Cesare Cardinali
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2002
- Messages
- 911
- Reaction score
- 8
Gentlemen,
I am aware that I'll probably get flamed to death for this post; nevertheless, I'm always up for crossing swords with anyone in the name of meaningful discussion. Therefore, let us do battle....
First, let me say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for Pook's posts, however, I disagree with the trend in his recent posts, and on this forum, of categorizing men who are interested and focused on Seduction, as "Unusual" and somehow not living up to their full potential.
Now, from my understanding of what Pook has written on this subject, the path of Dionysis is the path of drunken pleasure, pleasure in food, wine, and women. In effect, it is decadent pleasure. Surrending to your basic animalistic desires; which will eventually consume and ruin you. Wheareas the path of Apollo is much more honorable as it focuses on self improvement, contribution to the world, and living life to its fullest potential. So far I agree that the path of Apollo seems to be the ideal state that we as DJs should strive for.
However, I disagree with the idea that putting sincere and vigorous focus and effort on the pursuit of women for seduction purposes (i.e. to satisfy our animalistic desires) is an indication that a man is going down the Dionysian path.
Pook affirms that if you focus on Seduction, you'll get sucked into the Dionysian path and that once you're too far down, you can no longer emerge and turn your life around.
The reason I have a hard time with this is that Pook, by his own admission, is well versed in Seduction techniques. He claims to not use them anymore, however, this is impossible.
Can someone with a PhD claim that he doesn't use what he learned anymore and instead will use his knowledge only up until the Graduate Level or High School level? Of course not. It has become second nature and it is a part of you that you cannot turn off like a light switch. It is, as SexPDX put it, a part of your subconscious database of experience
Therefore, although Pook's advice in the matter is well meaning, coming from an expert in Seduction techniques, it becomes tough for me to swallow.
Now, back on topic. If you are putting a sincere amount of effort into mastering seduction techniques, you are basically improving yourself in a way that would allow you to satisfy your sexual desires in the fastest and most effective way.
Therefore, if it takes 1 year of focus and effort to accomplish this goal, than yes, it would seem that for that one year, you are focusing simply on the Dionysian path; however, upon further examination, you are learning something that will pay off in the long run by allowing you to satisfy a very powerful need (i.e. getting sex) with minimal time investment. Therefore, under those circumstances, you are actually liberating yourself of a tremendous amount of time wasted in trial and error and you are more capable of succeeding in other ventures.
For example, by mastering this area of your life (Seduction), you'll be able to focus on tons of other stuff that are on the "Apollo" path. If you're capable of quickly seducing women via unusual techniques, than you'll have a lot more time for building your career, studying, working out, doing all the things that would bring your life deeper meaning.
However, if you are ignorant of these seduction techniques, than you'll end up focusing too much time on playing the "numbers" game, nexting women, treating all women the same, etc. You'll be dating tons of different women (because you'll still be a DJ) but you'll be wasting so much time weeding them out.
What I noticed from my own LTR experience as well as from those I observe at work, is that being in an LTR is akin to being on the Dionysian path.
I mean, you've got to focus a tremendous amount of time and energy to make the LTR successful. You've got to compromise, its give and take. When I am in an LTR, I hardly have time to work out given the long hours my work demands of me coupled with seeing my girlfriend, I eat out and gain weight, I get such regular sex that I don't even feel like I have to continue to hone my seduction skills anymore (hence when people get out of an LTR and need advice from the other DJs on how to move on with life, the most common adive is "go to the gym, workout, get some hobbies, do all the things you couldn't do while in an LTR"). Basically, being in an LTR puts me smack in the middle of the Dionysian path.
All the time wasted going to dinner, going to movies, hanging out, clubbing, etc, these are all "pleasures" that do not lead one down the Apollo path.
Now you may argue that people like Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson were in LTRs and were down the Apollo path; however, I counter that by saying that those times were different. Women back then knew that their role was simply "relief for the warrior", whereas now, every woman thinks she is a warrior as well.
Show me some famous guys these days who are down the Apollo path who have also remained in successful LTRs (besides Bill Clinton...LOL). Seriously! They are all divorced.
So when you're in an LTR or marriage, running around juggling two careers, daycare, taking the kids to school, cooking dinner, taking turns doing the dishes with your woman, when do you have time to focus on the Apollo path? You don't! You're life has become a routine designed to get pleasure, television, sex, food, alcohol, etc). No one actually set out on the path described above deliberately. No one says: "by the age of 40 I want to be 40 lbs overweight, I want some middle management job, I want a bunch of bratty kids, a fat nagging wife, and I want to watch 4 hours of TV every night, etc). It just happens once you get into an LTR and get comfortable. Give and take compromises where you end up giving your ambition and dreams so that you could take some pleasures (kids, sex, "love").
Two of my colleagues at work (both in their forties) have recounted to me how their wives have told them on numerous occasions: "Either you stop working so much overtime and start contributing to household duties and spending more time with your family, or I'm leaving you". Guess what both did? And their careers have been stagnating ever since.
The fact is that the only way to be on the Apollo path is to focus on your passions and keep women as "relief". And you can't have an LTR when you view a woman as simply relief. Therefore, it makes it crucial that the Warrior on the Apollo path master any seduction techniques, no matter how unusual, in order to quickly and effectively transform a woman from stranger to sexual relief. That way, once that problem is solved (i.e. how to quickly get sex), then the Warrior can go out and conquer his other more lofty goals.
I look forward to your thoughts.
Cheers,
Cesare Cardinali
[This message has been edited by Cesare Cardinali (edited 11-20-2002).]
