I must stay clear of her...she's poison

[jophil28]

Jophil, thanks.
Its as if she understands loss, but not remorse,or regret. Lack of conscience. Even yesterday her words didn't seem to quite match.

**** They understand loss because it hurts THEM, just like children understand loss from day one .
However embracing and experiencing regret and remorse is a far more evolved concept. I bet that she is totally inconsistent in her empathic responses. SHe will perhaps express some apparent sadness for someone who is suffering BUT then treat you as if you are a mere object to be discarded when it suited her.
You see KC, she is incapable of reciprocity. It is all about her wants and needs.. You are her SUPPLY only. This may be what you refer to as a lack of conscience.
BTW have you researced Borderline Personality Disorder ?


She has asked what would make me happy. I tell her, and then she doesn't do it.

**** SHe does not do it because these women are incapble of giving .

She apologizes for me feeling left out, then goes right on leaving me out.


*** EXACTLY. These women are difficult to fathom I experienced the same behavior from a woman last year , SHe excluded me mostly from her life until I objected and then she reluctantly intoduced me to her relatives and friends in a piecemeal way. It was bewildering - Most women are eager to bring you into their life sphere .
I constantly felt diminished and devalued. I walked out on her four times and after sme days or a couple weeks she would call me on a pretext. She would always come back all sweet and sexy . As soon as the dust settled and the first makeup sex was over she reverted to the mindgames . And so the carousel turned around and around.
Ten months of this madness was enough for me - I was a mess.


You're and Rollo are right, the effort repairing a relationship is usually wasted. Far better is it to start off with someone new. We aren't married, we don't live together, we don't have children. I shouldn't have answered the phone yesterday. All it did was pull out stitches from a healing wound.
KC

****Stitches from a wound - precisely .

Good hunting KC.
Jophil

 

[Knight's Cross]

Wow, after looking up BPD it all makes sense now. She didn't get thru all her development as a child. While she was seeing a counselor she kept asking me how I felt about my childhood. Obviously the counselor was getting at the root of the issue. She was looking to see if I felt positive about my upbringing. Well I did, and have a close healthy relationship with my parents.
She has a strong fear of being left behind, or being alone. Then on the opposite she doesn't want to feel controlled. She would almost get in these panicky feelings when we'd spend "too much" time together. Literally described it as wanting to run away. Or said that she felt she couldn't breathe.
Ohh yeah, its been 13 months of this rollercoaster. I can hear Dr. Phil asking me," How's that working out for you"?

 

[mzilla2]

Wow some good stuff in here I can relate to!

I believe that people's past behaviours and preferences are very indicative of what they will they will be like in the future - people generally do not change!

I do a lot more active listening on dates now.

 

[decades]

Right now it's completely within your power to end this. You just have to decide you really want to. You haven't decided you do yet. You are still holding out hope that she will change and be the dream girl you think she could be. But as much as you write about her, it's all about YOU. All you have to do to be rid of her is go 100% no contact. That means NONE. No listening to VM no reading email no talking to her no answering the door when she comes knockin. The problem is most guys with your kind of addiction can't really do this. It's too final. Until you are absolutely certain that you want her gone for good, you will continue to play this game where you can blame her for coming back, for hoovering you, and crossing your weak boundaries. You haven't decided you want her completely gone yet. Until then at best you are going to be in the limbo you now find yourself, at worst you and her are going to have another go around, which will end in tears and heartache (for you). It's not about her. It's about YOU. What are you going to do?

 

[Knight's Cross]

Per-Ex. You are right. I haven't done that. There is no try. There is do, or do not. I've never been hard core enough to do that. I made it for a month in August. She repeatedly kept trying. I caved. Right now I feel completely exhausted. I don't want to see her, I want the pain to go away, and all I really want is peace.

 

[Interceptor]

KC, my gut feeling is that you must really, really Love this woman to be in so much pain.
Either that , this lady is a crazy, screaming lunatic or stands outside your house screaming at you.

Why are you in that much pain, man?

She's got issues. And she wants you to be her medecine, but you're just a man. You can't cure her.
I mean, I'm not a heartless, cold bastard, but I can't understand if you have other options, have a good life, and plenty of support in a social network , why are you "suffering " this much?

Do you feel you owe her?

What gives?

 

[Knight's Cross]

Interceptor,
I threw out my codebook. One code of which was to accept no integrity issues. I am paying for that. Now, today here's where it stands I am holding ground. I am going out with a lady friend for dinner tonight, she's a friend only, but she is a cool gal. Thursday I am going to dinner with friends downtown. I know what I did...I followed the AFC self castration plan. I quit spinning, I let her think she was my only source. On top of that she has the issues we are all talking about. So yeah, I fell down. Now I'm standing here rubbing some dirt in it and trying to get back up.
I do have options, I just hurt myself by limiting my social circle. Never shoulda done that.
When I started dating her I didn't have SS. Now I do. I am opening my eyes. Its tough, but I am gettin there.
KC

 

[jophil28]

Wow, after looking up BPD it all makes sense now. She didn't get thru all her development as a child.

