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I need help as I keep turning first dates into platonic hangouts, what to do?

Zimbabwe

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So ur saying first date and first meet (this was a dating app), I just immediately sit all intimately close to her on her side of the table? It seems like it would be a bit fast?
Fast? Dude this is a date not a buisness meeting between two colleagues. There is no such thing as "moving too fast", beating around the bush never got any guy past the bush.



Escalating with strategic touching, vibe and eye contact brings even more mystery to it. Let her mind fantasize on its own. If you can just emit a sexual vibe without saying anything overly sexual then I've found this works best.
That's too advanced for OP, who literally just got back into the game. For now he just needs to learn to be more direct and gain more dating experience.
 

Sebastian0001

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Fast? Dude this is a date not a buisness meeting between two colleagues. There is no such thing as "moving too fast", beating around the bush never got any guy past the bush.

That's too advanced for OP, who literally just got back into the game. For now he just needs to learn to be more direct and gain more dating experience.
fair enough, i think you are 100% correct and I appreciate the bluntness. I am far too timid at this point, its a mindset issue. In a way, ist good that its just a mindset issue because a mindset issue can be improved upon
 

Sebastian0001

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I would need to see the woman's body language during the date to tell. You can't make anything to happen with any woman if she isn't open to you. If she isn't open to you (interested at some level) NOTHING you do will make any difference. Trying to create sexual tension with women that are not at least attracted will not work. Having said that, when in doubt make a move, if you don't know how to read women to tell if they are really interested it's the only way to know for sure. But based on what you are telling us, if you'd tried anything with this chick, the date just would have ended sooner. Keep dating, get more experience since you are a little stale, get to the point where you can tell within 15 minutes if you have a shot... at that point just don't mess up by talking about (1) politics (2) religion (3) your kids or her kids (4) problems (5) people you don't like (6) your exes. (7) how much you hate your job.

Be fun.... talk about fun stuff and don't be afraid of sexual innuendo and see what she does with that. Talk about things you like... never about things you don't like. Stay away from negative topics because that makes you come off as someone that is judgmental. If she thinks you are judgmental, then she will NOT open up to you because she will be afraid of being judged. Another thing.... men are supposed to FIX SH1T... b1tching about your life indicates you don't know how to fix things.... it's okay for chicks to b1tch about their lives, not a man. Women don't want men that complain... they want men that take action when they are not happy with where they are in life.

If she goes out with you, she is at least interested. But she won't know if she is really attracted until you are spending time with her. Just because a chick meets you on a date doesn't mean you have a chance to make anything happen. She's just kicking the tires seeing if she gets the tingles... if the tingles aren't there you are pretty much done. You can't make anything happen with any chick if you aren't in the game, all you can do is fvck up opportunities.

There is no such thing as a 'bad' first date. That first date is really just your opportunity to test her attraction for you, that's it. If there is no attraction GREAT... now you know and you won't waste time with her. If there is attraction... well.... at that point you just have to NOT fvck it up. Based on what you posted, I don't think you screwed anything up. If she had been attracted to you, she would have let you know... then you just have to pick up on that and try to make something happen. Don't go into a first date with the idea that you have a shot to make anything happen.

There is no such thing as a 'bad' first date. That first date is really just your opportunity to test her attraction for you, that's it. If there is no attraction GREAT... now you know and you won't waste time with her. If there is attraction... well.... at that point you just have to NOT fvck it up. Based on what you posted, I don't think you screwed anything up. If she had been attracted to you, she would have let you know... then you just have to pick up on that and try to make something happen.
when you say don't talk about work or any negatives or complaints, what if my work is something I very much enjoy? Then is it ok to talk about it a little bit? Or is it more important to try to focus on more fun, light, flirty topics? And what are some examples of how to steer the conversation into that direction? What if I were to ask her something like "do you think there is a difference between spiritual sex and animal sex" or something like that to subtly make her mind connect me and the topic of sex? Or would that be weird?
 

Sebastian0001

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Please, do not do this. It truly comes down to the way in which you ask a question. The goal is not to be unsexual but to be covertly sexual. Use innuendo, and see how she responds to that. If she reacts, she understood it and now her mind is in the gutter.

A few better questions to start escalating would be, "What are your thoughts on hookups?"
While you banter, you could ask in a funny random way, "Do you have a favourite position". (The answer she gives to this will allow you to gauge whether or not she's a virgin or knows what she's doing. Also note, I did not say the word sex but it was implied.)
Play a game with her like F*ck/Marry/Kill.

Depends on the situation, with which girl.
"Kiss me" >> "Kiss me now" (For a first date, this holds true and sounds less pushy. Doesn't mean it's always true.)
Interesting! But, wouldn't every single girl who is asked the question of "what are your thoughts on hookups" immediately go to the anti-slut answer of "i don't do random hookups" (Even if they do)

I like the ****/marry/kill game but she might say i don't randomly have sex with anyone? I think the women i usually go on dates are not the ultra bold highly sexual ones although i have hooked up with these but that was prior to my marriage and ultimate divorce.
 

