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I need some help with a place I'm at right now

SW15

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from around 2016/17 through 2019 I was experiencing nothing but rejection, flakiness, etc. and eventually gave up for the sake of my mental health.
If you go 2-3 years with nothing but rejection and flakiness, that's going to cause psychological trauma. It's understandable for you to be so traumatized by constant rejection and failed swipe app first dates consisting of "one date, no sex, no second date".

You don't have enough experience. Your data set is warped and you are replaying the minute number of interactions you've had in your head over and over again without forcing yourself out there and putting your ego on the line. The problem is that your ego gets too damaged from rejection when you do put yourself on the line, and that's what needs to be addressed.
Is his data set really warped? Are there few interactions? 2-3 years of interactions would typically produce a sufficient sample size of data.

While you are very athletic, you are also a very intelligent guy. You might "vibe" better with some pretty but brainy/educated* chick, rather than a hot but airhead chick. Maybe dress up a bit more and hit some classy bars/lounges.

*Don't worry about intelligent women being prudes. Many are horny as F and have even more wild fantasies lol.
Interesting suggestion. I like it. @sangheilios is articulate and does express himself well. This could be an option. I was telling him to focus on taller, athletic women. This could work too. Worth a try.


Based upon my observations and personal experiences, I genuinely am starting to believe that there is something wrong with the women in my area.
You'd have a valid case for that. Your area isn't completely a lost cause. There is sufficient population. A lot of people in small towns/rural areas with populations of less than 100,000 would be glad to be in your area.

As for sports....
There are other sports besides Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Track and Field. You could be great at some sort of outdoor volleyball. I'm sure you can find a sand volleyball game somewhere.
 

metalwater

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I have a shaved/buzzed head so I look kind of look like a tanner Caucasian version of Vin Diesel or the actor that played as Imhotep in the Mummy, I'm only tan because I live in a sunny environment. My body type/look is pretty comparable to Jason Momoa's "dad bod" photo at the beach, I like to eat but that's a pretty good example of what I'm built like.
btw; you sound like a younger larger version of myself, like Yul Brynner. Only your taller and stronger like Diesel.
 

sangheilios

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If you go 2-3 years with nothing but rejection and flakiness, that's going to cause psychological trauma. It's understandable for you to be so traumatized by constant rejection and failed swipe app first dates consisting of "one date, no sex, no second date".



Is his data set really warped? Are there few interactions? 2-3 years of interactions would typically produce a sufficient sample size of data.



Interesting suggestion. I like it. @sangheilios is articulate and does express himself well. This could be an option. I was telling him to focus on taller, athletic women. This could work too. Worth a try.




You'd have a valid case for that. Your area isn't completely a lost cause. There is sufficient population. A lot of people in small towns/rural areas with populations of less than 100,000 would be glad to be in your area.



There are other sports besides Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Track and Field. You could be great at some sort of outdoor volleyball. I'm sure you can find a sand volleyball game somewhere.
A while back I had looked into co-ed activities, including some stuff on meetup, and it was kind of an awkward collection of individuals. I genuinely believe that gym approaches could work really well in my favor. However, given the handful of experiences I have had it would tell me that this is NOT a good idea. I was running into a lot of attention *****s, flakes, etc. from this environment and because of these variables it's made me reluctant to approach. I don't know if that's reason enough to totally write off approaching in this environment though.

I'm not at all into the nightlife scene so that's not even something I'd consider. Outside of this I genuinely can't think of an environment I'd do well with that would give me access to a multitude of women that are actually single AND interested in me. OLD in my area is trash and I'd rather not go there at all.
 

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btw; you sound like a younger larger version of myself, like Yul Brynner. Only your taller and stronger like Diesel.
Vin Diesel is pretty average height from what I've seen but has a good build to him. I used Jason Momoa as an example because he is a modern celebrity and if you look up his "dad bod at the beach" photos on google that's a pretty good comparison.
 

dk1990S111

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Man 100% sums up my life as well. I saw an escort probably 9 months ago while I was back in LA for a quick business trip. Everything you said applies to my experience as well.

Girls where I’m at are either fat, tatted up, single mom, or all of those lol or taken. Rarely find any good options, they are off the market in a snap if they are. Last month I paid for Tinder gold and man the women in other parts of the world are so much friendlier and wayyyyy hotter.
 

