How would you have handled this hoop/s-test? Impossible??

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

I'm posting this to learn from it, not to salvage a situation with a chick (we both have walked away and in the end, it came to nothing). But, I wonder if I could have successfully passed a test she threw at me, or whether it was an impossible one and I was doomed from the get-go.

I'll try to make a long-story short. Met an HB8/8.5, but she was 20 years younger than me (didn't know that at first). Opened her cold at a bar/pub, chatted about 1 hour, got her number, and she agreed to a date.

Without any phone blowing up, I texted her twice for dates in the next month, which she agreed to and then bailed at last minute. Okay, I figured, that's done. I had other plates and continued to spin them....

A month or two later she sees me at a music club, hunts me down, we chat and flirt nicely. It seems as if she didn't realize we were into the same type of music, which might have helped the first time I met her.

Anyway, about 2 weeks later I message her about a band in town, she meets me there, we dance all night (hot, heavy, sexy), make-out a few times. She asks if I'd like to go dancing again and of course I do. I also invite her to a cookout at my place the next day, she agrees but again flakes (said it was work related...whatever).

So, my chase mode went up, down, then up again, and then down again. She's hot and we have great chemistry, but she's wary of the age difference and like a girl, she's playing games.

OKAY, NOW THE IMPOSSIBLE TEST/HOOP (?)

Twice in the next month I bump into her and we chat nicely, a little flirting, but there's tension because when we did have a good time and I suggested lets go out together, I got the same response twice: "Yeah, that sounds great. But, I'm really busy with school, work, and my kid. So, when I have free time, I usually spend it with family or friends. I'll call you when I can get out."

So, she likes me enough to flirt and make out and agree to going out. But her terms are that she's busy and she'll contact me. Twice after that, I see her at the club for a band but she clearly did not contact me, though she had time to go out. So, her interest level is not simply high enough, clearly. No problem, it happens.

So, what would a DJ have done in response to her test???

(1) If you call to ask her out again (when she said you should wait for her to contact you), you are needy.... Even if you frame it in your head that you are "taking what you want" and are leading, she's likely to see this as a failed test and you are out.

(2) You don't call and take her at her word. Then, if you do that, she thinks you are too weak in that you follow a woman's orders and a real man don't play that game. You are out.

If you call, you're done. If you don't call, you are done.

Is there a winning play? What move would you have made?

Think of your answer and write it up.... come back and scroll down because I think I figured out the winning play MUCH TO FREAKING LATE. I learned a lesson here and maybe you can too....(scroll down for what I think is the winning play).


























WHAT I SHOULD HAVE DONE:

The first time she said, "I'm really busy with school, work, and my kid, so I'll call you when I can get out" (remember, I had gotten her number a while back), I should have said something like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, we've all heard that one before. Next Friday, you, me, and drinks and dancing again at club XZY. I'll text you that morning. See you later."

Or something like that.

My mistake: I let her frame the meaning of the future interaction. Her frame was that she was going to lead the terms of seeing each other again. Just like giving a woman your number, women do not usually contact men, especially the hot ones with lots of options.

In a case such as this, if you (1) call when she says you should wait, you fail; (2) if you wait for her to call, you fail. You have to stop this in its tracks as it is happening, which that part of me that is still AFC forgets constantly as I tend to err on the side of being respectful, honest, and open and, really stupidly, somehow expect (what I perceive to be good) women to do the same.

And I could have landed this one too. Ran into her last week, got the "new boyfriend" line dropped on me.... at least I had committed myself not to ask her out anymore by that point.

Still, with some better/tighter game, I'd have had a top hottie to throw into the rotation. At least plate spinning makes this pill easier to swallow.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

I'll make it easy for you:

"Yeah, that sounds great. But, I'm really busy with school, work, and my kid. So, when I have free time, I usually spend it with family or friends. I'll call you when I can get out." = "I don't want to see you."