That is right and you were not her Daddy, the daddy that she never had !

I say it again- these women are unfit for an LTR .
They have the emotional development of a child BUT run around looking like women, screwing like women and sounding like women. Gradually the men in their life get crazy with confusion and frustration and resentment.
THEY ARE CHILDREN in adult bodies . They are cunning, selfish, lack empathy, devious, sel gratifying, and unreliable . That describes childen's behavior.

" The greatest truth is in their behavior "

 

[Knight's Cross]

Jophil,
You are so right. I finished writing my list, kept it short and 1 page of the first time deal breakers, and second. WOW. Once I wrote it out its like a NTSB report on why a airplane crash occurs. It was a collection of failures. In this case I can sum it up by a comment that the ex's sister said months ago to me when we were at dinner. She said that X got her way, or everyone was going to feel the pain about it afterwards if she didn't.
TOTALLY a CHILD.
Right now she's continued to bombard me with messages, texts etc. For the most part I've erased them on reciept. I did look at one and it totally fit the pattern. She tried to use guilt in it. Said that I sent her a mean message the other day. Well the message was in response to her saying that she was sorry for some action that she did earlier in the week. Basically we were supposed to get together and she decided to stay at her parents/ sisters to visit longer with her new nephew. We had plans, she blew them off to do what she wanted. She uses "sorry" as a "I'm going to do what I want anyway, but you should be ok, because I said I'm sorry" I called her out on it, and I replied, "sorry is just a word, I am tired of dissapointments, goodbye" I've closed the door on her. I know what she is. A frickin Monster. A counselors nightmare, and not worthy of a well adjusted guy like myself that has it going on. Let her be some other guy's problem. She is no longer mine.
NO CONTACT
KC

 

[squirrels]

Every time I see this thread title, I get that song stuck in my head:

That girl is POOOII-SOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNN!!

 

[jophil28]

Every time I see this thread title, I get that song stuck in my head:

That girl is POOOII-SOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNN!!

KC - you are not out of the danger zone yet.
The following scenario may be in store for you soon-

When my BPD looney knew that I was dating another woman after she and I broke up , she waited a few days and then called me until I (foolishly) answered.
SHe was balling hysterically ,telling me about how she has been reading my
" beautiful emails" and how she "remembers when she had a spontaneous orgasm on the dance floor" on our second date- "How did you do that to me Jophil ?"
SHe was playing to my ego and triggering my recollection of the good times.
I listened to her emotionally manipulate me for and hour and a half.
I loved that woman BUT she was the most destructive and devious cheating mindfvcker I ever met.

I went out on two dates the following weekend with her.
She seemed to recover from her meltdown - miraculously. !!
The second night I was sitting in her car talking, and I opened my shoulder bag to fetch my keys. She saw three condoms inside (I had placed them inside intentionally so that she would see them at some point) and the shyte hit the fan.
SHe called me a few days later and said that she had deleted my number and email address from her computer.
I never heard from her again.

 

[Knight's Cross]

Jophil,
I know. This is where she starts in earnest. Always has been. The message I left her the other day was," I am tired of dissapointment, goodbye". Now she will start pounding to get back in. I recieved one text today. Guess she's at work. I ignored it. All inbound messages are being erased. If it continues I'm going to call her celphone provider and block her. That will probably incite a confrontation. Good, so be it. Tired of living like this. The lady friend that I went out with last night does counseling work. She knows I'm spiritual, and asked if I thought that this was a good plan for me. Was this what God wanted for me? Nope. She also asked if I want to have kids some day. I said that I did. Her next question was," What do you think this womans child raising skills are going to be like"? The last thing she reminded me of is this is just dating. This is supposed to be the fun part. Ok so if we did get married, what would it be like if some traumatic life event happened. In other words if you don't feel good now, how are you going to feel when some life curve ball gets thrown at you and you are already using all your energy just dealing with her existing problems....Wise input.
KC

 

[jophil28]

Jophil,
I
. In other words if you don't feel good now, how are you going to feel when some life curve ball gets thrown at you and you are already using all your energy just dealing with her existing problems....Wise input.
KC

This is priceless wisdom .

BPD women drain you dry of energy. They are 'covert drama queens' who create roadblocks and potholes every step of the journey to try to control their fear of intimacy.
They are also master manipulators - they have to be because the men in their life ALL leave them because of the exhaustion of being with them .
However these women are jammed tight in the "engulfment/ abandonment" dichotomy.
They tremble at intimacy and commitment ( engulfment to them ) because it requires them to GIVE to meet's the man's needs .Being vulnerable and being emotionally present is just as scary . THis requires them to drop their defenses which are their safeguard. SO they try to have ROMANCES instead of true intimate relationshiops. A romance gives her the FEELINGS of being desired and loved WITHOUT commitment and obligation to the man (engulfment). They want all the fun and romantic FEELING but none of the responsibility of true connection. Hence they create "part time" or fragmented intimate relationships on THEIR terms. They try to keep you in a "pigeon hole", separated from the rest of their life.

