How to stay sharp in an LTR

[ebracer05]

Hey guys, I was reading over some things I have written over the last few years and and am feeling like I've grown a bit stale. When I first got here, I had some legitimate desire to become a better man and in some ways I believe I have. The information I took away from here drove me to do things I would have never dreamed I would do, like cold approaching and even carrying a hidden mic on me to review the approaches!

Anyways, here I am in an LTR. The problem isn't necessarily that I am not happy... I love my girl, and I mean that sincerely. I do feel at times though kind of like what Pook said... that the Great Catch doesn't want to be caged. At this point, I feel like I would be giving up more than I would be gaining to leave my LTR.

I have also considered though that if I were to leave, I feel like I've become a duller man. I honestly don't even know where I would begin looking for another girl and feel like my game is down to nothing. I also feel like this should be a warning to me that I am not living up to my potential and if I don't start, things in my life will begin to suffer.

I don't feel like I could go out and start cold approaching again and retain any integrity, so what are some things you can do in an LTR that sharpen the saw of your masculinity?

 

[donking]

you're in med school right?

are you still working out and keeping fit?

 

[PlayHer Man]

Hey guys, I was reading over some things I have written over the last few years and and am feeling like I've grown a bit stale. When I first got here, I had some legitimate desire to become a better man and in some ways I believe I have. The information I took away from here drove me to do things I would have never dreamed I would do, like cold approaching and even carrying a hidden mic on me to review the approaches!

Anyways, here I am in an LTR. The problem isn't necessarily that I am not happy... I love my girl, and I mean that sincerely. I do feel at times though kind of like what Pook said... that the Great Catch doesn't want to be caged. At this point, I feel like I would be giving up more than I would be gaining to leave my LTR.

I have also considered though that if I were to leave, I feel like I've become a duller man. I honestly don't even know where I would begin looking for another girl and feel like my game is down to nothing. I also feel like this should be a warning to me that I am not living up to my potential and if I don't start, things in my life will begin to suffer.

I don't feel like I could go out and start cold approaching again and retain any integrity, so what are some things you can do in an LTR that sharpen the saw of your masculinity?

Focus strongly on what I put in BOLD above. THAT my friend is exactly what every woman wants. In order to feel secure.. she needs to know you won't (or can't) just walk outside and replace her. So overtime she molds, "domesticates" and castrates you into a man who believes he can't do any better. This is accomplished by gradually lowering your self-esteem over time.

How do women do it? Its so slow and gradual the man doesn't even notice it. She slowly wears you down little by little. I've seen many of my male friends who were once alpha turn beta in a LTR. They hang out less, engage in more White Knighting, etc.

If you read Backbreaker's posts over the time he has been on SoSuave you'll see the gradual emergence of vaginal values and beta faggotry. He is married and over time his woman has softened him.

Women succeed at this because they do it so slowly.

In short.. your woman uses FEAR to keep you. Fear is really the only emotion that makes men "fall in line". Read your posts again bro. Its full of FEAR. You FEAR you can't pull women like before. You FEAR you have more to lose by leaving your LTR than staying in it.

Remember --> The minute you FEAR losing a particular women is the minute you become her slave.

My advice? Do what makes you happy. Some men are happy being ruled by a woman. Others are not (like myself). Its up to you.

 

[Atom Smasher]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PlayHer Man again."

 

[ebracer05]

In short.. your woman uses FEAR to keep you. Fear is really the only emotion that makes men "fall in line". Read your posts again bro. Its full of FEAR. You FEAR you can't pull women like before. You FEAR you have more to lose by leaving your LTR than staying in it.

Remember --> The minute you FEAR losing a particular women is the minute you become her slave.

My advice? Do what makes you happy. Some men are happy being ruled by a woman. Others are not (like myself). Its up to you.

There should be another way though. Why does it have to be so binary, that a committed relationship with a woman = slavery, and the only path to freedom is to live the life of a relational vagrant?