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I'm not at all into the nightlife scene so that's not even something I'd consider. Outside of this I genuinely can't think of an environment I'd do well with that would give me access to a multitude of women that are actually single AND interested in me. OLD in my area is trash and I'd rather not go there at all.
part of it is to expand the overall influence and connections. in any area, many virtual environments exist. I mean that when you are part of some social circle it seems like those people are everyplace and you know them. while it's only a dozen or perhaps a few hundred ppl it seems like it's many as you bump into them from time to time. the rest of the ppl we don't pay much attention to unless they are peacocking or a very hot woman that is dressed to kill.

by associating with other ppl and men that are at your level and even above you will set yourself up to meet and be introduced to women that also are at your level. it's likely that lots of sluts are afraid of you because you appear to dramatically outclass them. together with that, you may not be a ruthless playa that is so greedy and selfish, douche game doesn't work for you as its not you. you could game those sluts but that behavior based on your self-description is not built into you.

how you describe yourself if being authentic is as a tier-one man. I have no reason to not believe it. you will get that association from one of the following places and perhaps others.

- church
- service clubs (like lions.. and maybe rotary, not sure it that one is right for you).
- political organizations

don't try to find women, try to find connections with others like yourself. within those environments, women will find you. they are in those places because they like those types of upper-tier men. the women looking for fck boys are often going to the club but you will find some of them hanging with the tier one men looking for scraps.

the other choice is to become ruthless. many men find success in that way. that's a self conversation that you have with yourself and decide if that's what you want to become. it works but it depends on how strong is your moral core. It's really a self-choice, but by dropping the moral core you can take more of everything. being ruthless and having a strong moral core will cause inner pain.
 

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A while back I had looked into co-ed activities, including some stuff on meetup, and it was kind of an awkward collection of individuals.
Meetup.com events are usually complete shiit. An awkward collection of individuals is a good way to describe most Meetup events. Most single men benefit from avoiding Meetup events.

Other co-ed activities is too vague for me to provide any insight. I posted a thread about co-ed sports leagues on here in September which received 0 responses. That to me was quite telling.


I would call co-ed sports leagues a form of social circle game, though it is weak social circle game. Better social circle game is meeting at a private residence party through mutual acquaintances or any other thing where mutual friends/acquaintances facilitate an introduction. In most co-ed sports leagues, I would call it "warm approaching". As a man you're going to need to walk up to a strange woman and start a conversation, which is an element of cold approaching. It's a hybrid of the cold approach and pure social circle. Below is something I've written about co-ed sports leagues in the past based on my own experiences.

In the 2000s/2010s, co-ed sports leagues were a common thing for 20s/30s people to do. Kickball had a meteoric surge in popularity around the late 2000s/early 2010s. Almost all co-ed team sports have young adults. A good percentage of the participating population in co-ed sports is doing it because they are single and looking to date. However, there are some established couples/established teams who do things. It can be a bit cliquey and social circle to do. You're generally going to have a better experience in a sports league if you establish your own team from your existing circle of friends rather than sign up as a free agent to join teams that are 1-2 players short of a full team or a random team comprised of all free agents. This is even more true when the sport requires actual skill, like volleyball or soccer. Kickball is complete bullshiit and doesn't require actual skill. Regardless of the sport, most of the socializing and finding romance occurs after the end of the game at some sponsor bar. The games are filler for the actual picking up.

I recommend co-ed sports leagues if you're passionate about the sport. If you're doing it just for the dating, you're likely to be sorely disappointed. It's effectiveness is questionable and it's definitely not efficient. For efficiency's sake, you're likely better off going to fitness classes and doing approaches before or after classes, especially if you're joining leagues as a free agent and don't have social ties within the league. You're more likely to build social ties if you do the leagues season after season. Co-ed sports leagues are difficult to swoop into and get dates from random approaching after games.

I genuinely believe that gym approaches could work really well in my favor. However, given the handful of experiences I have had it would tell me that this is NOT a good idea. I was running into a lot of attention *****s, flakes, etc. from this environment and because of these variables it's made me reluctant to approach. I don't know if that's reason enough to totally write off approaching in this environment though.
They could. The general gym floor is a difficult place to game. You have an advantage there being 6'4" and having big muscles. The general gym floor is more men than women. The women tend to be wearing earbuds/headphones and are less receptive to being approached.

