I think Pook got it wrong: LTR=Dionysian Path, STR=Apollo Path

Cesare Cardinali

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#1
Gentlemen,

I am aware that I'll probably get flamed to death for this post; nevertheless, I'm always up for crossing swords with anyone in the name of meaningful discussion. Therefore, let us do battle....

First, let me say that I have a tremendous amount of respect for Pook's posts, however, I disagree with the trend in his recent posts, and on this forum, of categorizing men who are interested and focused on Seduction, as "Unusual" and somehow not living up to their full potential.

Now, from my understanding of what Pook has written on this subject, the path of Dionysis is the path of drunken pleasure, pleasure in food, wine, and women. In effect, it is decadent pleasure. Surrending to your basic animalistic desires; which will eventually consume and ruin you. Wheareas the path of Apollo is much more honorable as it focuses on self improvement, contribution to the world, and living life to its fullest potential. So far I agree that the path of Apollo seems to be the ideal state that we as DJs should strive for.

However, I disagree with the idea that putting sincere and vigorous focus and effort on the pursuit of women for seduction purposes (i.e. to satisfy our animalistic desires) is an indication that a man is going down the Dionysian path.

Pook affirms that if you focus on Seduction, you'll get sucked into the Dionysian path and that once you're too far down, you can no longer emerge and turn your life around.

The reason I have a hard time with this is that Pook, by his own admission, is well versed in Seduction techniques. He claims to not use them anymore, however, this is impossible.

Can someone with a PhD claim that he doesn't use what he learned anymore and instead will use his knowledge only up until the Graduate Level or High School level? Of course not. It has become second nature and it is a part of you that you cannot turn off like a light switch. It is, as SexPDX put it, a part of your subconscious database of experience

Therefore, although Pook's advice in the matter is well meaning, coming from an expert in Seduction techniques, it becomes tough for me to swallow.

Now, back on topic. If you are putting a sincere amount of effort into mastering seduction techniques, you are basically improving yourself in a way that would allow you to satisfy your sexual desires in the fastest and most effective way.

Therefore, if it takes 1 year of focus and effort to accomplish this goal, than yes, it would seem that for that one year, you are focusing simply on the Dionysian path; however, upon further examination, you are learning something that will pay off in the long run by allowing you to satisfy a very powerful need (i.e. getting sex) with minimal time investment. Therefore, under those circumstances, you are actually liberating yourself of a tremendous amount of time wasted in trial and error and you are more capable of succeeding in other ventures.

For example, by mastering this area of your life (Seduction), you'll be able to focus on tons of other stuff that are on the "Apollo" path. If you're capable of quickly seducing women via unusual techniques, than you'll have a lot more time for building your career, studying, working out, doing all the things that would bring your life deeper meaning.

However, if you are ignorant of these seduction techniques, than you'll end up focusing too much time on playing the "numbers" game, nexting women, treating all women the same, etc. You'll be dating tons of different women (because you'll still be a DJ) but you'll be wasting so much time weeding them out.

What I noticed from my own LTR experience as well as from those I observe at work, is that being in an LTR is akin to being on the Dionysian path.

I mean, you've got to focus a tremendous amount of time and energy to make the LTR successful. You've got to compromise, its give and take. When I am in an LTR, I hardly have time to work out given the long hours my work demands of me coupled with seeing my girlfriend, I eat out and gain weight, I get such regular sex that I don't even feel like I have to continue to hone my seduction skills anymore (hence when people get out of an LTR and need advice from the other DJs on how to move on with life, the most common adive is "go to the gym, workout, get some hobbies, do all the things you couldn't do while in an LTR"). Basically, being in an LTR puts me smack in the middle of the Dionysian path.

All the time wasted going to dinner, going to movies, hanging out, clubbing, etc, these are all "pleasures" that do not lead one down the Apollo path.

Now you may argue that people like Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson were in LTRs and were down the Apollo path; however, I counter that by saying that those times were different. Women back then knew that their role was simply "relief for the warrior", whereas now, every woman thinks she is a warrior as well.