Think about it:

1. She has your number but doesn't call or text you about seeing you one-on-one
2. She's able to run into you while you're at a club, yet is too busy to plan going to a club with you due to (insert list of excuses she gave you)
3. She tells you when she has free time she spends it with family and friends - meaning, she doesn't see you as potentially being either one of those

Because of these things, there really was no move you could have done that would have magically gotten her to want to do these things. Just 'cause a girl makes out with you a few times doesn't mean she's into you; it could just mean she felt like making out with someone at that moment and you happened to be in the vicinity.

So no, she's not testing you; she's not playing games with you; and she could give a crap about the age difference. She just doesn't have a high interest level in you. Girls that DO have a high interest in you don't flake and don't make their schedule sound like they can't squeeze in a single moment of time to be with you.

So, what would a REAL DJ have done in this situation? Simple: they would have recognized the situation for what it was and walked away. Being a DJ isn't just about scoring with every single chick you run into; it's also about knowing when the interest isn't there and moving on to someone else. Hope this helps!

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

Yeah Harry, it does help, in a general way.

Short defense of myself, to the extent I have one....

After the second date flake, I nexted her (given her low interest being apparent).

About 1-2 months later, she seeks me out at the club. She could have easily avoided me but she found me, started a conversation, complied with my suggestions to get a drink, go smoke, do some dancing...

About 2 weeks later she agrees to meet me at the club, dancing with me all night, makes out with me, asks me if I'd like to go dancing again, agrees to come to my cook out two days later (and then flakes again). This night she admitted that she was reticent to go out with me because of the age issue but that didnt' seem a problem anymore. Also, I forgot to mention, the day after this particular night at the club I ran into her at my local bar while she was with a friend (I almost never see her there and I thought it was too coincidental she just showed up at my regular haunts with a girlfriend...I figured I was being vetted). After a few drinks, she and her friend bounce back to my place for a night cap and at the end we make out some more.

There WAS SOME INTEREST here. Not none, not high...so I did have some chance to work with. It was not as bleak as you are painting it Harry, though I can see where it could be read that way. So, it was not as if I was going on pipe dreams here. I do agree with you that a woman with a high interest level will not play games like this.

But this was more like an up-and-down interest level which I might have been able to keep high with tighter game.

Still, let's not stray off the main point I'd like to make here, and it is not about this particular woman or this particular situation, but what it in general represents.

Sometimes a woman will either say, "Why don't you give me your number?", or "I'd love to do XYZ but I'll have to get back with you when I can check my schedule" or something along those lines. What one should NOT do is say, "Okay, I'll wait for your call" or otherwise imply that. Rather, suggest a date right then and there and tell her once she checks her schedule to let you know if she can make it, or something like that.

These are the lines women use we must be vigilant about because they can either mean one of two things: (1) Like you say, Harry, she is not interested or at least has a low interest level or (2) she's seeing how you handle the situation (yes, some women do this). I believe this girl had about medium interest level and once I allowed her to basically dictate the terms of future interactions it was next to impossible to ratchet it up.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

A girl being flakey in general is not a s-test. She's just not interested.

You think making out is a big deal? I had sex TWICE with a girl who went all flakey on me after a while. She cited her career, but the bottom line is that she lost interest for whatever reason.

It happens, just move on like I did. Women are not exam papers that you can write to pass. They either are interested or they are not.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

A girl being flakey in general is not a s-test. She's just not interested.

You think making out is a big deal? I had sex TWICE with a girl who went all flakey on me after a while. She cited her career, but the bottom line is that she lost interest for whatever reason.

It happens, just move on like I did. Women are not exam papers that you can write to pass. They either are interested or they are not.

No, I don't think making out is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. And, yes, I too have had women flake after a few sex sessions. Dude, I'm no rookie at this stuff....

I think you missed my point... Re-read my first and second post again....

Women are fishing too. Her flake was not a s-test. It was her saying "we should go dance again" (she brought it up) and then later when I suggest we make plans, her saying, "I'm busy a lot,...blah blah blah" and I failed to suggest a day/time/place and then just accepted her frame.

I'm not whining about losing this particular girl.