Sebastian0001

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men who are plugged into being captain save a hoe, and have no social skills with women, they still get laid.
how? isn't the whole point of DJ and sosuave that ppl who waste time saving a ho and who don't know what they are doing with women tend to fail with women? how would they still get laid?
 

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Sebastian0001

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I still think that's a bit direct, but depends how attracted she is. Asking a girl what her favorite position is too early could backfire. Mentioning those things to her would be better after you've already established touching with her.

I've found what works better during the banter stage is getting her to qualify herself to you. You want her to be in a position where she is justifying herself to her - you do this by asking her why she made certain life choices, in a non-judegmental way, and just get her to start explaining herself to you (but this is subtle. You don't want it to be an interrogation. You want it to be light, fun and teasing).

Escalating with strategic touching, vibe and eye contact brings even more mystery to it. Let her mind fantasize on its own. If you can just emit a sexual vibe without saying anything overly sexual then I've found this works best.

You'll discover that she might even start to try and close you. She might suddenly blurt out something like "So, do you have type?" - if she starts asking questions like that then you are in the driver's seat bigtime.
good points, is it ever ok to ask a woman if she has a type? Any examples of convo starters which would lead to having a sexual vibe without actually saying anything overtly sexual? This is exactly what I want to do but putting it into practice is the hard part.
 

Fruitbat

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You can blame the OP technique in not escalating but if a woman wants you or not she will know in about 5 mins of talking to you.

I’ve had some girls I could have literally said anything and they’d still be all over me. Others, I could try any “game” and theyd tell me to p1ss off.

Why escalating sexually verbally and non verbally is good is it will get you to “yes” or “no” quicker.

you can try any of the nonsense dancing to get your answer, or you could: she’s on a date with you. Both have a couple of drinks. When you’re moving from bar to restaurant or whatever just try and kiss her. If she freaks, you just say “sorry - we are on a date together no?”

I don’t think there is much that can be done with words. Girls either like you or they don’t. Your words are important as to how you interact with the world, but there is no “sales technique” which talks a woman into having sex with a guy they don’t want to have sex with.

dating is a numbers game. If she’s throwing out that ambiguity why waste your time when you have another 4 BN to go at?

I always Escalated in physical terms not verbal. Yea, I had some cringe moments. I had one or two “what you doing!!”
if you’re secure enough to laugh and say - ****, I misread that! Then you’re good,

in reality you kind of know before you lunge what the answer will be.

my wife, on our first date we went for food. Then I took her home in my car but I drove to a beautiful bridge near me and said I wanted to see the view with her. Kissed her on the middle, romance novel style, and she was very keen thereafter. Chicks dig all that “take it if you want it” shyt. Don’t ask.
obv this isn’t a rapists charter. Don’t forget that if they run off not to pursue :)

this is where incels get it wrong with all their “gentleman” BS. They see confident men as brash and ill mannered. It’s courage, it takes courage to take your shot at a girl you like. It’s cowardly to ask a girl “can I kiss you? Do you like me?” Before you lunge.
it’s the very fact that you didn’t know if you were wanted but you assumed it and went for what you wanted which girls like.
As I say, in reality you may pick up social cues anyway, but you gotta accept you gonna take one or two rounds of rejection if you want to succeed in any aspect of life.
gettjnf rejected occasionally means your pushing life hard and being courageous
 
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Zimbabwe

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Why escalating sexually verbally and non verbally is good is it will get you to “yes” or “no” quicker.
Exactly, the whole point of direct game is to get rid of time wasters.


fair enough, i think you are 100% correct and I appreciate the bluntness. I am far too timid at this point, its a mindset issue. In a way, ist good that its just a mindset issue because a mindset issue can be improved upon
We all start somewhere, at least you're in the right place and willing to learn. It just takes more practice really, if your mindset is the problem find the root cause of that issue.

Start getting into self improvement to improve your smv so you are more attractive to a wider range of women.
 

