Hungary's PM bans gender study at colleges saying 'people are born either male or female'

[Soflobro#3]

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/19/...nghUokbagr-qjNK21HHp1oQy7eobm4yvfEl_g56GFI-Q4

"In the face of political moves such as this recent decision that mischaracterize and question the academic legitimacy of Gender Studies, we stress that the concept of gender, as a fundamental component of the human experience, has proven its importance in and across many areas of academic research."

This is a good sign. We should ban womens studies and feminism from all universities.

 

[samspade]

Eh, banning studying things is not the way to go. Why not fight knowledge with knowledge? If something is easily refutable, then refute it.

 

[Soflobro#3]

Eh, banning studying things is not the way to go. Why not fight knowledge with knowledge? If something is easily refutable, then refute it.

Because facts and data don't mean anything to feminists or sjw leftists. It facts mattered we wouldn't be having the epidemic of sjw ideologies in universities we're having today and it's so bad it's affecting government stats and legislation. Also it's illegal to even talk about and even more so, to teach alternative holocaust theory.

 

[samspade]

Because facts and data don't mean anything to feminists or sjw leftists. It facts mattered we wouldn't be having the epidemic of sjw ideologies in universities we're having today and it's so bad it's affecting government stats and legislation. Also it's illegal to even talk about and even more so, to teach alternative holocaust theory.

Agreed, I would just like to see the hard sciences stand up for themselves. "Here is the data." The humanities can be their own thing and it's fine to debate theory and such. Feminism exists and can be studied. Even gender studies. Those are subjects that eggheads can pursue. When they start making empirical statements that go against biology, then biology can respond with its facts. The problem is that as you said there's no free speech on campus.

 

[Soflobro#3]

Agreed, I would just like to see the hard sciences stand up for themselves. "Here is the data." The humanities can be their own thing and it's fine to debate theory and such. Feminism exists and can be studied. Even gender studies. Those are subjects that eggheads can pursue. When they start making empirical statements that go against biology, then biology can respond with its facts. The problem is that as you said there's no free speech on campus.

The main problem is when it starts influencing legislation and becoming the norm in culture in general. This is the same pattern that predeceded the holocaust. What feminists are doing is the same thing Hitler and the nazi party did to demonize the jews. Litterally exactly the same.

 

[Soflobro#3]

So would we, however the Universities are there to promote propaganda, not fact. They start with the wage gap lie and work from there.

It is incumbent upon the feminists to justify their position to have the courses to begin with, and they need to bring facts first. Not garbage.

At this point the media and the universities are enemies if society. They didn't use to be when they focused on facts and objective education.

 

[soulforge]

They realize destruction of the family unit starts with weaponizing women against their men.

This is brilliant.. Divide & Conquer!

This is exactly how they operate!

 

[soulforge]

Eh, banning studying things is not the way to go. Why not fight knowledge with knowledge? If something is easily refutable, then refute it.

You can refute all you like with facts and knowledge.. It will not change a damn thing!

These people brush over facts.. Truth doesn't doesn't mean anything to them!

Only there position and agenda matters to them.

I'm perfectly happy with this ban.

 

[samspade]

I see your points, but I've always thought banning things just encourages people. Everyone knows you can't do squat with those types of degrees. Once you make something forbidden you give it a lot more power, because people assume those banning (government) are afraid of it.

 

[oOh Nasty]

At this very moment in time, I'll have to agree with @samspade here. While I very much loathe the feminism and SJW mindset, I feel as if they should have the chance to express themselves within the realm of lawfulness. I still have faith that there are a good amount of people who aren't prone to violence or mobbing to support their cult. Those who go that far are just pretty sick-minded to begin with IMO.

 

[samspade]

That's a fair point.

Let's step back and take a different approach.

Should we have degrees in Astrology? Witchcraft? Racial competence?

If we ban these without discussion....then are we proving them valuable? Shouldn't we allow it?

Or should there be a vetring process for determining what should have programs and why?

Should it be based on facts? Or feelings? Or whether it suits a political agenda?

That's a good approach, Danger.

My take: If a school wants to offer those programs, more power to them.

If a person wants to major in Astrology, go right ahead.

Where that will take them is anyone's guess.

I get what you're saying. Will Astrology be taught as a science, or as a curiosity? It doesn't qualify as a hard science, unless the class teaches people "here's the lack of evidence that the positions of celestial bodies relative to your body don't predict your day." But it can be taught, just as religion is taught, and is philosophy.

Ultimately, these opportunities say more about the culture driving them than anything. I can imagine someone from Sudan studying to be a priest, but it's hard to imagine him studying a pseudoscience as a means to discovery and fulfillment. What it says is we in the West live with such a degree of comfort that someone can major in feminist studies or whatever.

But the act of banning them says more about politicians. What stake do they have in banning a subject? Why should they care if someone chooses a useless major and works at a cafe for the rest of her life? Why would they fear it to such a degree that they would ban it? If it's just an attempt at social engineering, well, like most political solutions, they're solving the problem at the wrong end. Encouraging kids to be interested in math and science would be more effective.

These were punchlines when I was in college: Women's studies, African American studies (hello, varsity football team), Kinesiology. And every fall there is a news story about a class being taught on [latest cultural touchstone] at some major school. Even I was a dreaded "communications" major.