The issue is that we need to learn what helps, doesn't help, what hurts in keeping a girl on the hook.

She nibbled and then backed off. Then nibbled again and I went in for the hook. Got it momentarily and then she parried back to my attempt to get a confirmed "let's go out on a real date sometime" with "I'm really busy, I'll call you when I can". It was at that moment that night that I could have probably done/said something that translated into, "Yeah, I'm not down with that sort of female game... step into my frame and we'll have more fun than we did tonight." But I failed. My "instincts" are still a bit AFC in those situations, "Yeah, sure, I respect that a busy woman can't figure out her schedule, so, sure, call me when you got time." That failed to keep the vibe of the evening going in a way where I was the man in charge. It put her in charge of future interactions.

This was not a make out with a girl I just met. I met her months before, ran some game, got a number, got her to agree to go out, she flaked twice, I dropped it and moved on. Down the road, she finds me at the club, acts interested, agrees to see me again at the club, does, we dance, have fun, make out, she asks to go out again, I agree... next day she's at my bar, I think vetting me with a friend. They come over for a night cap (not an indicator of low interest, IMO) and when they leave, we make out again, but I get the "I'll call you" response when I say, "We should hang out more."

Let me repeat: I'm trying to get help analyzing how to deal with this situation. Being ready for it. Recognizing the frame steal chicks use. How to turn it back around immediately. Staying dominant, etc. I failed in all these respects.

Had I succeeded would I have landed the fish? Can only speculate. But I do know that where I failed were instances as such that I did not keep her attraction and interest up. THAT'S THE POINT.

There are these little moments in interacting with women where a lot hinges on the turn of events and we will only get better when we recognize them...or, even more importantly, anticipate them coming and are ready with an effective reply.

Again, I fell off my game. My game opened her, got her interest up a little at first, and then she flaked and I'm moved on. Later, she found me, acted interested, hung out, made out, asked to see me again, agreed to see me again, and then failed to follow up probably because I let her -- trying to be the gentlemen, the honest guy, the good guy -- set the terms of the next contact. Yes, a case of one, but I'm sure other guys have gone through the same thing.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

No, I don't think making out is a big deal in the grand scheme of things. And, yes, I too have had women flake after a few sex sessions. Dude, I'm no rookie at this stuff....

I think you missed my point... Re-read my first and second post again....

Women are fishing too. Her flake was not a s-test. It was her saying "we should go dance again" (she brought it up) and then later when I suggest we make plans, her saying, "I'm busy a lot,...blah blah blah" and I failed to suggest a day/time/place and then just accepted her frame.

I'm not whining about losing this particular girl.

The issue is that we need to learn what helps, doesn't help, what hurts in keeping a girl on the hook.

She nibbled and then backed off. Then nibbled again and I went in for the hook. Got it momentarily and then she parried back to my attempt to get a confirmed "let's go out on a real date sometime" with "I'm really busy, I'll call you when I can". It was at that moment that night that I could have probably done/said something that translated into, "Yeah, I'm not down with that sort of female game... step into my frame and we'll have more fun than we did tonight." But I failed. My "instincts" are still a bit AFC in those situations, "Yeah, sure, I respect that a busy woman can't figure out her schedule, so, sure, call me when you got time." That failed to keep the vibe of the evening going in a way where I was the man in charge. It put her in charge of future interactions.

This was not a make out with a girl I just met. I met her months before, ran some game, got a number, got her to agree to go out, she flaked twice, I dropped it and moved on. Down the road, she finds me at the club, acts interested, agrees to see me again at the club, does, we dance, have fun, make out, she asks to go out again, I agree... next day she's at my bar, I think vetting me with a friend. They come over for a night cap (not an indicator of low interest, IMO) and when they leave, we make out again, but I get the "I'll call you" response when I say, "We should hang out more."

Let me repeat: I'm trying to get help analyzing how to deal with this situation. Being ready for it. Recognizing the frame steal chicks use. How to turn it back around immediately. Staying dominant, etc. I failed in all these respects.