Pan87

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good points, is it ever ok to ask a woman if she has a type? Any examples of convo starters which would lead to having a sexual vibe without actually saying anything overtly sexual? This is exactly what I want to do but putting it into practice is the hard part.
No, because you already assume that you are here type (confidence 101. If you ask her that then it's qualifying. She needs to be asking you that question.
 

derby1

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how? isn't the whole point of DJ and sosuave that ppl who waste time saving a ho and who don't know what they are doing with women tend to fail with women? how would they still get laid?
No its a numbers game, having game is just the icing on the cake.

too much smooth operator and she will think your a player

I would go as far as to say women in 2021 dont want a masculine man, they are architects of their own misery and want a beta provider they can control, to feed their narcissism.

the only way the alpha card works is if you earn 200k, she will submit to you them.

alpha vibes in a 1 bedroom flat, she wont want the hassle of complying. she will want sex with you thats all.
 

andreihaha

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what if the topic of sex was brought on in a more conservative way? Maybe something like what is your view on sex? Or are you a virgin? Or some kind of bs emotional question like do u think there is a difference between spiritual sex and lust sex and why do u think its different? The point of all this being to get her mind on talking to you about sex which then makes her mentally connect you and sex which could ultimately be a good thing.
Nah, the sexualisation whould be used in a subtle way. Through words that hint at it. Or your mood and gestures even.
But that's just me.

You used the word "lust" in you comment, the moment you use "lust" when talking to a woman, her mind goes to sex without you saying "sex".
Again, that's what I do.

Women like to talk about sex, but exploring the subject too much and too soon can mess your chances of actually having sex with her.
Because if you're all "Sex this, sex that", the tension disappears. And with no tension, you're gonna be talking like friends.
So keep the tension building 'till the inevitable climax, be subtle.

Good luck.
 

Sebastian0001

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You can blame the OP technique in not escalating but if a woman wants you or not she will know in about 5 mins of talking to you.

I’ve had some girls I could have literally said anything and they’d still be all over me. Others, I could try any “game” and theyd tell me to p1ss off.

Why escalating sexually verbally and non verbally is good is it will get you to “yes” or “no” quicker.

you can try any of the nonsense dancing to get your answer, or you could: she’s on a date with you. Both have a couple of drinks. When you’re moving from bar to restaurant or whatever just try and kiss her. If she freaks, you just say “sorry - we are on a date together no?”

I don’t think there is much that can be done with words. Girls either like you or they don’t. Your words are important as to how you interact with the world, but there is no “sales technique” which talks a woman into having sex with a guy they don’t want to have sex with.

dating is a numbers game. If she’s throwing out that ambiguity why waste your time when you have another 4 BN to go at?

I always Escalated in physical terms not verbal. Yea, I had some cringe moments. I had one or two “what you doing!!”
if you’re secure enough to laugh and say - ****, I misread that! Then you’re good,

in reality you kind of know before you lunge what the answer will be.

my wife, on our first date we went for food. Then I took her home in my car but I drove to a beautiful bridge near me and said I wanted to see the view with her. Kissed her on the middle, romance novel style, and she was very keen thereafter. Chicks dig all that “take it if you want it” shyt. Don’t ask.
obv this isn’t a rapists charter. Don’t forget that if they run off not to pursue :)

this is where incels get it wrong with all their “gentleman” BS. They see confident men as brash and ill mannered. It’s courage, it takes courage to take your shot at a girl you like. It’s cowardly to ask a girl “can I kiss you? Do you like me?” Before you lunge.
it’s the very fact that you didn’t know if you were wanted but you assumed it and went for what you wanted which girls like.
As I say, in reality you may pick up social cues anyway, but you gotta accept you gonna take one or two rounds of rejection if you want to succeed in any aspect of life.
gettjnf rejected occasionally means your pushing life hard and being courageous
If the woman really does determine in the first 5 minutes if she wants you or not, then that would imply its all about the looks? Everything we have learned about women is that they are not the same as men in focusing on looks as the main driver of attraction - they use all the senses in being attracted including listening and touch which is why it is common to see below average guys with attractive women. What does "BN" mean? Also, when you are supposed to be taking the girl home but instead take her to some isolated bridge view, I think a lot of girls would freak out, especially if its the first date. It works only after repoire has been established and she is very clearly into you in my opinion. You kissed her on the middle of what?
 

Sebastian0001

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Nah, the sexualisation whould be used in a subtle way. Through words that hint at it. Or your mood and gestures even.
But that's just me.

You used the word "lust" in you comment, the moment you use "lust" when talking to a woman, her mind goes to sex without you saying "sex".
Again, that's what I do.

Women like to talk about sex, but exploring the subject too much and too soon can mess your chances of actually having sex with her.
Because if you're all "Sex this, sex that", the tension disappears. And with no tension, you're gonna be talking like friends.
So keep the tension building 'till the inevitable climax, be subtle.

Good luck.
so ur saying that asking her a question with the word lust in it is a good idea as long as i don't talk about sex too much, correct? For example I could ask her if she thinks there is a difference between lust sex and spiritual sex but then not use the word sex again on the date bc I should have successfully brought her mind to sex and now I can shift to subtle tension building behaviors like touch? Am I understanding correctly what ur saying?
 