These BPD 'ladies' want life to be as a child wants life. All fun and play but no cost.
They want to take the journey but not pay for a ticket.

They are playing an emotional "shell game" - they create such an atmosphere of frustration in their relationships , that the man in their life eventually walks away. ABANDONMENT ! Their greatest horror comes true !

SO then they 'hoover' you back with sex and offer empty promises of reconciliation and the whole cycle starts again. .and again..and so it goes into a slow downward spiral into madness..

 

[Knight's Cross]

Day 1 of Journey to Self Awareness : No contact, all messages deleted, all calls ignored.
Preparing self for her impending drive by confrontation.
Realizing that this is so stupid. Mad at self for taking this long. Glad I have found this place. Now I know why VU calls us Soldiers. Thats what it is. Battle, War, or struggle for our hearts.
KC

 

[jophil28]

Day 1 of Journey to Self Awareness : No contact, all messages deleted, all calls ignored.
Preparing self for her impending drive by confrontation.
Realizing that this is so stupid. Mad at self for taking this long. Glad I have found this place. Now I know why VU calls us Soldiers. Thats what it is. Battle, War, or struggle for our hearts.
KC

Self-awareness? Deep down we all KNOW the answer - it just takes a long time to DO the answer. THis board acts as a daily motivator to me to ACT on deeper knowledge and wisdom. On MM, we get " permission" and encouragement to do what feels daunting but is ultimately the "right" thing. However this is usually not the expected or convenient thing as far as others are concerned.
Nowadays I just do it "No Matter What.'"

 

[Knight's Cross]

Jophil,
Its probably been said before. I know I've heard this from other men that I know. "Why do we wait for permission to live our lives?" Fear? Its our life for F#%KS sake! Yes I know what to do. I'm doing it. Right now I feel like crap, but the alternative is living in shame. Thats far worse. Sorta like a patient in a hospital taking chemo. It sucks, it makes you sick, but in the end it KILLS CANCER.
Now the other lesson learned is not to skip the principles. The first sign of flaky, less than tolerable behavior I should have booted her. It would have saved me the better part of a year. REGARDLESS of the sex, the other benefits, all of it. I skipped the big 3 that Doc Love preaches, and I paid the price.
Staying the course,
KC

 

[jophil28]

Jophil,
Its probably been said before. I know I've heard this from other men that I know. "Why do we wait for permission to live our lives?" Fear? Its our life for F#%KS sake! Yes I know what to do. I'm doing it. Right now I feel like crap, but the alternative is living in shame. Thats far worse. Sorta like a patient in a hospital taking chemo. It sucks, it makes you sick, but in the end it KILLS CANCER.
Now the other lesson learned is not to skip the principles. The first sign of flaky, less than tolerable behavior I should have booted her. It would have saved me the better part of a year. REGARDLESS of the sex, the other benefits, all of it. I skipped the big 3 that Doc Love preaches, and I paid the price.
Staying the course,
KC

Stay the course KC.

And when a decent, deserving woman comes your way you will land the plane.
BTW what are Doc Love's Big 3 ?

 

[Knight's Cross]

Potential women in your life must have at a base: Integrity, Flexibility, and a Giving Nature. If they aren't there, you shouldn't waste your time. So the first lie she tripped herself up in I probably should have said,"Your Fired".
I read a book called, "Boundaries in Dating". Good solid information there.There advice was that there are 2 types of liars. The first lies because they aren't sure yet if you will accept them, i.e. they may be ashamed of something and don't want you to run. They can change, once they feel safe with you. The second lie as a way of operating. They are never to be trusted, and will not change.

Now which category do you think she fell into? I figured that out. Unfortunately she was very good at coverup. Lies upon lies. With time they unravel. Its hard to keep them straight since they don't match what really happened.
KC

 

[Last Man Standing]

If she is as bad as you describe then why are you with her? It is you who has the problem for being with such

Hos are not "givers" - they are "takers" - they suck your life blood!!

 

[Knight's Cross]

LMS,
I hear you. No, she wasn't awful. As we progressed, the real her came out. The taker/ phobic person started to show. It's not as if I saw these traits right off the bat. She hid them well, while learning what buttons of mine to push. Then her fears, phobia began to show. While I'd get frustrated with moving forward, she'd pull out the stops to pull me back in. If told her my needs and didn't put any consequence to her not meeting them, she would just ignore them. Then I'd try the takeaway, which worked...she would come back like a boomerang. Meeting my needs short term, but then going right back to the person she was with fear and issues. It's all about making deposits. Emotional, physical, or whatever. If you just want a BMW but you don't pay for it, you don't get to keep it.
I'm on day 2. Going to work, keeping busy, and going out with friends tonight.
KC