I do feel that I gain from my relationship... I love the girl, she helps me, she does things for me, she defers to me, she satisfies me, she does what it is that a woman is supposed to do. I don't feel like I am henpecked or under submission... but I do feel like I have lost some of my edge. I feel like I am becoming more beta. And it scares me to think that this happened as quickly as it did, probably within a year. And yea, there is an element of fear that I don't want to leave her... whenever you value something in your life, you don't want to lose it.

My life used to be significantly more interesting, I went rock climbing... haven't done that in a long time.

I was on my university's competitive ballroom dancing team. Haven't done that in about 2 years now.

I was the lead singer of a rock band... and I haven't written or recorded a new song in probably about a year.

I had a group of guys I ran with... not anymore.

I'd take long hikes and go camping... again, not anymore.

What do I do now? I am the pianist and bass player at a mega church (that's actually pretty cool), I still work out routinely, and I study a lot. I didn't get in to my professional program. I technically started another band but it isn't going anywhere at all. I'm still living at my parents house. My dead end job has cut my hours. Actually, I think I'm kind of depressed rather than afraid. The immediate answer to my problem seems to be that I need to get a life, but I just don't feel like I have the energy.

But back on point - why does it have to be so mutually exclusive? Why does a relationship have to equal being ruled by a woman?

 

[PlayHer Man]

There should be another way though. Why does it have to be so binary, that a committed relationship with a woman = slavery, and the only path to freedom is to live the life of a relational vagrant?

I do feel that I gain from my relationship... I love the girl, she helps me, she does things for me, she defers to me, she satisfies me, she does what it is that a woman is supposed to do. I don't feel like I am henpecked or under submission... but I do feel like I have lost some of my edge. I feel like I am becoming more beta. And it scares me to think that this happened as quickly as it did, probably within a year. And yea, there is an element of fear that I don't want to leave her... whenever you value something in your life, you don't want to lose it.

My life used to be significantly more interesting, I went rock climbing... haven't done that in a long time.

I was on my university's competitive ballroom dancing team. Haven't done that in about 2 years now.

I was the lead singer of a rock band... and I haven't written or recorded a new song in probably about a year.

I had a group of guys I ran with... not anymore.

I'd take long hikes and go camping... again, not anymore.

What do I do now? I am the pianist and bass player at a mega church (that's actually pretty cool), I still work out routinely, and I study a lot. I didn't get in to my professional program. I technically started another band but it isn't going anywhere at all. I'm still living at my parents house. My dead end job has cut my hours. Actually, I think I'm kind of depressed rather than afraid. The immediate answer to my problem seems to be that I need to get a life, but I just don't feel like I have the energy.

But back on point - why does it have to be so mutually exclusive? Why does a relationship have to equal being ruled by a woman?

It doesn't have to be "slavery". If you're not married and don't have kids, you're not a slave because there is no legal way for anyone to force you to do anything.

If you're happy with your woman that's great. However, if you can't live the life you want to live because you fear losing her.. then you are indeed a slave EMOTIONALLY.

Here is what you SHOULD do --> Live as you please.

If she loves you and she is right for you.. she will accept who you are and the lifestyle you want to live. If she will abandon you or leave you for engaging in the activities that bring you happiness.. then she wants you enslaved under her thumb. Simple as that.

Its not always "all or nothing". But with some women it is. The only way to find out is to do what you want and see if she sticks around. If she doesn't.. then she was always out for control rather than love. Do you have the balls to find out?

 

[Atom Smasher]

A committed relationship does not have to equal slavery. However, the relationship must be managed by the man. Almost all men give up management of the relationship to the woman.

He finds himself getting comfortable and lazy as he allows the woman to take on more of the mommy role. There's no reason to go out and conquer the world anymore because he's safe in mommy's arms.

Please elaborate on how you define the "edge" that you're losing. Are you losing the edge with her (in terms of influence) or with outside activities? Both? Something else? See if you can define it a little better and perhaps we will be able to give you some insight.

Also, please define in real terms how you perceive that you're becoming more beta. Let's see if we can shine a little light on the situation and maybe help you gain back your perspective.

 

[j0504s]

Same as AS

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to PlayHer Man again.

There is some serious gold in this post...bookmarked...