Show me some famous guys these days who are down the Apollo path who have also remained in successful LTRs (besides Bill Clinton...LOL). Seriously! They are all divorced.

So when you're in an LTR or marriage, running around juggling two careers, daycare, taking the kids to school, cooking dinner, taking turns doing the dishes with your woman, when do you have time to focus on the Apollo path? You don't! You're life has become a routine designed to get pleasure, television, sex, food, alcohol, etc). No one actually set out on the path described above deliberately. No one says: "by the age of 40 I want to be 40 lbs overweight, I want some middle management job, I want a bunch of bratty kids, a fat nagging wife, and I want to watch 4 hours of TV every night, etc). It just happens once you get into an LTR and get comfortable. Give and take compromises where you end up giving your ambition and dreams so that you could take some pleasures (kids, sex, "love").

Two of my colleagues at work (both in their forties) have recounted to me how their wives have told them on numerous occasions: "Either you stop working so much overtime and start contributing to household duties and spending more time with your family, or I'm leaving you". Guess what both did? And their careers have been stagnating ever since.

The fact is that the only way to be on the Apollo path is to focus on your passions and keep women as "relief". And you can't have an LTR when you view a woman as simply relief. Therefore, it makes it crucial that the Warrior on the Apollo path master any seduction techniques, no matter how unusual, in order to quickly and effectively transform a woman from stranger to sexual relief. That way, once that problem is solved (i.e. how to quickly get sex), then the Warrior can go out and conquer his other more lofty goals.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Cheers,

Cesare Cardinali



[This message has been edited by Cesare Cardinali (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

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VeryBadGirl

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#2
Cesare - It seems that you have been in LTRss with the wrong people or that you have allowed your LTRs to become what you think society deems they "should be" or the what the woman you with thinks they should be.

But, what you have stated above about LTRs are only true if you are that type of person and/or you let them become that.

"I mean, you've got to focus a tremendous amount of time and energy to make the LTR successful. You've got to compromise, its give and take. When I am in an LTR, I hardly have time to work out given the long hours my work demands of me coupled with seeing my girlfriend, I eat out and gain weight, I get such regular sex that I don't even feel like I have to continue to hone my seduction skills anymore (hence when people get out of an LTR and need advice from the other DJs on how to move on with life, the most common adive is "go to the gym, workout, get some hobbies, do all the things you couldn't do while in an LTR"). Basically, being in an LTR puts me smack in the middle of the Dionysian path."

Yes, LTRs require effort, but, if you are in a great LTR with a great person, that effort is enjoyable. You have to keep things fun in relationships, so you should be doing a varity of things together - going to museums, reading a book together and discussing it, travelling, going out with friends, etc.

And, you should be doing things apart as well - because these things enhance your relationship too. If one partner is taking a class and the other picks up a new interesting hobby, that creates more things to discuss when together. If you both work hard at a job you love, that makes both of you more interesting in general.

As far as going to the gym, I've always thought that the "time" excuse was BS, and I still do. I've been in a serious relationship for 2 years and still have time to go to the gym at leat 4 times a week. Most often my BF and I go together.

And yes, of course, there is always the mudane of life - dishes, laundry, etc, but those things exist whether or not you are single or in a LTR.

But personally, I think this whole "path" idea is BS in a way. If you strive the be the best you can be and do what makes you happy, who cares what other people think?
 

Ivan Drago

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#3
I know you can't wait to start a heated debate with Pook, but I might as well donate my 2 cents until then. I also hold a lot of respect for him but disagree on a similar issue from a similar post.

Pook says that life spent only chasing women is not worth living. I fail to see why people who are only good in chasing women should not spend their whole life chasing them.

Different people have different talents. I consider seducing a woman a talent, just like singing, dancing, drawing, sculpting, etc. If seduction seems to be your most favorite and sucessfull activity, why not dedicate your life to it?

Are those who master seduction any different from those who master art, philosphy or music? I think in the grand scheme of things they are equally worthy. Whether you give pleasure to women with your body or men with your writing, in the end why is one more important than the other?

So whatever your talent is, embrace it and live your life to the fullest because the worst thing in life is wasted talent.
 