Most schools do have vetting processes, and you can really study anything. It doesn't make it a hard science, but if it exists, you can study it. I don't know how Hungary works and if these are taxpayer-funded schools, so maybe that is a factor in this.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Im usually against all forms of ban and censorship, I agree that facts should be enough to silence bullsh1t.

But in this case we are facing weaponized people who listen no reason or facts while spreading like a cancer while taking advantage of people low self esteem and ignorance.

Just like if someone push for ethnic cleaning we silence them instead of letting facts talk (as if those would listen at facts), the same should be done for any ideology that undermine society from his very base which is private property, family union and freedom of speech.

Just like democracy can suspend itself to self preserve against nazis and similar, so it should do against other form of nazi who just happen to aim at a different target.

 

[user43770]

Eh, banning studying things is not the way to go. Why not fight knowledge with knowledge? If something is easily refutable, then refute it.

We're past that point. Universities, government and the media have been taken over by leftists, and they don't take criticism lightly. They will flat out ruin your career for saying the wrong thing.

 

[user43770]

I was reading the story about "Crosswalk Cathy" last night. Apparently, a woman called the cops regarding a car that was illegally parked and it just so happened to be owned by a black person. Cue leftist NPCs on twitter trying to ruin her life.

The social sciences used to be promoted as a means of improving ones critical thinking skills, but these days it does the opposite.

 

[samspade]

I was reading the story about "Crosswalk Cathy" last night. Apparently, a woman called the cops regarding a car that was illegally parked and it just so happened to be owned by a black person. Cue leftist NPCs on twitter trying to ruin her life.

The social sciences used to be promoted as a means of improving ones critical thinking skills, but these days it does the opposite.

She called the cops on an illegally-parked car? While any PC hysteria that ensued afterward is ridiculous, it also speaks volumes about how pathetic people are today. You have to be some kind of snowflake not to try to work out a problem like that on your own. (I haven't read the story though.)

As for the university thing. Here's a solution: Don't go there. I don't know about Hungary, but there are plenty of schools in the US that don't offer those courses. Or, just don't take the classes. Nobody is forcing anybody to enroll in b.s. classes.

If you're a hiring manager, don't hire people who aren't qualified. Simple solution that doesn't require a parliament and won't turn these snowflakes into martyrs. If you're a parent and don't want to pay for your kid's lousy education, then don't unless they change their enrollment.

Running to government for protection from scary ideas, on the other hand, that sounds familiar. A page from the feminist/leftist playbook. It's a nice stand and all, but it's not going to stop the marketplace from functioning.

What you all are saying about lack of free speech on campus is an entirely different matter, one that sucks, but again, the only way to fix it is to make the right choices.

 

[samspade]

They...are governmemt sanctioned and thus are considered by default credible.

There's your problem. Do you consider everything sanctioned by the government to be "by default credible"? And do you think the prime minister or president should decide for you what to study? Not what you consider legitimate, but what you are allowed to study or teach, shall we say (since one can study at home).

The closes analog I can think of is that in public schools in the US, you cannot teach religion. I went to private schools and learned about religion. There is no proof of the legitimacy of any of the religions I learned about, but they do exist. It didn't indoctrinate me.

I see your greater point about the mission of taxpayer-funded higher education. Believe me, I worked at one and they are off the deep end with some of this gender crap. There is way too much intimidation when it comes to offending people. But, if someone wants to study this stuff, I don't care - let them. They can serve me my french fries in a few years.

 

[Ranger]

Eh, banning studying things is not the way to go. Why not fight knowledge with knowledge? If something is easily refutable, then refute it.

A double edge sword. When does knowledge become propaganda?
When does viewpoint and opinion get taught as fact?
Mao, bulshivics, Pol Pot, all killed off the adult populations and traditions to then be able to use education as indoctrination programs.
I do see your point. Who actually draws that line?
Just remove any public funding from those things that go against biology and make the institutions sell it to get people to participate. If it’s popular and people are willing to pay...go for it.

 

[samspade]

But as long as Government is in the business of Universities, then no way in hell should that $hit be taught, it is propaganda.

Good points you've made, so I guess we disagree fundamentally on some things and no need for me to argue it more. I do wonder if government should be in the business of universities.

However, I'm not in the US anymore; I moved to Europe and am pursuing a Master's. (Not in Gender Studies, though.) The European model of private/public is obviously much different, so I'm going into this experience with an open mind to see how the other part of the West live. At least the degree is cheap - a bonus of taxpayer-funded higher ed.

Today I had my first day of class, and it was refreshing in this way: Everyone seems serious about the education. Nobody so far (though it's early) has brought their grievances into the classroom. The atmosphere overall today and last week in orientation was one about school, and not everyone's personal politics and victimhood. I worked at an American college for a decade and heard and saw and was "trained" on plenty of these things. Students there bring that shyt into every discussion, and one of the last emails I got was how to address the ze's and zir's and they's and ask in advance about gender. I just rolled my eyes and thanked myself for getting out of that environment.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Right wingers have always been at odds with that there fancy book learning. Look at who they elected president. He is barely literate. The dumber you are, the easier it is to hate without asking questions. Them immagrunts is comin fer our white women! I say we nuke'em!

 

[samspade]

Right wingers have always been at odds with that there fancy book learning. Look at who they elected president. He is barely literate. The dumber you are, the easier it is to hate without asking questions. Them immagrunts is comin fer our white women! I say we nuke'em!

Education is not intelligence.