 

[BeDJ]

1) Do not live together.
2) Establish her feminine responsibilities (cooking, cleaning, etc.) and yours (heavy lifting, automotive, etc.)
3) Go out with your friends whenever you have the chance.
4) Continue to sharpen your skills and develop new ones.
5) Be EXCEPTIONALLY weary of her friends, they have more influence than you think.
6) Be flirty with other women.
7) Stay active and in shape, expect her to do the same.
8) Do not abandon SoSuave.

It's good that you have obtained a long term prospect, but do not fall into the mindset that you have 'won' her. It's only the beginning, Game and DJ skills are more necessary than before. Don't think in terms of keeping her, establish the relationship as what she offers you. Innately, she understands that it's her responsibility to nurture that relationship. It's natural that women tend to care more for the relationship, use that to your advantage. The moment you do, your ability to control the relationship as a man is lost.

Her ex will most likely show up down the line and she will entertain the idea of having lunch with him. Set your foot down the moment she asks you. This is the biggest indicator the respect and power you have in the relationship.

 

[ebracer05]

Please elaborate on how you define the "edge" that you're losing. Are you losing the edge with her (in terms of influence) or with outside activities? Both? Something else? See if you can define it a little better and perhaps we will be able to give you some insight.

Also, please define in real terms how you perceive that you're becoming more beta. Let's see if we can shine a little light on the situation and maybe help you gin back your perspective.

I feel like I have lost a lot of my passion for life. Like I said, there were a lot of things that I used to do... granted, I think I did too much and did not give enough consideration to my studies and other responsibilities, and that is why I'm in the situation with professional school that I'm in now. But that isn't the point... the point is, I don't even feel that much of a desire to do anything.

After I get off of work Friday nights, I don't even feel like doing anything. I have probably gone out 2 Friday nights this year... I used to go out every single Thursday night and sometimes Friday and Saturday nights.

I feel like a man should be sharp with a zest for life... trying new things, keeping busy, living rather than just existing. And I feel dull in my life, dull in my spirit. This seems easier to fix because I'm probably depressed. I just need to force myself to go out and start to live again and deal with the demons that brought me to this point.

Why I feel like I'm acting beta? This is painful to address. I feel like I've done as you said, started to look at her as a mother figure. I've become lazy and complacent. And really, I feel a sense of terror that she will leave me. At this point, I do not believe that is really going to happen, but I shouldn't be feeling this way or acting like this! I have noticed this beta behavior in my voice tone with her... it's very high and sing songy, and my word choices are more juvenile. I feel like I need a lot of physical contact from her, like always holding her hand, touching her, ect. I feel like I need a certain amount of validation from her during the day, like that she sends me a text saying that she loves me. I feel needy, and it scares me because I'm not sure how much of this I have telegraphed to her... I'm sure at least some.

I was talking to my dad last night and told him I feel like I've become something I promised myself I would not... a man that is scared of his woman, where it is easier to let things go and not address them than to risk her anger.

That's really painful.

I talked with her last night about some issues between us, but I am beginning to think that words are not the solution, and that what is the solution is her feelings and how I am able to impact them. Right now, I do not think I am very well at all.

I feel bad personally though... I feel like I have failed at life because I did not meet my goals. I did not achieve and am a loser living in my parents house in my late 20's. I feel like I am in the process of failing at my relationship because well... you read what I just said. If I have a bad mindset and feel this way, I don't think I can elicit anything different in her.

I have some things I need to attend to right now though and need to go.

 

[BeDJ]

I have a feeling that you sense she is losing interest in you and the relationship. She probably felt that way loooonnnng before you noticed. You're fighting the battle from a defensive standpoint because you fear losing her. Damage control is your primary objective and that's a losing strategy in any relationship. This may be the beta aspect you may be trying to address. The fear of losing her is making you revert to your beta ways of trying to keep her. However, you realize the more you push, the more she gets pushed away. You know it will not work, but it's the only strategy you feel you can deploy.

You failed to establish your own kingdom and you see it crumbling around you. Instead of using your resources to strengthen and rebuild your castle, you are protecting the queen at all cost.

You think your woman can bring happiness to your otherwise disappointing life.