I've never heard you mention doing fitness classes. At fitness classes, you avoid the headphones/earbuds problem. The women are more receptive to approaches than on the general gym ratio and fitness classes regardless of the format give you a ratio advantage since there are more women than men there. Despite the fact that fitness classes offer good ratios, they are not as advantageous as they might seem. You only have a 5 minute window before and after classes to do approaches. Some women aren't that social before and after classes. My hypothesis about those women is that they are already in relationships in most cases.

You could explore joining a different gym if you think you'd meet better quality women at a different gym than the one you could currently go to. Another option would be to use ClassPass to supplement your primary gym and make appearances at various places and hit on a variety of women that way.

You also have a great option available in hiking there. In the more temperate months, you can go out to some hiking trails and do pickup either at the bottom of the trails by lounging around for 30-60 minutes or actually doing hikes on trails where younger women are known to go. In the hotter months, you could do that same thing at sunrise before it gets hot.

OLD in my area is trash and I'd rather not go there at all.
You're wise to avoid the swipe apps and websites. You don't need to use them at all.

I'm not at all into the nightlife scene so that's not even something I'd consider. Outside of this I genuinely can't think of an environment I'd do well with that would give me access to a multitude of women that are actually single AND interested in me.
It's possible to enact a strategy where you don't use regular nights out at bars to meet women. It's more difficult to pull off though. If you do a few of the things I've suggested earlier, then there's a good chance you can avoid the bar scene and still have prospects.
 

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Unlikely, 2 years is like 10 cold approaches and 10 dates for most men. It's also obvious that he takes a handful of limited experiences and puts great importance on them, compared with experienced people that can hardly remember enough to discuss. Do you think he should jump to conclusions after 2 years of a handful of approaches and zero relationships?
Before 3-4 years ago, a decent looking man aged 25-35 could obtain a 5 first dates per month from swipe apps. These dates would mainly be garbage dates of the "one date, no sex, no second date" type variety. It would take maybe 3-6 months of moderately dedicated cold approaching to get as many first dates as a guy could get from swiping and texting. The hope would be that the in-person arranged first dates would be of higher quality than the swipe app generated ones. In more recent times with swipe apps, I'm hearing that there aren't enough matches to get 5 first dates per month.

10 cold approaches is an insufficient sample size. 100 cold approaches is a more meaningful sample size, but I'd rather see 150-300 strongly targeted cold approaches before drawing conclusions from the sample size. With cold approach, you're going to burn through a lot of sample to get dates. Most women on walking/hiking paths, in the mall, or in the grocery store will be oblivious to you and probably won't even be approached. Some men will approach anything without any IOIs/approach invitations and have worse outcomes. Millennial women have been known to be worse at signaling men for approaches than previous generations so that forces a lot of IOI-less approaches. I've always preferred to have some sort of IOI or signal before making the approach because it leads to better quality approaches.

10-20 consecutive harsh beatdowns from cold approaches can be psychologically traumatic so I can't discount some of what @sangheilios experienced.
 

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Before 3-4 years ago, a decent looking man aged 25-35 could obtain a 5 first dates per month from swipe apps. These dates would mainly be garbage dates of the "one date, no sex, no second date" type variety. It would take maybe 3-6 months of moderately dedicated cold approaching to get as many first dates as a guy could get from swiping and texting. The hope would be that the in-person arranged first dates would be of higher quality than the swipe app generated ones. In more recent times with swipe apps, I'm hearing that there aren't enough matches to get 5 first dates per month.

10 cold approaches is an insufficient sample size. 100 cold approaches is a more meaningful sample size, but I'd rather see 150-300 strongly targeted cold approaches before drawing conclusions from the sample size. With cold approach, you're going to burn through a lot of sample to get dates. Most women on walking/hiking paths, in the mall, or in the grocery store will be oblivious to you and probably won't even be approached. Some men will approach anything without any IOIs/approach invitations and have worse outcomes. Millennial women have been known to be worse at signaling men for approaches than previous generations so that forces a lot of IOI-less approaches. I've always preferred to have some sort of IOI or signal before making the approach because it leads to better quality approaches.

10-20 consecutive harsh beatdowns from cold approaches can be psychologically traumatic so I can't discount some of what @sangheilios experienced.
This has been mentioned on here a million times, but OLD is trash for the vast majority of men. I've had 2 dates with "matches" off of swipe apps and they were both overweight women, though they didn't look as bad in the photos they had on there. I personally know someone who used to brag about all of these matches and these dates with hot women off of there. He'd show me screenshots of his "matches" and the hot girls were clearly bots lol. I do know that he was going out with women and I've met several of them and I genuinely wasn't really that impressed and they were not something I'd even approach, and this is coming from someone quite a bit older than they were.