Had I succeeded would I have landed the fish? Can only speculate. But I do know that where I failed were instances as such that I did not keep her attraction and interest up. THAT'S THE POINT.

There are these little moments in interacting with women where a lot hinges on the turn of events and we will only get better when we recognize them...or, even more importantly, anticipate them coming and are ready with an effective reply.

Again, I fell off my game. My game opened her, got her interest up a little at first, and then she flaked and I'm moved on. Later, she found me, acted interested, hung out, made out, asked to see me again, agreed to see me again, and then failed to follow up probably because I let her -- trying to be the gentlemen, the honest guy, the good guy -- set the terms of the next contact. Yes, a case of one, but I'm sure other guys have gone through the same thing.

Girls are experts at not giving a sh1t about you and going cold, then acting all happy and excited when they see you again by chance.

I had a girl do this to me. We bumped into each other by accident on the street. This is a girl who didn't return any of my messages and completely ignored my invites. She saw me and practically ran up to hug me. I knew exactly what was going on and I pretended to bend over to tie my shoes on purpose because I really wanted nothing to do with her. I then brushed her off and told her that I had to go. :crackup:

I don't have much patience for the hot & cold treatment from women.

Anyway, I think the girl in your case was infatuated with how you made her feel about herself and not so much with the idea of a relationship between you two. She could have been going through a down and feeling wanted by you gave her a high that she needed. Maybe you going NC disturbed her and she saw the coincidence as a good chance to let herself know that "she's still got it".

Or maybe she's just manic bipolar.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

"Anyway, I think the girl in your case was infatuated with how you made her feel about herself and not so much with the idea of a relationship between you two. She could have been going through a down and feeling wanted by you gave her a high that she needed. Maybe you going NC disturbed her and she saw the coincidence as a good chance to let herself know that "she's still got it".

This makes more sense than some of the others.

Not 100% it is perfectly on target, but it aligns well with the range of possibilities.

Thanks for the non-snarky response.

 

[plate's_empty]

It's a conundrum isn't it. Like a lot of this stuff is.

Been there. She knows you're interested. So, like someone who's out for attention, she'll give you the nibbles, and string you a long. She's an HB8 so she probably runs into a lot of guys she gets attention from. It doesn't seem you're quite at the level where you can go NC or ignore and expect results.

But you are on the cusp, how do you increase her interest level, and keep it until you take her to bang town. I like your initial secondary assessment. That's a good one, re-frame it, take charge, put it on your terms.

I think now all you can do is get lucky. Run into her again. I would play it cool, be friendly, maybe a little flirty if she intstigates, but act as if you're over it, indifferent. Like the possibility of hooking up is a thing of the past. Act as if you gave her a shot, put in some work, but she blew it. Her AW ways finally caught up to her. Now you're not interested.

Also, it wouldn't hurt if the next time you run into her you've got a different HB hanging around you. Either way, if you do run into her, don't hang around too long, have a short convo but end it on your terms, and walk away.

 

[Harry Wilmington]

I used to do sales with my uncle back in the day, and one of the things he drilled into my head when dealing with potential customers - and other people in general - is this: The "yeses" will make you happy and the "no's" will upset you for a little while, but the "maybes" will drive you crazy. So, if you hear someone tell you "maybe," assume it's a "no" so you won't go crazy.

This theory can also be applied to dating, particularly in this situation. You have a girl that's showing you interest one day, then not showing it the next. In short, you have a girl that "maybe" likes you - and it's not a good thing. All she's going to do is make you keep questioning (a) how much like she "maybe" has for you, and (b) the odds that "maybe" she'll sleep with you if you do the right thing.

Perhaps you're forgetting what a girl that has actual interest in you looks like, but this ain't it. She acts happy to see you when she runs into you (interest) but rarely accepts your invitation to take her out (no interest). She agrees to come to a cookout (interest) but then flakes on you (no interest). She makes out with you one minute with no problem (interest) then tells you that your age is the reason she's being so wishy-washy (no interest).