 

[Colossus]

1) Do not live together.
2) Establish her feminine responsibilities (cooking, cleaning, etc.) and yours (heavy lifting, automotive, etc.)
3) Go out with your friends whenever you have the chance.
4) Continue to sharpen your skills and develop new ones.
5) Be EXCEPTIONALLY weary of her friends, they have more influence than you think.
6) Be flirty with other women.
7) Stay active and in shape, expect her to do the same.
8) Do not abandon SoSuave.

It's good that you have obtained a long term prospect, but do not fall into the mindset that you have 'won' her. It's only the beginning, Game and DJ skills are more necessary than before.

I could quote a lot of the posts in this thread, but this is the most pertinent and practical.

I highly recommend reading Athol Kay's Married Man Sex Life Primer. It's a $10 eBook. He pulls from all different corners of game---PUAs, manosphere writers, some forums, and his life experience. The focus is married and LTR game, which is just as, if not MORE so, important as good dating game.

Just about all the advice you are getting here is useful if you place it in proper context and take the aggregate of all our opinions. SoSuave has a decidedly anti-marriage leaning, and mostly for good reason. However, SoSuave also self-selects for men who have had terrible experience with it or are predisposed to be against monogamy in the first place. Just something to keep in mind.

I think your loss of frame with your girl is a reflection of you not being in your element as a Man right now. You said it yourself---you are living at home, your professional goals have stalled, and your financial picture is looking grim at the moment. This is affecting you Inner Game and she is picking up on not only the obvious material factors but your lack of internal forward direction.

And it's ok---to a point. One beta moment or time period will not necessarily destroy your relationship. These things happen to men and we cant be swinging-d!ck Alphas at all times. Life happens.

I would start with a tangible list of daily "to-do's" that you can work on to achieve better frame. Most of this will be EXTRINSIC to the relationship, meaning it will involve you optimizing areas of YOUR life, and letting the relationship fall into place. That's how the natural order works. I cant speak to all the interpersonal particulars of your relationship with her, but I can tell you that if you adopt a simple and tangible to-do list of Male improvement, things will only get better. You may have a good female, but even good females are replaceable. It's one thing to not be desiring of bachelorhood again, but it's another entirely to fear it.

Also I PM'ed you.

 

[speed dawg]

ebracer05!

Hey man, I cannot give you better advice than the guys in this thread already have given you. I don't always agree with PlayHer Man, but in general, he is correct on the issue that MOST women try to slowly take power from their man. They don't even know why, they just do it because men allow them to do it. The secret is not to let it happen.

The reason I post here, is that I went through EXACTLY what you did, about a year ago. Go search for mine and Squirrel's posts (where did he go, by the way?). A lot of no direction, wondering what's going on, what am I doing in life, etc. But guess what? All during this time, I have been wearing my wife out (sex). It's never been better. You'd think my confidence would be down, but at least it doesn't seem to be.

I guess what I am telling you.....learn from what you're going through right now. Examine yourself....where you live, what you do, what you may want to do.....and where you want to do these things. These are not easy answers and take time to examine.

The great thing is that just recently I have figured my sh1t out, and I can't wait to get on with life. I can only hope you experience the same. All I can say is that your confidence in certain areas is not always tied to your job or whatever other BS men invent about themselves in their own mind/from women/advertising/matrix/etc.

PM with questions you may have.

 

[ebracer05]

Ebracer.....You say you are happy, but you feel like you are stagnating. Then you further elaborate that you are beginning to slowly cede power to her in the relationship (not exactly your words, but clearly in that direction).

My question to you is, are you ceding power because you feel you could lose her?

...

Inner Game is all about the confidence. In this case, the confidence of knowing that where you are in life is a pretty damn good place to be, regardless of what $hitty things that may happen to you (including for example just being dumped by a girl you love).

What you have, are doubts about whether you can do better than what you have found. Now this isn't to suggest that you should go out and look, but what I highly recommend is to always have side-dishes who are ready to pounce should they find you available. Often that means just having hobbies, social activities or constantly meeting new people. Think about some things you have always wanted to do, and investigate one or two of them. This should get you on the right path to getting your inner game further developed.

