, men are built for action.

 

[BadBoy89]

If you didn't have any sexual urges towards women, would you still pursue them and hang around with them just for fun?

Or would you use this new sense of freedom for other pursuits?

A man can have sexual urges and have freedom. One has nothing to do with the other.

The question is like saying "if you weren't a man, would you hang around women?"

I don't believe men who say "If I am not attracted to them, I still enjoy their company." Men generally can't stand to hang out with a woman unless there is a chance of sex. And for that, they have to be attracted. Even if its not complete lust at the beginning, if she on the younger side and OK looking, the man will eventually fall for her.

I don't see men being friends with women who are 20 kg overweight.
I don't see men being friends with really ugly women.
I don't see men being friends with single mothers.
I don't see men being friends with women who in nursing homes.
Yet men will be friends with sluts if they look good.

A man isn't hanging around a woman is he's not attracted and there is no chance of sex.

 

[inquisitor]

The male body is hideous, it's utilitarian - it's like a jeep, for getting around in. In other words, women are built to look good, men are built for action.

I disagree. That sounds propagandistic in nature. Our bodies are not hideous.

The female body is utilitarian, even more like a jeep for carrying (at least) one actual human being at a time, compared to men.

Also, women find beauty in the male body. Why else would they be having genuine sex with men for? Moreover, men are built to look good as well. Why else would there be any discussion of physical attraction, if not for men looking good?

There are dudes and gals who just give up on looking good, and/or give up on accepting their urges as normal, even necessary.

 

[zekko]

Also, women find beauty in the male body. Why else would they be having genuine sex with men for? Moreover, men are built to look good as well. Why else would there be any discussion of physical attraction, if not for men looking good?

Well, there can be beauty in the construction of anything, even in a spider or an electric drill. The beauty is in the design and function. As for men looking good, very attractive men are the exception rather than the rule. If you look at the statistics, women find most men unattractive, and maybe only one or two guys out of ten good looking. While men in general find most (dating age) women attractive. Women even recognize the beauty in each other.

Men put effort into looking good, they need to do grooming and hygiene to be presentable, and to not be disgusting. They want to appear to be a well oiled and well functioning machine. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I know some guys place a great deal of vanity into thinking they are good looking. Certainly men can be an erotic or dream object for a woman, but generally I agree more with Elaine.

 

[Vanderdonck]

I've always agreed with Elaine's assessment of male "beauty" (from Seinfeld). The female body is a work of art. The male body is hideous, it's utilitarian - it's like a jeep, for getting around in. In other words, women are built to look good, men are built for action.

That was a hilarious line, classic. But I agree with @inquisitor . After all if the male body were hideous why do so many people go to see Michelangeo's David, and why would he sculpt it? Just as an example.

Men generally can't stand to hang out with a woman unless there is a chance of sex.

if she on the younger side and OK looking, the man will eventually fall for her.

A man isn't hanging around a woman is he's not attracted and there is no chance of sex.

This hasn't been my experience at all. A person is a person and if they're good company that's cool with me. If she's good looking and I attract her that's cool too. But I think the kind of man you are describing here probably has scarcity if he's falling for every young babe he sees and automatically rejecting everyone else who's not.

 

[Mike32ct]

This hasn't been my experience at all. A person is a person and if they're good company that's cool with me. If she's good looking and I attract her that's cool too. But I think the kind of man you are describing here probably has scarcity if he's falling for every young babe he sees and automatically rejecting everyone else who's not.

Agree. For a guy to be friends with women, he probably needs at least one of the following:

A) He’s already taken.

B) He has enough abundance where he isn’t that hung up on having sex with her.

C) He can drop the ego and just accept she’s a cool and attractive chick who happens to get the D somewhere else.

D) He’s not attracted to her, but she’s still a cool person.

 

[zekko]

That was a hilarious line, classic. But I agree with @inquisitor . After all if the male body were hideous why do so many people go to see Michelangeo's David, and why would he sculpt it? Just as an example.

It may not be completely and totally true, but there is some truth to it. Anyway, you don't see people lusting over the David statue.

 

[BadBoy89]

A person is a person and if they're good company that's cool with me. If she's good looking and I attract her that's cool too. But I think the kind of man you are describing here probably has scarcity if he's falling for every young babe he sees and automatically rejecting everyone else who's not.

Agree. For a guy to be friends with women, he probably needs at least one of the following:
A) He’s already taken.

B) He has enough abundance where he isn’t that hung up on having sex with her.

C) He can drop the ego and just accept she’s a cool and attractive chick who happens to get the D somewhere else.

D) He’s not attracted to her, but she’s still a cool person.

These are fair points, but before we go further, it has to be defined what a woman as a "friend" is. If we are talking once a month a man has lunch with a woman during working hours and they split the bill, then yes knock yourself out. If we are talking they see each other 2 times a week and the man is single and wants kids and she's good age to get pregnant and he's attracted to her, but enjoys her company, then no, that's ridiculous. It's not in a man's DNA to do that.