RDtoo

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#4
The way I look at is that when you dont have a woman, the most important thing in the world is getting a woman. Some guys come here because they have been burned by a female and they want to know what they can do to get a female. After a couple of weeks here, they no longer want one female, they want them all. Nothing wrong with that, but I think I see the danger of going down the seduction path. A few years ago there was a book called "the Casanova Complex" that was a recovery book for Casanovas (believe it or not). It seems that there were problems with this type of personna. One of the things that stood out to me was the statement that Casanovas could get women, but they didnt break too many hearts as they would get bored and move on to the next woman. They had little investment in a relationship and thus, were not really the "heartbreaker" that they imagined themselves.

In coming here, I decided early on that SS was not the route that I wanted to take. I wanted long term solutions to what it was in me, that had failed with women. It seemed to me that a guy fooling around with SS on a girl, could be blown out of the water if a real man showed up. Admittedly, my eventual goal is a LTR, but have to say it is a blast getting attention from women that I didnt get before I came here. Nonetheless, I dont want to carve out a life as a seducer. What if Einstein spent his whole life chasing women instead of coming up with his theories? What if guys who could possibly find cures for cancer instead devoted their time to becoming womanizers instead? There have been diseases wiped out because some brave man spent his time looking for a cure instead of spending his time at the local nightclub trying to get laid. If youre goal is to be a seducer, then you may well succeed, but that is all that you will ever be. Guys that set their sights higher, get the girl and make their marks on the world to boot. I dont know if that is what Pook meant, but that is what it is saying to me.
 

xblitz44x

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#5
Drago,

Well put. I agree with you. This game is more of a hobby. It is like football is for me. I learn the game, practice it, sharpen skills, and play. I find great joy in playing this game. The hunt is a wonderful feeling. It has nothing to do with NEEDING to be with somebody. It has to do with enjoying a game.

RDtoo wrote:
"If youre goal is to be a seducer, then you may well succeed, but that is all that you will ever be."

People never say..."He's just a painter. If he used the time he spent painting on find a cure for cancer...yada yada" So what is the difference between seduction and painting? It is an art in my mind. People don't say "You'll be a successful painter, but that's all you will ever be." Because if a person truely LOVES painting, then they will be satisfied being successfull at it. Everybody else may see it as "just a painter" however in his mind it is something that he loves with his heart. Just like seduction. I have a passion for it. If all I'll be is a great seductionist then that is fine, because I'll be great at something I truely love. I am going to enjoy the time I have on this earth doing things and become great at the things that *I* love, not what you, or Pook, or anybody else thinks is important.

-Blitz
 

RDtoo

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#6
xBlitz, not everyone is cut out to make medical breakthroughs, or even to even paint masterpieces. That is a given. However, the possibilites and challenges of discovering a cure or bettering your craft are endless, where seduction is the same old thing over and over. You can get better at it, but the end results are the same. They are great results, and I think that a young man should chase women, but to make it a lifelong goal is sad. I see the older DJs who have destroyed the lives of their families because they were addicted to the "hunt". The thing here is to aim as high as you can. Succeed with women and cure cancer too! Wouldnt that be a great epitaph?
 

Jake Steed

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#7
What if Einstein spent his whole life chasing women instead of coming up with his theories?

As the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki what they would have preferred and I think they'd have told you they wished Einstein had chased women. Lol.


If youre goal is to be a seducer, then you may well succeed, but that is all that you will ever be.

Don't be a blockhead. If a person is brilliant, they are brilliant. How many truly brilliant people out there who were destined for greatness didn't become so because of women? IF they didn't, then that is because of a CHARACTER WEAKNESS, thus completely negating their brilliance in the first place. If it's not going to be women, then it will be something else, like heroin.

The whole Apollo Path VS. Dionysis Path argument is totally subjective. Choosing to seduce and **** women doesn't mean you are automatically a go nowhere loser. This is often an attitude AFC's take on when they can't get laid and are bitter towards men and women who can. I'm not saying Pook is one of these guys, but you can't deny this attitude is prevalent among bitter 27 yr old virgins--that pursuing women is BELOW them (when in fact they would give their right arm for a gf). That's just like a poor person saying "Money aint everything."

