If women do the choosing - I have a nightmare

[Island]

Warning: This post is 4 fifths afc backlash, with the remainder being a genuine plea for advice for a situation not mentioned on the sosuave boards.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not going to say where I live again, but I must say, I really MUST SAY, everybody else here seems to have an easier time. Are the women where you live really easier, or is it just me???

Case in point. My friend who is supposed to be AFC, gets his colleagues to agree to go on dates with him by using corny but sexual pick up lines. He chickens out at the last moment. I haven't even gone anywhere close to that, only practicing my artless C&F or rapport building, and yet I get shut out or tested immediately.

I'm sure you might say it's just me. But maybe you don't know what it's like to live in a conservative society. Please, I really mean it, if any of you DJs know what I'm dealing with, how would you improvise and adapt to the situation?

You can't say all women like sex secretly, because I can bet with you that more than half of these women have never even achieved orgasm and merely have sex for the closeness, and consequently they test test test and shut out many suitors who appear too blatant. And what the hell? Did I catch all the chicks when they're not ovulating??

 

[sharpshooter]

get into detail with one of your "rejections"

you're too vague

 

[Ol'BlueEyes]

never assume

You can't say all women like sex secretly, because I can bet with you that more than half of these women have never even achieved orgasm and merely have sex for the closeness, and consequently they test test test and shut out many suitors who appear too blatant. And what the hell? Did I catch all the chicks when they're not ovulating??

You also can't assume all women have some secret vendetta against you and that's what keeping you from getting laid.
Don't blame conservative society, either; that's a copout.
I think the guys who have it easy have lots, and I mean LOTS of friends. The more people you know, the more girls they can introduce you to.

 

[Island]

Okay

Ol' Blue Eyes, you are right! Thank you for reframing my perspective. But I just want to know if the rules of the game are different for me. You guys have posted frequently about wild nipple licking behaviour and bi curious girls in clubs. I'll be damned if I ever see one of that.

In David de Angelo's latest newsletter he tells about a woman who "told me that she likes to date a guy for a couple
of weeks, then form a monogamous, long-term, boyfriend
and girlfriend relationship with him, then sleep
together."

I think that's the vibes I'm getting from female society in general.

Cases in point. Friendly girl at a pharmacy. She wears a headscarf so that possibly means she's a conservative muslim. One early morning I'm at the corner shop nearby and see her waiting outside the pharmacy. I happened to be walking past her so I ask "When does the pharmacy open?" with a smile. There ensues a surprised, uncomfortable look on her face. She STARTS avoiding eye contact and gives a matter of fact answer. I'm like wtf??

Then I go macking on chicks. I admit that my game needs to be improved. In fact that may be the crucial matter. Girly shop assistant. I go in on the premise that I need her recommendations on what to get my lil sister. Analysis: Language barrier. I didn't build rapport as much as work on slipping in under the guise of customer. I didn't work on body language, and soon I got negative signals: nervous laughter, her standing far away, her always asking the other shop assistant things. Under normal afc circumstances, I would ABORT the mission, but I say fukk that! I go for number close, and no number close.

I go clubbing. Analysis: Language barrier. I look for girls without guy friends, or groups of girls. I'm trying to build rapport, but I've got no real game or art, just bravado and the fukk it attitude. I see chick dancing. I go up to her with my wing and introduce. I get good friendly response from my target, but I notice her two fugly partners start giving the "suspicious, must warn pack of dangerous eagle!" look to each other. I block it out and monopolise the target's attention. My wingman is blocked out by the fuglies. I wanted to concentrate on building rapport. But my wing forces the issue, so I ask if they want to dance prematurely (I think). As soon as I do that the door politely closes. I try two more times later but things get progressively worse. Lesson: never give them a second chance. It makes you look desperate.

Second group. I approach one chick. I get "Ugh" facial expressions from the others. Friendliest chick makes attempt at conversation but it is dismissive. I make lame joke. It gets "Ugh" from EVERYBODY. I abort. I try again a bit later to make small talk. Dismissive small talk ensues. Lesson: Once you're in the Outright Deletion pile, it's a bit hard to get in past the b1tch shields and guards. Male pride says don't give them a 2nd chance, but how does this conflict with the Gunwitch method?

Third target in single night. I give a GREAT opener. Then I **** things up, haha. I start a great C&F routine on a lonely girl who doesn't seem to enjoy the clubbing too much. Once her questions started coming in I had trouble building rapport. I make one lousy joke, I get an "Ugh" (it was an 180* turn from her) and I hurriedly ABORT the mission.

Fourth target I won't even talk about. I fukked it up, plain and simple. Stupid, meaningless opener. Immediately saw that b1tch shield "You are below me" expression was up. Abort.