Now Mike32ct has good points, but the conversation now changes. With (a) and (b) The question is now "If a man is getting regular good sex from his girlfriend who he really likes, or if a man is dating 2-3 women at once and getting sex from them, can he be friends with a girl he's kind of attracted to?" Well then, yes he can.

With (c), I don't think that's happening. If a man accepts that, he's got bigger issues.

With (d), I don't think that's happening either. There is some level of attraction if he's hanging out with her.

I don't think single men who want to have kids are friends with 48 year old overweight single mothers of 2 teenage boys because they enjoy their company and are such cool people.

 

[Vanderdonck]

These are fair points, but before we go further, it has to be defined what a woman as a "friend" is. If we are talking once a month a man has lunch with a woman during working hours and they split the bill, then yes knock yourself out. If we are talking they see each other 2 times a week and the man is single and wants kids and she's good age to get pregnant and he's attracted to her, but enjoys her company, then no, that's ridiculous. It's not in a man's DNA to do that.

Now Mike32ct has good points, but the conversation now changes. With (a) and (b) The question is now "If a man is getting regular good sex from his girlfriend who he really likes, or if a man is dating 2-3 women at once and getting sex from them, can he be friends with a girl he's kind of attracted to?" Well then, yes he can.

With (c), I don't think that's happening. If a man accepts that, he's got bigger issues.

With (d), I don't think that's happening either. There is some level of attraction if he's hanging out with her.

I don't think single men who want to have kids are friends with 48 year old overweight single mothers of 2 teenage boys because they enjoy their company and are such cool people.

I see your point. I'm definitely B/C.

I can only speak from my own experience. Since I'm a man of abundance, it doesn't bother me if a woman I find attractive would rather be friends. IME they have often hooked me up with other girls, and on occasion I've hooked up with female friends anyway. The line blurs sometimes but even if it's 100% platonic it's not a blow to my ego personally because there are plenty of women out there.

Or if she's unattractive to me and we hit it off (like we met through other channels) that's fine too, then she's like a guy anyway. And really I don't even see my good guy friends 2 times a week, sometimes not even twice a month.

I think the whole "reject her friendship" thing often comes from a scarcity mindset. It usually means the guy has already developed feelings for her before he's even kissed or at least smashed her. I get it if the guy in question just doesn't want chick friends, but often these guys are butt hurt and angry and think it'll hurt her back somehow. For me even if I don't plan on being great friends with a girl, I'll still keep the door open, people are people and there can be other benefits to being on good terms with someone.

So I guess my larger point is men who can't handle it probably have some inner game work to do. OR they just don't want that which is fine, only the man himself knows for sure.

 

[jhonny9546]

I also value the support that some(very few) offer.

I'm more that way.
I won't vote for emotional support, but having women to cook dor you, keep house clean, being interested in me in autentic way, or do something for you make you feel good

 

[Mike32ct]

These are fair points, but before we go further, it has to be defined what a woman as a "friend" is. If we are talking once a month a man has lunch with a woman during working hours and they split the bill, then yes knock yourself out. If we are talking they see each other 2 times a week and the man is single and wants kids and she's good age to get pregnant and he's attracted to her, but enjoys her company, then no, that's ridiculous. It's not in a man's DNA to do that.

For me, a girl friend is a woman I meet up with about once every two weeks (usually to go eat) and probably talk on the phone once a week.

To be fair, I’m older, so I’m not worried about locking down a future wife or mom

Now Mike32ct has good points, but the conversation now changes. With (a) and (b) The question is now "If a man is getting regular good sex from his girlfriend who he really likes, or if a man is dating 2-3 women at once and getting sex from them, can he be friends with a girl he's kind of attracted to?" Well then, yes he can.

I think we all agree on that.

With (c), I don't think that's happening. If a man accepts that, he's got bigger issues.

Under c), whether you choose to be her friend or not (or just acquaintance) is up to you. But, I want to make the point that envy can be quite toxic. As hard as it is, I would highly recommend getting over the fact that a chick in your social circle is having sex with another dude.

If you want to go after a taken chick, that’s totally up to you and beyond the scope of this thread.

But feeling butthurt or less of man because she’s dating/banging somebody else is terrible for confidence and self-esteem. I’ve been there, but got over it a few years ago.

And no, she doesn’t automatically think of the friend guy as a loser. Plenty of women think very highly of their guy friends.

With (d), I don't think that's happening either. There is some level of attraction if he's hanging out with her.

I don't think single men who want to have kids are friends with 48 year old overweight single mothers of 2 teenage boys because they enjoy their company and are such cool people.

I had one unattractive female friend who sought me out for friendship. She turned out to be very intelligent, sarcastic and fun. And I learn more about women the more I hang out with them.