I cheated : now I feel like s**t

[Mr.Positive]

Azanon, I may have jumped the gun on that last post, however, it did hit a nerve.

I interpreted your perception/reality excuse..and it is an excuse, as just another way to justify having made a poor decision.

It lacks all accountability...and the straw man argument, I'm not going to google it. Because, you could justify anything by saying if it's perceived a certain way, that it didn't happen.

Let's all stick our heads in the sand and see how far we go in life.

 

[azanon]

Azanon, I may have jumped the gun on that last post, however, it did hit a nerve.

No, it didn't. Sorry if that disappoints? I'm just responding to you.

I interpreted your perception/reality excuse..and it is an excuse, as just another way to justify having made a poor decision.

It's an excuse to you. Not one cell in my body would even feel the need for an excuse in that situation. It's important for you to remember that not all of us feel accountability for ghosts and/or other unseen/unsubstantiated beings. Is this why you feel excuses are needed, or is there some other reason? By all means, don't let me explain yourself for you!

...and the straw man argument, I'm not going to google it. Because, you could justify anything by saying if it's perceived a certain way, than it didn't happen/

Ok, lazy, I'm here to help:

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person. "

Specifically, we went from talking about simply "cheating" on a girlfriend to you assuming I would endorse stealing millions from a company (because I see nothing wrong with the former scenario). If that's not Straw Man, what the he** is?

 

[guru1000]

There are two types of people in this world. Some accept responsibility while others will justify.

One of the many attributes of HIGH CHARACTER is accepting responsibility for your actions.

95% of the population will perceptually justify their behavior.

Look at your PERCEPTION, and you will see who you are.

 

[Mr.Positive]

No, it didn't. Sorry if that disappoints? I'm just responding to you.



It's an excuse to you. Not one cell in my body would even feel the need for an excuse in that situation. It's important for you to remember that not all of us feel accountability for ghosts and/or other unseen/unsubstantiated beings. Is this why you feel excuses are needed, or is there some other reason? By all means, don't let me explain yourself for you!



Ok, lazy, I'm here to help:

"The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person. "

Specifically, we went from talking about simply "cheating" on a girlfriend to you assuming I would endorse stealing millions from a company (because I see nothing wrong with the former scenario). If that's not Straw Man, what the he** is?

Azanon...your post struck a nerve with me.

As far as all this scientific evidence you threw in to cloud and "disprove" what I was saying...you are missing the point.

Here's what I'm saying.

Logic cheated on his gf. Your perceptions/reality cop-out, he actually did not cheat if she perceives he's trustworthy.

I'll use this to justify more wrong-doings.

You steal from work. Your perceptions/reality cop-out, you actually didn't steal if the company percieves you are trustworthy.

I could come up with more examples on how to rationalize our actions if you would like.

 

[azanon]

There are two types of people in this world. Some accept responsibility while others will justify.

One of the many attributes of HIGH CHARACTER is accepting responsibility for your actions.

95% of the population will perceptually justify their behavior.

Look at your PERCEPTION, and you will see who you are.

You're oversimplifying the choices. Accepting responsibility could (and, should in my opinion) in this situation constitute recognizing that the most hurtful thing that could be done to her now would be to tell her that she was cheated on. If he is remorseful for it, and has no intentions of doing it again, then the responsible thing for her could be not telling her. This is a pro/con sort of thing.

Honesty can have its downsides, and sometimes the downsides can be greater than the upsides, even from a purely benevolent, good-intentioned point of view.

But generally speaking, your stats are way off. Most people actually create artificial rules for themselves. You prefer the term "character". "High character" has since the beginning of time gotten high marks for political correctness. I highly support the perception of that for everyone; deserved or not. I'm here to help you guys so I'm not all that concerned about that perception here.

 

[Mr.Positive]

There are two types of people in this world. Some accept responsibility while others will justify.

One of the many attributes of HIGH CHARACTER is accepting responsibility for your actions.

95% of the population will perceptually justify their behavior.

Look at your PERCEPTION, and you will see who you are.

Well said Guru.

 

[azanon]

As far as all this scientific evidence you threw in to cloud and "disprove" what I was saying...you are missing the point.

Wow, the irony. My very point just previous was that YOU clouded the argument with the introduction of your straw man.

Logic cheated on his gf. Your perceptions/reality cop-out, he actually did not cheat if she perceives he's trustworthy.

I'll use this to justify more wrong-doings.

You steal from work. Your perceptions/reality cop-out, you actually didn't steal if the company percieves you are trustworthy.

I could come up with more examples on how to rationalize our actions if you would like.

I've already addressed all of this; 1. why I don't believe it's cheating and 2. Your straw man. Lets move on.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I've already addressed all of this; 1. why I don't believe it's cheating and 2. Your straw man. Lets move on.

The only thing you have addressed azanon, is the you personally can bend your values to fit your situation, and be able to justify it.

I still do not see how this straw man thing applies to anything I've posted on.

Agreed. Let's move on.

 

[azanon]

Look, I'm not trying to poo-poo on all those feel-good attributes like honesty, character, loyality, diligence, etc. I get just as moved by these people as the next guy. Not long ago we celebrated MLK, and I think, "wow, what a guy". Would I have wanted to be him? h*** freakin' no. But do I respect him? Absolutely, sure I do.

Life offers all sorts of things, whatever your fancy is. If you want to be a "Mother Teresa", suffer all through your life, but be loved by millions, that choice is yours to take. It's not the choice I want to go with, and I'm PERFECTLY ok with that, but don't let me stop you!

 

[azanon]

The only thing you have addressed azanon, is the you personally can bend your values to fit your situation, and be able to justify it.