Here are some examples for you. I have a co-worker and friend who is one of the best natural seductionists I've ever met. He has fvcked more women than any of the guys here could dream of. Yes, he parties, and yes he seduces.

He just so happens to be the most brilliant, accomplished person of his position in the company. So how about your theory that seduction "swallows" you up? Don't be rediculous. LIFE is about balance.

I'll take my example a bit further. I actually showed him this website, and you know what he did? He laughed his ass off. He couldn't understand how guys like the guys here could devote so much time and energy into discussing women. He doesn't even THINK about what he does. He just does. So where does that leave YOU? This guy is building an amazing career AND fvcking tons and tons of hot ass women--while you and I are here discussing the fvcking path of Apollo VS the path of Dionysis and some guy named Pook who has risen to godlike status on some little known message board. So just WHO's on the Apollo path here?

Jake
 

ESPN

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#8
pook don t use ss becuz it makes he lose his self-respect, he does patterns and it brings him down, the apolus and dionisia is just purpurine

[This message has been edited by ESPN (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

WildThang

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#9
Originally posted by Jake Steed:
What if Einstein spent his whole life chasing women instead of coming up with his theories?

As the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki what they would have preferred and I think they'd have told you they wished Einstein had chased women. Lol.


Eistein had an... interesting sex life. So did a bunch of other top scientists.

Top musicians? Hell, not known for their devotion to family life.

Politicians? You have got to be shytting me. Study their lives. Powerful people do *not* do celibacy.

Artists? Libido's bytches. Writers? The same. (Okay - most writers. Some end up total wusses, so it's not a guarantee. But a lot aren't.)

So, people - get this.

Pook is talking crap.

Pook is talking crap because Pook is talking about his own insecurities. Women have conquered him in the past, and he's scared they'll conquer him in the future. And Pook is too much of a wuss to deal with this, and writes all these long posts on here instead.

The reality is that no truly powerful man who really mastered women ever suffered for it. That's The Verdict of History. Go read about the sex lives of the famous, and you'll see what I mean.

Now... a lot of not-so powerful men who never did master women got their asses kicked. If you're not-so-powerful, it's maybe wise to be aware of that.

But the *real* man's approach is total mastery - not evasion. If you don't have the balls for total mastery - sure, stay out the game. Become a philosopher instead. Tell yourself women are leeches and a distraction from your grand plan to do whatever it is.

*You* may believe yourself. Me, I don't buy it. I don't see why anyone should. <shrug>

[This message has been edited by WildThang (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

VeryBadGirl

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#10
So to be a *real* man, you have to be a master seducer?

To be a *real* anything, all you have to do is be what you want to be, be happy and not let anyone else tell you what to be.

If a man is lucky enough to find a great woman early in life and is happy with her for the rest of his life, he is no less of a man than a master seductionist.
 

SexPDX

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#11
I have been on a break from any "heavy" involvement here and my views on what is being discussed have been sufficiently in the past.

However, I must chime to say this is a great post, Cesare. And the other guys have said great stuff in this thread as well.

I wanted to respond to one thing:

WildThang wrote:
The reality is that no truly powerful man who really mastered women ever suffered for it. That's The Verdict of History. Go read about the sex lives of the famous, and you'll see what I mean.


Bingo. In fact if you look at some of the guys Pook and others would consider "real men", who starved their lust in the name of greater good or to go lead armies to glory on the battlefield or some other grandiose jerk off thing like that, those were the chumps who women played out of their socks! Cleopatra made a fool out of Cesar. Joshephine made an absolute chump out Napoleon. What the fvck good is it to be one of the guys who came the closest to unifying Europe under one government when some Carribean chick can pull your strings and make a fool out of you? The "devouring nature of women" Pook keeps talking about is something only the guys Pook thinks are "real men" get devoured by, not the guys who know how to flip the game on the chicks.