As for your comment about women interacting with men in person, I've not only experienced their awkwardness but I've witnessed quite a few interactions. A few weeks ago I was at the gym and this red haired guy, not a full blown ginger, that was around 6'2" and fit approached this woman that was there that I honestly saw as around his league. He wasn't in her face and was relatively normal and was trying to converse with her and she looked so confused and alarmed at the interaction. He wasn't even asking her any weird questions and it was like she was incapable of having a normal interaction with this man. After a bit of time he left and she made this weird face as if he was a freak for even starting a conversation with her, it was honestly kind of comical to see how clueless and socially inept she was.

I've had some interactions similar to this with women that I'm not even hitting on, which I've already discussed on this thread.
 

sangheilios

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part of it is to expand the overall influence and connections. in any area, many virtual environments exist. I mean that when you are part of some social circle it seems like those people are everyplace and you know them. while it's only a dozen or perhaps a few hundred ppl it seems like it's many as you bump into them from time to time. the rest of the ppl we don't pay much attention to unless they are peacocking or a very hot woman that is dressed to kill.

by associating with other ppl and men that are at your level and even above you will set yourself up to meet and be introduced to women that also are at your level. it's likely that lots of sluts are afraid of you because you appear to dramatically outclass them. together with that, you may not be a ruthless playa that is so greedy and selfish, douche game doesn't work for you as its not you. you could game those sluts but that behavior based on your self-description is not built into you.

how you describe yourself if being authentic is as a tier-one man. I have no reason to not believe it. you will get that association from one of the following places and perhaps others.

- church
- service clubs (like lions.. and maybe rotary, not sure it that one is right for you).
- political organizations

don't try to find women, try to find connections with others like yourself. within those environments, women will find you. they are in those places because they like those types of upper-tier men. the women looking for fck boys are often going to the club but you will find some of them hanging with the tier one men looking for scraps.

the other choice is to become ruthless. many men find success in that way. that's a self conversation that you have with yourself and decide if that's what you want to become. it works but it depends on how strong is your moral core. It's really a self-choice, but by dropping the moral core you can take more of everything. being ruthless and having a strong moral core will cause inner pain.
Ironically, the social scene in my area is heavily dominated by the fake, douchebag type of vibe.....and I'm referring to men around my age and not those a decade younger. What I've seen a lot is flashing money around like there is no tomorrow, it's almost like an attempt to impress people that are just as fake as you are. The crazy thing is none of these guys actually have money lol, it's entirely a false image that they have created and in order to be a part of the social scene this is what it takes to fit in. These are men who I know who they are but not really all that personal with, I've completely avoided interacting with them on any level.

I'm approaching millionaire status and no one would ever guess I have this kind of wealth, which is honestly something that I like. I've had a few people in the recent past find this out, it was mostly my own fault for disclosing certain things about me, and they started becoming overly friendly with me in order to benefit from it. People come out of the woodwork it seems and I'd get those asking for loans or bringing up business ideas with me, etc. @Scars Had posted on a thread of mine a while ago and my biggest fear/problem is I can't really be sure if other men and women are actually interested in me as a person or just view me as a way to get ahead.

As for being ruthless, I work really hard and go for what I want but I'd be ashamed of myself to put on an act and try to take advantage of people just for things like money or sex, etc.
 

SW15

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OLD is trash for the vast majority of men.
Yes, it is. You don't need to use it.

A few weeks ago I was at the gym and this red haired guy, not a full blown ginger, that was around 6'2" and fit approached this woman that was there that I honestly saw as around his league. He wasn't in her face and was relatively normal and was trying to converse with her and she looked so confused and alarmed at the interaction. He wasn't even asking her any weird questions and it was like she was incapable of having a normal interaction with this man. After a bit of time he left and she made this weird face as if he was a freak for even starting a conversation with her, it was honestly kind of comical to see how clueless and socially inept she was.
Shiit, that can happen in any city. I've had women I've approached in the grocery store not be able to process the event of being approached by a man in a grocery store. My closest friend's wife is a bit socially inept too. She once claimed that she'd never been approached in a grocery store. I found that difficult to believe and even if she were approached, she would likely be one of those women who couldn't mentally process the concept of being approached in a grocery store.
 

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It's not about discounting the trauma, it's about the irrelevance of such small numbers. I am pointing out that the susceptibility to trauma is the problem.