Fruitbat

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If the woman really does determine in the first 5 minutes if she wants you or not, then that would imply its all about the looks? Everything we have learned about women is that they are not the same as men in focusing on looks as the main driver of attraction - they use all the senses in being attracted including listening and touch which is why it is common to see below average guys with attractive women. What does "BN" mean? Also, when you are supposed to be taking the girl home but instead take her to some isolated bridge view, I think a lot of girls would freak out, especially if its the first date. It works only after repoire has been established and she is very clearly into you in my opinion. You kissed her on the middle of what?
BN = billion.

the middle of the bridge.

the bridge isn’t isolated its a beautiful and stunning place.

as for the 5 mins = looks. No. 5 mins is enough to assess your social skills, frame, and from that can be inferred your likely occupation from your clothes.

5 mins isn’t a hard and fast rule, but you most certainly will be judged near enough in that time.

I need about 5 mins talking to another man to assess his place in the world, and I can scan a woman for crazy in that time, maybe, let’s be fair, say 30 mins.
 

andreihaha

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so ur saying that asking her a question with the word lust in it is a good idea as long as i don't talk about sex too much, correct? For example I could ask her if she thinks there is a difference between lust sex and spiritual sex but then not use the word sex again on the date bc I should have successfully brought her mind to sex and now I can shift to subtle tension building behaviors like touch? Am I understanding correctly what ur saying?
No, you don't need to use the word sex at all.

And what the fvck is spiritual sex?
 

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RangerMIke

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when you say don't talk about work or any negatives or complaints, what if my work is something I very much enjoy? Then is it ok to talk about it a little bit? Or is it more important to try to focus on more fun, light, flirty topics? And what are some examples of how to steer the conversation into that direction? What if I were to ask her something like "do you think there is a difference between spiritual sex and animal sex" or something like that to subtly make her mind connect me and the topic of sex? Or would that be weird?
You can talk about work... but stay positive about it. If you love your job, GREAT! Talk about it. But if you hate your job, it's better to talk about your hobbies and interests you like.

As far as trying to 'steer' the conversation towards sex... Well, On a first date.... I wouldn't recommend you do this unless she brings it up first. She has to open the door, then you have to go with it. The bottom-line here is any attempt you make to steer the conversation and she will know what you are doing. If she is open to you, yeah... she'll go with it, if not then she'll shut you down. Nothing wrong with going there, but understand doing this is no guarantee of success.

What you should be doing on a first date is LISTENING to what she is saying... I mean really listen. DO not go in with any expectations other than figuring out where you stand with her. Do not have a game plan... just try to figure out the situation. In military terms, the first date is a 'reconnaissance', it is not an 'attack'. You would never attack and enemy without knowing their disposition. Oh sure, sometimes these 'attacks' turn out okay, but that is just luck. More often than not these blind attacks end in failure. If after reconnaissance (first date) you figure out an attack would be a costly waste of time, then don't ask for a second date.

Ask questions... get her talking, then you just respond to what she is saying, never go into a first date with the attitude that you have a narrative you are trying to fit. Ask her what she likes to do in her free time... if she talks about painting, go with that, if you have some emotional story about visiting an art museum, share that... ask her WHY she is into painting... if she mentions it was her mother's influence... well then she just opened the door to talk about mothers and how they influence us, have some funny story to tell about mothers... or if you actually have a funny story about painting... share that.... how she responds will open more doors to talk about other things.... it's just building on a conversation. Don't lie in an attempt to build rapport. If you really don't get painting, or don't know much about it, then tell her. Tease her a bit, challenge her to convince you painting is something great. If she goes with that, well... great, now she is selling herself to you, which is where you want to be. If she doesn't.... well that means she's really not into you. Painting can be very erotic, so depending on how the conversation is going you can toss in some innuendo about posing in the nude.... then see if she runs with it.

You can do this with anything she likes... the important thing to understand is try and figure out WHY she likes what she likes, because we all make emotional decisions about things we like and don't like. This allows you to communicate emotionally.
 

TheCharmingGuy

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I think that would be biblical sex. Sounds even more weird. Uhh...
I’ve never encountered spiritual or biblical sex to my knowledge. I thought it was just sex. *shrug*
 

2Rocky

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1) get the dinner table out of the way. If you are determined to do dinner meet a ways away and walk to the restaurant.
2)Meet for a walk,
3) Greet her with a hug.
4) Be enthusiastic. High five on common interests or viewpoints.
5) Find her hot buttons (Sports teams, Hometowns, Favorite foods, dog or cat person, favorite season, brand of car, ) Relate to her on these points, and reward her with hugs.
6) have her take your arm as you walk. The manner in which se does that will indicate how turned on she is. If she squeezes your arm tight into her chest, you are in.
7) if you can work dancing into your date it just ups the Kino.
8) Don't kiss until you are "Finally Alone" and semi secluded. here you propose "going somewhere a little quieter"
 
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