------------------
"Dare to aim high." ~ DeepBlue

"Embrace the unknown." ~ Mystery

"Every human being has so much to offer, it's whether they are willing to give it that makes or breaks their relationship with me." ~ Gunwitch

"All you can do is make sure that YOUR game is tight and your skills are intact. Be prepared for anything and play YOUR game at all times, right down the line." ~ MrSex4uNYC

"Capture and lead her imagination and she will not resist you." ~ Ross Jeffries

[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

Gipper

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#12
Originally posted by Jake Steed:
What if Einstein spent his whole life chasing women instead of coming up with his theories?

As the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki what they would have preferred and I think they'd have told you they wished Einstein had chased women. Lol.


If youre goal is to be a seducer, then you may well succeed, but that is all that you will ever be.

Don't be a blockhead. If a person is brilliant, they are brilliant. How many truly brilliant people out there who were destined for greatness didn't become so because of women? IF they didn't, then that is because of a CHARACTER WEAKNESS, thus completely negating their brilliance in the first place. If it's not going to be women, then it will be something else, like heroin.

The whole Apollo Path VS. Dionysis Path argument is totally subjective. Choosing to seduce and **** women doesn't mean you are automatically a go nowhere loser. This is often an attitude AFC's take on when they can't get laid and are bitter towards men and women who can. I'm not saying Pook is one of these guys, but you can't deny this attitude is prevalent among bitter 27 yr old virgins--that pursuing women is BELOW them (when in fact they would give their right arm for a gf). That's just like a poor person saying "Money aint everything."

Here are some examples for you. I have a co-worker and friend who is one of the best natural seductionists I've ever met. He has fvcked more women than any of the guys here could dream of. Yes, he parties, and yes he seduces.

He just so happens to be the most brilliant, accomplished person of his position in the company. So how about your theory that seduction "swallows" you up? Don't be rediculous. LIFE is about balance.

I'll take my example a bit further. I actually showed him this website, and you know what he did? He laughed his ass off. He couldn't understand how guys like the guys here could devote so much time and energy into discussing women. He doesn't even THINK about what he does. He just does. So where does that leave YOU? This guy is building an amazing career AND fvcking tons and tons of hot ass women--while you and I are here discussing the fvcking path of Apollo VS the path of Dionysis and some guy named Pook who has risen to godlike status on some little known message board. So just WHO's on the Apollo path here?

Jake

I think that sums it up nicely.

Gipper

------------------
"There's nothing wrong with letting the girls know you're money, and that you want to party.
-Trent, from "Swingers"

"Keep your girlfriend away from me,
Just advice I’m giving you for free,
Wanna have every thing I see,
So keep your girlfriend away from me..."
-Local H, from "Here Comes The Zoo"
 

Donjuanpablo

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#13
Seduction is not a science. Picking up is actually quite easy and a lot of people on this site try to make it out as if it is something that is extremely hard to do. It is actually just a natural function, so why would you want to make a life of something that is actually relatively simple?
 

SexPDX

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#14
Originally posted by Donjuanpablo:
Seduction is not a science. Picking up is actually quite easy and a lot of people on this site try to make it out as if it is something that is extremely hard to do. It is actually just a natural function, so why would you want to make a life of something that is actually relatively simple?
Seduction is an art AND a science. Picking up chicks is not that hard, you are right. Getting the women you want on your terms while manging multiple women, your own communication and the way you are percieved by mainstream society (particularly AFC husbands/borefriends who will want to kill you once you get good) is hard stuff. It requires you to be a performer of many kinds. We are not talking about being a guy who gets laid, we are talking about being a truly touched, against the grain person who is on a different wavelength from the rest of society. If all people in society were what I am in the process of becoming, society could not function.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I don't know that society would function all that well if many people were like me at all. HAHAHA!