The answer to the rest is, not if your standards are decent. I never got 5 per month and I know for a fact sang didn't either.
I had months on online dating where I got 5 first dates in a month and they were all "one date, no sex, no second date" type dates. Most women were in the 5-7 range there. Online dating has always been a haven for the HB 5-7 women to get Instagram butt selfie model type attention. Events like that caused me to re-evaluate which methods I was using to arrange dates.
 
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DonJuanjr

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I'm inclined to agree with laraider. The emotional impact of rejection becomes numbed if one does it enough in a given time frame. I think if one goes too long without approaching, one needs to power through it again. Though I don't think it's nearly as impactful as the first x amount of times.
 

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I'm inclined to agree with laraider. The emotional impact of rejection becomes numbed if one does it enough in a given time frame. I think if one goes too long without approaching, one needs to power through it again. Though I don't think it's nearly as impactful as the first x amount of times.



It's not about discounting the trauma, it's about the irrelevance of such small numbers. I am pointing out that the susceptibility to trauma is the problem.

The answer to the rest is, not if your standards are decent. I never got 5 per month and I know for a fact sang didn't either.
Honestly, it's been quite a while since I've done an actual approach or asked a woman out, I'm talking over 2 years now. Granted, I've had random interactions with women when I'm out and about but I wasn't flirting, asking them out or clearly approaching them for something along those lines. @LARaiders85 is correct because I'm using examples that were from literally years ago and I'm honestly a totally different person now than I was then. The place I'm at in life, my goals, etc. are all very different compared to then.
 

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Ironically, the social scene in my area is heavily dominated by the fake, douchebag type of vibe.....and I'm referring to men around my age and not those a decade younger. What I've seen a lot is flashing money around like there is no tomorrow, it's almost like an attempt to impress people that are just as fake as you are. The crazy thing is none of these guys actually have money lol, it's entirely a false image that they have created and in order to be a part of the social scene this is what it takes to fit in. These are men who I know who they are but not really all that personal with, I've completely avoided interacting with them on any level.

I'm approaching millionaire status and no one would ever guess I have this kind of wealth, which is honestly something that I like. I've had a few people in the recent past find this out, it was mostly my own fault for disclosing certain things about me, and they started becoming overly friendly with me in order to benefit from it. People come out of the woodwork it seems and I'd get those asking for loans or bringing up business ideas with me, etc. @Scars Had posted on a thread of mine a while ago and my biggest fear/problem is I can't really be sure if other men and women are actually interested in me as a person or just view me as a way to get ahead.

As for being ruthless, I work really hard and go for what I want but I'd be ashamed of myself to put on an act and try to take advantage of people just for things like money or sex, etc.
I wish you were in my area. Stay the course and find ppl like you, they do exist but they are doing good stuff.
 

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I wish you were in my area. Stay the course and find ppl like you, they do exist but they are doing good stuff.
Yeah, I go through periods of loneliness/depression here and there it seems like, which I can see with some of my posts on here. I have a lot of goals I'm actively working towards right now and have a lot going on day to day, which is something that I enjoy, and it's made a great life for me. However, it's come at a cost of having virtually no social life and I think what happens is with some free evening I may have I'm just sitting there kind of bored and start reflecting upon things like this.
 

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Honestly, it's been quite a while since I've done an actual approach or asked a woman out, I'm talking over 2 years now. Granted, I've had random interactions with women when I'm out and about but I wasn't flirting, asking them out or clearly approaching them for something along those lines. @LARaiders85 is correct because I'm using examples that were from literally years ago and I'm honestly a totally different person now than I was then. The place I'm at in life, my goals, etc. are all very different compared to then.
It's my hope for your sake that 2 years was enough time to work through trauma issues stemming from 2016-2019 rejections in the mating marketplace. It's good that you've done some self-improvement since then. Seeing a mental health professional over dating rejection trauma might have been a good idea during the time.

Yeah, I go through periods of loneliness/depression here and there it seems like, which I can see with some of my posts on here. I have a lot of goals I'm actively working towards right now and have a lot going on day to day, which is something that I enjoy, and it's made a great life for me. However, it's come at a cost of having virtually no social life and I think what happens is with some free evening I may have I'm just sitting there kind of bored and start reflecting upon things like this.
Loneliness is growing for both single people and attached people, a trend that started prior to the pandemic. If you're experiencing depression, seeing a mental health professional might be worthwhile.
 
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