Night out was not only failure. Go to coffee shop. See this chick at corner of one table. I maintain eye contact. She notices me. In a slit second I break into a spontaneous smile. She MIRRORS! But I'm flustered by it. ABORT. She was with a group of guys and girls anyway.

Your analysis?

Mine is, are these girls on the look out for guys anyway, or are they disdaining us for even trying?

 

[Island]

I am prepared

Ready for flaming. Hold nothing back. But make it good criticism for god's sake!

No "You are wuss/afc" ****. I already know that. That's why I'm here goddamnit! I want to lose this afcness like a hunchback! (That last line is the sort of humour that gets the "Ugh" from the girls)

I'm not going to give up. I'm going to go out and do it more. BUT, I want to know, how do you detect promiscuous/ open chicks, or is everything about slipping past guards?

 

[Tails]

eye contact is only really the first thing you take a chance on to approach. you can only tell if she's interested AFTER you approach her, that's the only way. girls can look at you and just smile to be friendly. usually it doesn't mean too much, but sometimes it's her way of telling you: "i've seen you checking me out. *smiles* you can make your move now."

but hell, women are crazy things. you just never know until you make that move.

 

[Island]

Yah, but at least it confirms I'm not hideous.

 

[xblitz44x]

First of all, based on your first post you're making WAAAAAY too many assumptions. It has nothing to do with 'chicks like sex secretly'. Nothing to do with women being more open in my city as opposed to yours. They talk with who they want to talk to in a situation that they feel comfortable.

Your pharmacy approach was a little creepy and she was on guard. I can't blame her. She's walking down the street and a stranger asks her a question. She answered you. That's it. She's not expecting you to run some kind of 'game' on her. She doesn't know that you want to sleep with her. She doesn't even know that you want to get to know her more than that. You asked her a question, she answered.

The shop clerk...same thing. She was just doing her job. You asked her to help you with picking something out, and she was. Nervous laughter and not standing close to you isn't a 'negative signal'...it's what shop clerks do when they are helping a customer. I'd like to know exactly what you're saying to her. When you talk, make sure you're saying enough for her to relate to so that she can chime in herself. If she doesn't jump on your invitations into the conversation....she doesn't want to have sex with you. That's all.

I would keep working the clubbing game. So what if you get that suspicious look from the friends? They are going to do that. Just make sure that your approach is sincere and natural. If you come in with some creepy line you're going to get suspicious looks. The introducing yourself is great. Keep going with that. They shouldn't be nervous if all you're doing is making conversation.

I also think you're ejecting a little too fast. So the girls didn't want to dance...I would have kept the conversation going. Let them warm up to you a little bit.

Also, I say avoid the chicks who look like they hate clubbing. Typically they hate clubbing because they hate the guys who hit on them. You're automatically starting off with a huge strike on you. I avoid them like the plague and go after the one's that look like they are having a good time.

 

[Island]

Hi Xblitz, thx for your analysis. Could you please elaborate a little more about how I give out the creepy vibe? I sure hope that starting random conversation isn't construed as creepy.

The shop clerk I was talking to, I asked her about her opinions and preferences about such and such hoping to draw her out. Maybe she just isn't a very good salesperson? I've spoken to better ones and they seem okay with playing the game back at you. I didn't go for the number close though.

The problem with the suspicious look from friends is the peer pressure it exerts. A girl whose friends disapprove of her suitor would be seeling herself cheap if she accepts. Sounds like C0ckblock 101 to me. Their guards were up. I started all my lines with "You enjoying yourself", followed by an intro. No game right? Most weren't nervous, they were just dismissive.

The no dance chick. She practically shooed me away after she said no to the dancing. I did want to continue talking but she forced the matter. Oh well.

And here is the KEY of the matter. I observed the scene like a hawk and I can confirm that 70-80% of the people there were dancing, including the guys. NO wallflowers, no deadwood. What they weren't doing was approaching other people outside their group. Some guys would even pick a spot and just flap their arms and bob up and down. They would not make a move on any chicks!!

Do you really think that culture doesn't affect the application of PUA techniques? I can honestly say that a lot of the C&F and sexual lines written here would put off many chicks. But what do I know? When my sample size numbers in the hundreds, I'll let you guys know again. Just hope it won't be hundreds of wasted encounters.

 

[elvis aint dead yet]

The problem is, many guys on this site are either like you or are pretender who talk a big game online, but never really do it in the real world. They stroke their egos by posting BS stories on web sites.

But back to you, most people will never be that Master DON JUAN who can pick up any chic they want out of a hat.

Most people will improve themselves and will be average looking. Most people will be more confident around women, but most people won't leave a club with some stranger.

If you live in certain big cities, it happens more then smaller cities.

But take a look around. Most guys leave a club with their male friends.

Most people improve their game by having friends. Plenty of friends means you have an "in" with some of their female friends and so on.