Yes. So are we moving to a point where we can agree to disagree on life philosophies? I won't speak for you, but I'm as happy and successful as I could have every possibly dreamed to be, so I must be doing something right.

I still do not see how this straw man thing applies to anything I've posted on.

At least a third of the general public wouldn't either. * shrug *

..............

Here's a positive attribute of mine, Mr. Positive. I'm not one to hold grudges. That being said, you're one of my favorite posters here. This didn't change that. My mind's already made up on that. We were bound to butt heads eventually!

 

[Latinoman]

I really don't want to belittle your guilt, because I do believe for you it's very real but, if you ask me, the only kind of cheating even worth posting about in a mature forum would be on a wife or husband.

Please, please forgive me if this sounds insensitive, but i'm trying to help: Big Deal!

You are a Saint to the 9th degree if that's the worst you've done or will do.

.......

How do you get past it? Realize you're human, and you proved that when you cheated, forget about it and never tell her. Since it wasn't pleasurable for you overall, I recommend that you not do it again.

If you are in a committed relationship...it does not matter if she is a girlfriend or wife or fiance...betrayal still betrayal.

This is not an issue about the other person (wife, girlfriend, fiance). This is more of an issue about HIS character and HIS guilt.

When a man does something...he better be ready to look himself in the mirror. If he can't...then that's simply an indication that he betrayed HIS character.

That's the issue in here.

 

[azanon]

If you are in a committed relationship...it does not matter if she is a girlfriend or wife or fiance...betrayal still betrayal.

This is not an issue about the other person (wife, girlfriend, fiance). This is more of an issue about HIS character and HIS guilt.

When a man does something...he better be ready to look himself in the mirror. If he can't...then that's simply an indication that he betrayed HIS character.

That's the issue in here.

If you look at everything I've said, you'd see that I'm not disagreeing with you here. Ok, sure, I initially made the comment about her being "just" a girlfriend, but what I went on to say supports exactly what you're saying here.

I advised him to not do it again since he did not feel good about it. We agree. I am all about self-wellness and self-happiness, and there's nothing happy or well about being eat-up with guilt. Either kill the guilt, or don't do what caused it.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

...This is commonly referred to as a Straw Man argument. If you're not familiar with it, google it. Once you come to recognize it, you'll understand why I'm not even going to entertain answering it.

I would have never had imagined that the concept of logical fallacy would ever be mentioned in this forum!

 

[Latinoman]

Either kill the guilt, or don't do what caused it.

I agree.

 

[ketostix]

OK not taking sides but Mr Positive did not make a strawman argument. He referenced your logical basis Azanon. It follows logically the way he presented it.

 

[jophil28]

I have never cheated on anyone, and if I did I would probably be in the same boat, but to answer the question of how to feel "better", all you have to do is what women have been doing for eons....RATIONALIZE.

Only problem is, you are a MAN, and men have a much harder time deluding themselves over stuff like this.

Freakin' priceless advice - Im laughing my ass off down here.

 

[Latinoman]

OK not taking sides but Mr Positive did not make a strawman argument. He referenced your logical basis Azanon. It follows logically the way he presented it.

No...it does not.

Stealing is a CRIME, punishable with jail time. Phucking is NOT a crime.

 

[ketostix]

No...it does not.

Stealing is a CRIME, punishable with jail time. Phucking is NOT a crime.

Then you're saying it's a false analogy (which I don't think it is), not a straw man argument. Besides whether something is consider a criminal offense, whether a misdemeanor or a felony seems irrelevant when the argument was over perception.

A true straw man argument would be more like arguing "Azanon said it was OK to cheat if you don't get caught". Which is not what he really said and no one accused him of saying that. What azonon really did, as Str8up pointed out, is adopted female rationalizing. Most women don't feel quilty about anything through rationalization. Having said al that I'm not saying Azanon was wrong in this particual situation or not. I'm just making the point that some guys here are rationalizing things and claiming it's a logical way to operate.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I think what it comes down to is personal values. We all have different values, and we take actions in life, and have experiences, that challenge these values each day.

When you take everything away, wealth, popularity, the media, strip everything away down to the core level..your personal values define you..as a man.

Knowing what your values are, and making decisions based on your values..the right decisions, for you...will lead you to finding an inner peace and happiness that nobody can challenge.

You are a rock. You can take anything that life throws at you, with a positive mindset, and succeed.

While cheating may not be a crime, there is still a victim...there is a person on the receiving end that could be hurt by being decieved that way.

I think that when we make choices, we ought to own up to them. Taking the easy way out is weak, IMO.

 

[jophil28]

I cheated on my GF this weekend.. I am 33 years old.. Was with my ex-wife for 12 years and had many exclusive GFs before and after the ex-wife. I have NEVER cheated on a significant other until now.. I really feel like a piece of slime.. How do I get past this?

Whoa- slow down here, I have a few questions and a point to make about guilt.

Was the relationship between you and your G/f committed and exclusive?
If yes, was this implied or expressly agreed.

How long have you two been together?

Has she dated anyome else in that period ? Have you?

The issue of GUILT is important here. "Guilt" has had a bad rap from the limp
d!ck liberal side of the counselling profession ,however guilt is appropriate undersome circumstances . For example -
A guy who rapes an innocent woman deserves to be incarcerated for his crime, and it fits that he SHOULD feel guilt.
A woman who fukks the pool guy every Thursday but continues to live in the 3 storey mansion provided for her hardworking husband SHOULD feel GUILT, whether she is found out or not.

Guilt is GOOD if -
Harm is/was being done.
The perpetrator is sane.
The perp is aware of his/her actions at the time.

My 2 cents/