And let's get something else out the way - the age isn't the problem, guy. Katherine Zeta-Jones and Michael Douglas are 25 years apart and she's on his old-@$$ ballz every night. The "age" thing is the excuse she's trying to give you in hopes that you'll go "oh, okay, I guess it won't work then" and stop asking her out. Also, NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE SH!T TEST; they are signs of LOW interest.

To clarify what a sh!t test is, it's something a woman does to a guy that she LIKES to see how he'll handle himself in certain situations. A sh!t test would be something like if you two went to a restaurant and she told you she didn't like the food she ordered, yet didn't ask to send it back. This would be a test to see if YOU would be willing to step it up and tell the waiter to get her something else, i.e. take care of her when she wasn't strong enough to take care of herself. Flaking on a date is NOT a sh!t test, it's a sign of NO interest. Telling you she'll call you when she can go out (as if she has NO control of this) is not a sh!t test, it's her passive-aggressive way of delaying going out with you for as long as possible. Why else would she only see you when you run into her every 2 months???

So yeah... you're not on the cusp of anything with this chick. She's a cool party chick that you'll have a good time with when you happen to run into her, but that's about it. BTW, none of this is meant to discourage you, but rather so that you'll start being more REALISTIC when girls are giving you B.S.. Do you really, REALLY think it would be this hard to take her out if she was REALLY interested?? Don't live in the land of "maybe," man, it'll drive you bonkers...

 

[Zarky]

OP, she wants attention from you, nothing more. For being "no rookie at this stuff," you sure seem like a rookie. No offense but your overconfidence coupled with your extreme lack of game (at least with chicks like this) will prevent you from banging them.

I would have gone NC after she flaked the first time. Only after major wooing by her (if it happened) would I have agreed to start conversing with her again.

Only suckers chase women. Only suckers ask women out again and again after they've shown low interest. She's rejected you 4 times out of 5. WTF? Move on.

You cannot win when a woman has low interest. Read that and understand it. When a woman isn't interested in you, it doesn't matter what you do, you're SOL. So move on. Learning to recognize when to "fold 'em" is key in progressing with women. Because if you don't, you'll waste a sh*t-ton of time on women you have no chance with when you could be focusing on women with whom you do.

So to answer your question:

Is there a winning play? What move would you have made?

When a woman has low interest, the only winning move is not to play.

 

[plate's_empty]

She's a cool party chick that you'll have a good time with when you happen to run into her

As in sales, sometimes the maybe's turn into yes's.

I love these types. You tried, it didn't work, but as long as you don't act like a creep, when they see you, they'll come talk to you. And once you establish you're not falling into the orbiter category, I feel there's always a chance with these ones. It's something she knows, and you know. That's when the real games begin. No pressure either, you can talk to any other girl you want because you too are "just friends".......until next thing you know she's grabbing your arm and pulling you into the bathroom.

Expect it to be a one time romp but, if you play it right and she's somewhat available, she can become a great FB.

 

[Zarky]

As in sales, sometimes the maybe's turn into yes's.

Funny, I read a sales and managerial book called something like "Organizational Psychology" back about 15 years ago and it said that "maybes" should be avoided like the plague because they're enormous time-wasters.

"Noes" are fine because you don't waste resources, "Yeses" are great because you've just made the deal, but "Maybes" should almost always be treated as "Noes" because they eat up the most resources and time and rarely turn into "Yeses."

The book actually came up with figures for salaries, time spent on Maybes, and overall bottom-line figures for pursuing Maybes or treating them all as Noes.

The best strategy, absent an ability to obtain better information immediately, is to treat all Maybes as Noes -- at least in regard to sales, management and marketing -- according to this book whose name I forget.

Ever since reading that book I've treated female Maybes as Noes. It's extremely empowering because I either get a Yes or I'm moving on to one. I never waste time. I certainly miss out on the few Maybes that would turn to Yeses but the time saved by not pursuing those more than makes up for it.