What it seems to me is, you dont have that many friends, and therefore, you have to work a million times harder then somebody who has many friends.

You might not know everybody, but its a lot easier to start talking with somebody when you share a common ground.

"Oh you know so and so, so do I," and so on.

You dont always need a small inner circle and you'll still need to improve your game, but look at many people, talk to them and ask them how they met their bf or gf?

Many people will tell you through friends. OR a friend of a friend.
and so on.


All I know is, i remember my clubbing days. ME and my friends could get tons of numbers every time we went, but you know what, 99 percent of the time we threw those numbers out before we left that night, or we lost them. And probably some girls gave us fake numbers. Sometimes we hooked up at the club.

All i'm saying is, clubs are great to dance, great to hook up/maybe, and great to stroke your ego's.

BUt without a few friends, eventually, nobody will want to talk to you because they don't know you, nobody knows you.

 

[showtime17]

Well I am not going to be much help, but you dont win even if the girl is showing interest. Example -- I went out to a club and this chick started dancing with me. I mean I was just dancing around and she picked ME up. I talked to her for a bit after and she seemed interested and I got her number. But I dont know if she gave me a fake number or what, but I tried calling and all I got was a message that the user is not available right now...

 

[Island]

Friends

Okay, thx guys. I've heard before the importance of friends in getting chicks, but you guys really hammered home the point for me.

The thing is, what about the maxim of not ****ting where you eat? Sounds like if you're working with a friend of a friend you have to be very careful with your reputation.

I also don't see me hitting the high 50s when I'm thirty.

 

[melankot]

chin up mate, you on yer way....

yo island, been maxed out this few weeks and today was the first time on board and i see this. its a comprehensive break down on what happened at da club, and i must say that you did good job getting yer arse on the field. the flakes?no worries you live, you learn and at least you lived. on whether to keep at it in clubs, you yourself kno the answer. if you feel at home in other places then by all means pls try it out

keep the semangat burning mate, you doing fine.

 

[legolas]

Dude, it seems like your body language is conveying more than you give it credit for. The girls must feel your "weird" vibe and that puts them off. In fact if you were true to yourself you'd have a straightfoward "vibe" but you're probably being incogruent, saying one thing and having a "hidden" agenda which is not so hidden it seems. Girls feel it and it puts them off.

 

[Island]

Yo Melankot, how are you doing? Been well I hope. No worries mate. Rants have gotten it off my chest. But what's your experience in clubs been like so far? All I know is that I really, really need to find a place with my kind of music.

Legolas, I think you are wrong! I do not give out "weird" vibes! Absolutely not! In fact on club night I was acting MORE alpha than usual. I wasn't just acting brave, I was feeling like a hero. And as for girls "feeling" it, isn't it a bit arrogant for them to assume that when a guy chats them up it's to get under their skirt? Because sometimes it's not! Lastly, I didn't get far enough to say much. "Ugh!" from friends, a quick social boycott, and the target clams up. Bleh.

 

[max]

Couple of things, dude.

If your BL is not congruent with your game, a direct approach will not work. You have to engage the CBs first.

You do not approach a set with your wing. Play the scenario in your mind, and see how lame it looks. Go in solo, motion your wing to come in when ready.

Your vibe. Acting alpha/macho may come across as overcompensating for something. It's hard to see why you got blown out so often, because what you are doing is technically harmless and friendly. But if you are being overcocky/alpha/macho in the delivery, yeah, then being blown out would make natural sense.

Don't make stupid jokes. You'll see some guys make retarded jokes, but yet the whole group laughs along with him. The key is in the delivery, and the value projected by the guy. Sort of like when a girl likes you (you = high value in her eyes), she'll laugh at your lamest jokes. If you don't have that value, or can't project that value, don't make stupid jokes.

I just replied to your email and suggested meeting up sometime this week. After reading this post though, I'm pretty curious about you... shoot me a reply with your number and we can meet up for a drink tonight.

- Max

 

[Crank_It_Up]

Re: Okay

Originally posted by Island
...Fourth target I won't even talk about. I fukked it up, plain and simple. Stupid, meaningless opener. Immediately saw that b1tch shield "You are below me" expression was up. Abort...

only 4 attempts at the club? You could easily increase that number.... the more attempts, the more you learn, and the greater the chance for success. Don't be discouraged by lack of results, nothing will be accomplished unless you keep trying, so get back out there.

 

[Ebach]

"When does the pharmacy open?" with a smile.

You seem very enthusiastic about the pharmacy don't you? It's weird. People don't smile when they ask when the pharmacy would open. It's a dry factual question that's looking for a dry factual answer.

Try to get some awareness of what it is you're doing and what it'd look like from the other person's point of view.

 

[Island]

Great tips

You know what guys? Things are beginning to make more sense to me.

Thanks!