I am aware that I'll probably get flamed to death for this post; nevertheless, I'm always up for crossing swords with anyone in the name of meaningful discussion. Therefore, let us do battle....
First, let me say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for Pook's posts, however, I disagree with the trend in his recent posts, and on this forum, of categorizing men who are interested and focused on Seduction, as "Unusual" and somehow not living up to their full potential.
Now, from my understanding of what Pook has written on this subject, the path of Dionysis is the path of drunken pleasure, pleasure in food, wine, and women. In effect, it is decadent pleasure. Surrending to your basic animalistic desires; which will eventually consume and ruin you. Wheareas the path of Apollo is much more honorable as it focuses on self improvement, contribution to the world, and living life to its fullest potential. So far I agree that the path of Apollo seems to be the ideal state that we as DJs should strive for.
However, I disagree with the idea that putting sincere and vigorous focus and effort on the pursuit of women for seduction purposes (i.e. to satisfy our animalistic desires) is an indication that a man is going down the Dionysian path.
Pook affirms that if you focus on Seduction, you'll get sucked into the Dionysian path and that once you're too far down, you can no longer emerge and turn your life around.
The reason I have a hard time with this is that Pook, by his own admission, is well versed in Seduction techniques. He claims to not use them anymore, however, this is impossible.
Can someone with a PhD claim that he doesn't use what he learned anymore and instead will use his knowledge only up until the Graduate Level or High School level? Of course not. It has become second nature and it is a part of you that you cannot turn off like a light switch. It is, as SexPDX put it, a part of your subconscious database of experience
Therefore, although Pook's advice in the matter is well meaning, coming from an expert in Seduction techniques, it becomes tough for me to swallow.
Now, back on topic. If you are putting a sincere amount of effort into mastering seduction techniques, you are basically improving yourself in a way that would allow you to satisfy your sexual desires in the fastest and most effective way.
Therefore, if it takes 1 year of focus and effort to accomplish this goal, than yes, it would seem that for that one year, you are focusing simply on the Dionysian path; however, upon further examination, you are learning something that will pay off in the long run by allowing you to satisfy a very powerful need (i.e. getting sex) with minimal time investment. Therefore, under those circumstances, you are actually liberating yourself of a tremendous amount of time wasted in trial and error and you are more capable of succeeding in other ventures.
For example, by mastering this area of your life (Seduction), you'll be able to focus on tons of other stuff that are on the "Apollo" path. If you're capable of quickly seducing women via unusual techniques, than you'll have a lot more time for building your career, studying, working out, doing all the things that would bring your life deeper meaning.
However, if you are ignorant of these seduction techniques, than you'll end up focusing too much time on playing the "numbers" game, nexting women, treating all women the same, etc. You'll be dating tons of different women (because you'll still be a DJ) but you'll be wasting so much time weeding them out.
What I noticed from my own LTR experience as well as from those I observe at work, is that being in an LTR is akin to being on the Dionysian path.
I mean, you've got to focus a tremendous amount of time and energy to make the LTR successful. You've got to compromise, its give and take. When I am in an LTR, I hardly have time to work out given the long hours my work demands of me coupled with seeing my girlfriend, I eat out and gain weight, I get such regular sex that I don't even feel like I have to continue to hone my seduction skills anymore (hence when people get out of an LTR and need advice from the other DJs on how to move on with life, the most common adive is "go to the gym, workout, get some hobbies, do all the things you couldn't do while in an LTR"). Basically, being in an LTR puts me smack in the middle of the Dionysian path.
All the time wasted going to dinner, going to movies, hanging out, clubbing, etc, these are all "pleasures" that do not lead one down the Apollo path.
Now you may argue that people like Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson were in LTRs and were down the Apollo path; however, I counter that by saying that those times were different. Women back then knew that their role was simply "relief for the warrior", whereas now, every woman thinks she is a warrior as well.
Show me some famous guys these days who are down the Apollo path who have also remained in successful LTRs (besides Bill Clinton...LOL). Seriously! They are all divorced.
So when you're in an LTR or marriage, running around juggling two careers, daycare, taking the kids to school, cooking dinner, taking turns doing the dishes with your woman, when do you have time to focus on the Apollo path? You don't! You're life has become a routine designed to get pleasure, television, sex, food, alcohol, etc). No one actually set out on the path described above deliberately. No one says: "by the age of 40 I want to be 40 lbs overweight, I want some middle management job, I want a bunch of bratty kids, a fat nagging wife, and I want to watch 4 hours of TV every night, etc). It just happens once you get into an LTR and get comfortable. Give and take compromises where you end up giving your ambition and dreams so that you could take some pleasures (kids, sex, "love").
Two of my colleagues at work (both in their forties) have recounted to me how their wives have told them on numerous occasions: "Either you stop working so much overtime and start contributing to household duties and spending more time with your family, or I'm leaving you". Guess what both did? And their careers have been stagnating ever since.
The fact is that the only way to be on the Apollo path is to focus on your passions and keep women as "relief". And you can't have an LTR when you view a woman as simply relief. Therefore, it makes it crucial that the Warrior on the Apollo path master any seduction techniques, no matter how unusual, in order to quickly and effectively transform a woman from stranger to sexual relief. That way, once that problem is solved (i.e. how to quickly get sex), then the Warrior can go out and conquer his other more lofty goals.
I look forward to your thoughts.
Cheers,
Cesare Cardinali
[This message has been edited by Cesare Cardinali (edited 11-20-2002).]