------------------
"Dare to aim high." ~ DeepBlue

"Embrace the unknown." ~ Mystery

"Every human being has so much to offer, it's whether they are willing to give it that makes or breaks their relationship with me." ~ Gunwitch

"All you can do is make sure that YOUR game is tight and your skills are intact. Be prepared for anything and play YOUR game at all times, right down the line." ~ MrSex4uNYC

"Capture and lead her imagination and she will not resist you." ~ Ross Jeffries

[This message has been edited by SexPDX (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

RDtoo

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#15
Jake you and I are actually in the same ballpark on this one. This guy that you know thinks it is funny that we would study how to get women when it comes natural to him. This is kind of what I wanted to say. Those guys who are out curing cancer, painting masterpieces, etc, ATTRACT women without much effort. They do not have to learn how to seduce, they are magnets. A guy like Ross Jefferies has to learn "tricks" because he will never be a real man, thus he has to find ways of getting them by any means possible. The thing that is never addressed is the quality of women that you want to get with. I would bet that Ross Jefferies has never had a real quality woman. Women are not as dumb as alot of guys here seem to think, and they learn from experience as well as we do. I know a very quality woman who shoots down all seduction attempts. She says the thing that attracts her is the "quality of character" in a man. I do not think that learning SS is building that kind of character.

I think it ridiculous to use Pook as the final authority on everything, but I think it is equally ridiculous to dog him for his views. We all came here one way or another to have better success with women. I think all views should be considered. I heard once that you experience the most growth from those that you disagree with, which I have found to be true several times since I have been here.
 

prosemont

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#16
Excellent post, Cesare, and excellent responses, my brothers.

Here's another angle:

People and relationships are what make life worth living. If you were the only person on earth, you would have no fun whatsoever, I don't give a fvck how interested and good you were at your pursuits.

So, it makes perfect sense to make as one of your pursuits the cultivation and mastery of relationships -- persuading people, in short, seducing them. And, what better fun to take a stab (heheh) at the fairer 50% of the population.

Moreover, the skills used in becoming a DJ or even SS are transferrable to other relationships. For example, NLP began in the business world and in sales and marketing, all to persuade or seduce people. This is a bad thing? Every bit of knowledge gleened in understanding relationships and how to pursuade or bring about change in another person is valuable. Period.

Now, let me defend, also, the spirit or what for me is the spirit of Pook's posts and where he has it right, and that is twofold:

1. When you've gone through seducing women and weeded through them, you still have to be left with something that is intrinsic to you. For YOU, what's your own value? Do you want to simply identify yourself with a seducer or is there something else you'd like to be and, if so, then don't neglect it. If being a seducer is your end-goal, then by all means, improve upon that. If it is your passion, then do it and do it well.

2. Self-improvement will better enable you to seduce higher quality women generally speaking. A toothless hillybilly can be a master seductionist, but he's only going to go so far. He would likely be able to seduce even more and higher quality women if he had other excellent qualities. This is why we work out, and dress well, etc.
 

stockholder

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#17
HAHAHAHA this post just made my day. Seduction has always been more action than philosophy .I agree with Jake and Wildthang.

Brilliant post Cesare!

[This message has been edited by stockholder (edited 11-20-2002).]
 

CyranoDeBergerac

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#18
Some quick thoughts before I head to work (again, grrr) There seems to be a misunderstanding here somewhere...

First off, to Ivan Drago who posted:

Pook says that life spent only chasing women is not worth living. I fail to see why people who are only good in chasing women should not spend their whole life chasing them.

Only good at chasing women? I'll add a little addendum here of catching women, then moving on, which is implied anyway as you can't stalk one quarry while engaged with another... First off, man has an enormous capacity for greatness. We can agree on that, but to relegate some men as only great in one area? Some are, but lets look at them.
Van Gogh, only a painter. Neopolean, only a general. Darwin, only a scientist. In each case, these men were greats at what they did. They were naturals, born to do it! But in each case natural talent could have only taken them so far had they not devoted so much time and energy to their talent. The sad thing was that because they devoted so much talent to their craft, it consummed them to the detriment of whatever other talents they may have possed.



Different people have different talents. I consider seducing a woman a talent, just like singing, dancing, drawing, sculpting, etc. If seduction seems to be your most favorite and sucessfull activity, why not dedicate your life to it?


We each begin life with many talents. Those which we choose to nurture can only be so nutured at the expense of others. So when a person devotes themself almost exclusively to the act of finding then bedding a mate, that skill often consumes the efforts which could be used elsewhere. Which raises the question...why is that a bad thing?