Any time a woman gives me a maybe, I say, "I don't do maybes" and I GTFO. She either comes straight immediately or I never hear from her again. Fine by me.

 

[plate's_empty]

Funny, I read a sales and managerial book called something like "Organizational Psychology" back about 15 years ago and it said that "maybes" should be avoided like the plague because they're enormous time-wasters.

"Noes" are fine because you don't waste resources, "Yeses" are great because you've just made the deal, but "Maybes" should almost always be treated as "Noes" because they eat up the most resources and time and rarely turn into "Yeses."

The book actually came up with figures for salaries, time spent on Maybes, and overall bottom-line figures for pursuing Maybes or treating them all as Noes.

The best strategy, absent an ability to obtain better information immediately, is to treat all Maybes as Noes -- at least in regard to sales, management and marketing -- according to this book whose name I forget.

Ever since reading that book I've treated female Maybes as Noes. It's extremely empowering because I either get a Yes or I'm moving on to one. I never waste time. I certainly miss out on the few Maybes that would turn to Yeses but the time saved by not pursuing those more than makes up for it.

Any time a woman gives me a maybe, I say, "I don't do maybes" and I GTFO. She either comes straight immediately or I never hear from her again. Fine by me.

I'm in sales. Sometimes No's turn into yes's, yes's turn into maybes, maybe's turn into go fvck yourself. Depends on the situation and the type of sale.

I've treated female Maybes as Noes. It's extremely empowering because I either get a Yes or I'm moving on to one. I never waste time.

^^^ agreed here Zarky. I think that's a point a few posters are trying to get across.

Sure, erase the digits. Move on, give no more effort or time or emotion. My point is, there's always a chance.

Who knows what this chick's going through at the moment. Maybe she really is on her period, or she really is trying to get over a break up and is emotionally damaged. Or.... she's really into shat play at the moment and you don't seem like a good candidate.

You catch em at the right time or place it could be a totally different story.

Turning a once maybe or a no into a yes is also very empowering.

 

[Zarky]

I've had 2 maybes turn into yeses but that was only after I "nexted" them. I said my "I don't do maybes" line, walked out, and then about 2-3 weeks later the women contacted me and basically assured me that they'd put out if we got together.

However, I think both of those were because they were expecting me to woo them until their maybes turned into yeses and instead I gave them a no of my own.

So I agree, if you next a woman and later she comes running back and basically goes "YES YES YES" then you should let her back in. But only under those circumstances.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

Turning a once maybe or a no into a yes is also very empowering.

With the quality of women going down the sh1tter, very few women are worth the time and effort to even bother though.

It is like spending $300 repairing a $400 appliance that is 10 years old.

I'm with Zarky with the moving on part if you don't get positive feedback right away. I have not met a single woman worth waiting on in my life. Ever.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

It's a conundrum isn't it. Like a lot of this stuff is.

Been there. She knows you're interested. So, like someone who's out for attention, she'll give you the nibbles, and string you a long. She's an HB8 so she probably runs into a lot of guys she gets attention from. It doesn't seem you're quite at the level where you can go NC or ignore and expect results.

But you are on the cusp, how do you increase her interest level, and keep it until you take her to bang town. I like your initial secondary assessment. That's a good one, re-frame it, take charge, put it on your terms.

I think now all you can do is get lucky. Run into her again. I would play it cool, be friendly, maybe a little flirty if she intstigates, but act as if you're over it, indifferent. Like the possibility of hooking up is a thing of the past. Act as if you gave her a shot, put in some work, but she blew it. Her AW ways finally caught up to her. Now you're not interested.

Also, it wouldn't hurt if the next time you run into her you've got a different HB hanging around you. Either way, if you do run into her, don't hang around too long, have a short convo but end it on your terms, and walk away.

I haven't finished reading the response thread, but this is basically where my head is at. Definitely have moved on... and again, no beef here, but my post was less about this girl and more about situations like this and what happens when game slips, especially in the early stages.

Anyway, I with you on this one.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

I used to do sales with my uncle back in the day, and one of the things he drilled into my head when dealing with potential customers - and other people in general - is this: The "yeses" will make you happy and the "no's" will upset you for a little while, but the "maybes" will drive you crazy. So, if you hear someone tell you "maybe," assume it's a "no" so you won't go crazy.

This theory can also be applied to dating, particularly in this situation. You have a girl that's showing you interest one day, then not showing it the next. In short, you have a girl that "maybe" likes you - and it's not a good thing. All she's going to do is make you keep questioning (a) how much like she "maybe" has for you, and (b) the odds that "maybe" she'll sleep with you if you do the right thing.

Perhaps you're forgetting what a girl that has actual interest in you looks like, but this ain't it. She acts happy to see you when she runs into you (interest) but rarely accepts your invitation to take her out (no interest). She agrees to come to a cookout (interest) but then flakes on you (no interest). She makes out with you one minute with no problem (interest) then tells you that your age is the reason she's being so wishy-washy (no interest).

And let's get something else out the way - the age isn't the problem, guy. Katherine Zeta-Jones and Michael Douglas are 25 years apart and she's on his old-@$$ ballz every night. The "age" thing is the excuse she's trying to give you in hopes that you'll go "oh, okay, I guess it won't work then" and stop asking her out. Also, NONE OF THESE THINGS ARE SH!T TEST; they are signs of LOW interest.

To clarify what a sh!t test is, it's something a woman does to a guy that she LIKES to see how he'll handle himself in certain situations. A sh!t test would be something like if you two went to a restaurant and she told you she didn't like the food she ordered, yet didn't ask to send it back. This would be a test to see if YOU would be willing to step it up and tell the waiter to get her something else, i.e. take care of her when she wasn't strong enough to take care of herself. Flaking on a date is NOT a sh!t test, it's a sign of NO interest. Telling you she'll call you when she can go out (as if she has NO control of this) is not a sh!t test, it's her passive-aggressive way of delaying going out with you for as long as possible. Why else would she only see you when you run into her every 2 months???

So yeah... you're not on the cusp of anything with this chick. She's a cool party chick that you'll have a good time with when you happen to run into her, but that's about it. BTW, none of this is meant to discourage you, but rather so that you'll start being more REALISTIC when girls are giving you B.S.. Do you really, REALLY think it would be this hard to take her out if she was REALLY interested?? Don't live in the land of "maybe," man, it'll drive you bonkers...

Yup... spot on.

Thanks Harry, good stuff. Not hung up on this girl, just ruminating on some ways to think about situations and how to deal with them and what I did well or poorly in this situation. Not a oneitis, got some plates, go out, game with regularity, etc. My goal was to point out where I failed and trying to recognize such road bumps/serves in the future.

 

[HalfPUAHalfAFC]

OP, she wants attention from you, nothing more. For being "no rookie at this stuff," you sure seem like a rookie. No offense but your overconfidence coupled with your extreme lack of game (at least with chicks like this) will prevent you from banging them.

I would have gone NC after she flaked the first time. Only after major wooing by her (if it happened) would I have agreed to start conversing with her again.

Only suckers chase women. Only suckers ask women out again and again after they've shown low interest. She's rejected you 4 times out of 5. WTF? Move on.

You cannot win when a woman has low interest. Read that and understand it. When a woman isn't interested in you, it doesn't matter what you do, you're SOL. So move on. Learning to recognize when to "fold 'em" is key in progressing with women. Because if you don't, you'll waste a sh*t-ton of time on women you have no chance with when you could be focusing on women with whom you do.

So to answer your question:

When a woman has low interest, the only winning move is not to play.

That's cool, man. It would seem that way if this story was all there was to my current line-up/game/dates, etc. I've had several woman on dates, in and out of my bed, a few chasing me, since the day I met this woman I wrote about above. So, it's not like this chick has been the sole focus of my anything. I was just trying to think about how the interaction dynamics I did through her worked and didn't work and what can be learned about it in the future. I tried to stress that before. I'm not really worried about still landing this chick.