Are those who master seduction any different from those who master art, philosphy or music? I think in the grand scheme of things they are equally worthy. Whether you give pleasure to women with your body or men with your writing, in the end why is one more important than the other?


Because seducing a multitude of women invariably adds nothing to the human race, or even the seducer. The argument was made that no matter how you go about it the results are still the same...Once a certain level of success is achieved in this regard (as Pook has) it becomes a glass cieling, no longer an aspiration towards greatness.

If women are so easy, then where's the challenge any more??? You end up using all your free energy chasing that which you already have. In short, you cease to grow, and that which does not grow dies. The further travesty is that, not only does it act as a glass cieling, but as a weed, constricting your abilities elsewhere to the point where those resilient little saplings are choked and wither. That's why we need to pursue other interests while we pursue women, and once a certain point is reached, it's time to move on...

To Cesare I say: You're getting warm, but you're not quite there yet...

We learn seduction so that wanton sexual energy does not distract us along the way to achieving our goals. I'll liken a man on the road of Appollo and a man on the road of Dyonisis to the fable of the tortoise and the hare...

The Hare (one of the more Dionysean creatures out there; moves in leaps and bounds, reproduces like crazy) sprints past the tortoise at first. Wants everything NOW NOW, YESTERDAY! He is consumed in his one energy. He invariably fatigues himself. He NEEDS sleep. So he does, but his sleep is so relieving he has a hard time waking. He only awakens when he realizes the folly of his ways, and by then it is too late.

Many of us attack life like the tortoise. We live fast and loose, and recklessly pursue our destiny, beit our careers or education or whatnot. So much so that we deny ourselves what we need unitl we can no longer deny it. Now a lot of guys on here spent the first two decades or so of their life trying to get things in order, school, job, money, car...so much so that they remained virgins till quite late. Once they succumbed to the natural urgings as the hare did when he slept, it was such a brave new world to them that they changed their priorities. So they become seductionists, reveling in that which they had forgone for so long. But then they begin to need it less and less, until finally they look around and see the tortoise passing them by...they redouble their efforts to achieve success, but the race is already over.

Now look at our friend the tortoise. (slow, but deliberate, surefooted, and steady) The tortoise takes everything as it comes and steadies himself to take the next step. Step by step, all the way to the finish. Men build towers, and that's how towers get built. He forgoes the instant gratification of sleep, and takes measures so that he does not unduely fatigue himself. In the end the balanced, focused, step by step manner of the tortoise wins out, and by forgoing the immediate gratification, he has much more to enjoy later. Is it any wonder tortoises live so much longer than hares?


This having been said, I need to comment on the role of women and the nature of an LTR later, but as I said earlier, I need to be at work...

-CyranoDeBergerac
 

Donjuanpablo

Master Don Juan
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#20
Originally posted by SexPDX:
Seduction is an art AND a science. Picking up chicks is not that hard, you are right. Getting the women you want on your terms while manging multiple women, your own communication and the way you are percieved by mainstream society (particularly AFC husbands/borefriends who will want to kill you once you get good) is hard stuff. It requires you to be a performer of many kinds. We are not talking about being a guy who gets laid, we are talking about being a truly touched, against the grain person who is on a different wavelength from the rest of society. If all people in society were what I am in the process of becoming, society could not function.

EDIT: Come to think of it, I don't know that society would function all that well if many people were like me at all. HAHAHA!

Haha, ok, so essentially you're saying that it is not the objective (ie getting laid) that is the satisfying part of being a master seducer but the mental state that you would accomplish in the meantime? The social mastery that puts you above the mainstrem of society?

Ok, fair enough, but wouldn't you prefer to use those skills to accomplish something more satisfying and long lasting. If I remember correctly, you yourself said that you'd like to channel some of your skills into acting or something. I think mastery of the mind is something that is extremely important and if done well enough can be used to accomplish anything. So why waste it all on seducing? Surely there are other things in this world that can be accomplished that would leave you more satisfied with your acquired mastery?
 
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