I don't actually think my problem is questioning whether I can do better. I think that to a point, it is a stupid and feminine mindset because let's face it... everyone could probably always "do better" if they were willing to examine every woman on the planet. I think it is a better question to ask "does it work", "does she fit", "am I happy", ect. Insofar as I can tell, the answer to all of those questions is yes.

She really hasn't done anything wrong here. We had some housekeeping issues to address like what we're going to do since I didn't get in to my program, where we go from here, ect. I only brought her up because I am aware I have been ceding my frame, power, and management responsibilities of our relationship and I know that is the wrong thing to do. As I become aware of this, it scares me I think because I spent so much of my life being lousy with women and I am starting to feel the things I have felt during those times... it's like a bad deja vu. So far, this has been feedbacking on itself and just making my inner state worse... so it needs to stop.

It has also occurred to me that you and Colossus are right that being beta from time to time is not the end of the world. Life happens, sometimes things suck, sometimes a man gets discouraged. If she cannot weather a storm in life with me and decides to fly the coop, I am better for it. For an LTR - I require a woman who is loyal and committed enough to endure the bad times in life. They come part and parcel with the good.

1) Do not live together. - We don't

2) Establish her feminine responsibilities (cooking, cleaning, etc.) and yours (heavy lifting, automotive, etc.) - This is the way it is.

3) Go out with your friends whenever you have the chance. - I need to start doing this.

4) Continue to sharpen your skills and develop new ones. - This too

5) Be EXCEPTIONALLY weary of her friends, they have more influence than you think. - Unless her friends are all the most two faced people I have ever met, they really like me. They want us to get married, pushed for us to start dating, all that jazz. Many of them are mutual friends I see often and while I have been surprised before, I would be really surprised if there was a conspiracy against me here.

6) Be flirty with other women. - I have a hard time with this because I feel like I would be sacrificing a portion of my integrity flirting with other women when I have an outstanding commitment to one at present. That being said, I get attention from women and my gf knows about it. I had an 8 give me her number while I was at work last week.

7) Stay active and in shape, expect her to do the same. - Check... I'm in the best shape of my life since maybe high school. She is also in very good shape.

8) Do not abandon SoSuave. - Check

I think your loss of frame with your girl is a reflection of you not being in your element as a Man right now. You said it yourself---you are living at home, your professional goals have stalled, and your financial picture is looking grim at the moment. This is affecting you Inner Game and she is picking up on not only the obvious material factors but your lack of internal forward direction.

And it's ok---to a point. One beta moment or time period will not necessarily destroy your relationship. These things happen to men and we cant be swinging-d!ck Alphas at all times. Life happens.

I would start with a tangible list of daily "to-do's" that you can work on to achieve better frame. Most of this will be EXTRINSIC to the relationship, meaning it will involve you optimizing areas of YOUR life, and letting the relationship fall into place. That's how the natural order works. I cant speak to all the interpersonal particulars of your relationship with her, but I can tell you that if you adopt a simple and tangible to-do list of Male improvement, things will only get better. You may have a good female, but even good females are replaceable. It's one thing to not be desiring of bachelorhood again, but it's another entirely to fear it.

You are exactly right about my frame. I will read the book you suggested. And your to-do list is a very good idea... I will implement that first thing tomorrow.

 

[donking]

Having read your post from a year ago, http://sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1938499, if your dream is

"to be an established surgeon, make some fantastic advancement in my field... a legit artificial heart, some sort of invention or new therapy... a technique to regenerate necrotic cardiac tissue (I want to be a heart surgeon BTW)..."

consider applying to a masters program as a stepping stone to a MD or DO program. It may take you longer to get where you want to go, but you can get there eventually as long as you are making progress. A lot of people do masters in public health or masters in science or engineering before going to med school.

That said, I just graduated from med school this summer, and like me, you may realize that medicine is not all it's cracked up to be.

Look at where you were one year ago and where you are now, are you better than you were then, and are you on the right track?

 

[Colossus]

That said, I just graduated from med school this summer, and like me, you may realize that medicine is not all it's cracked up to be.

True story. I have never for a second regretted becoming a PA over an MD, but even as a mid-level it can be a stressful career. I think the biggest perk for medical providers is still salary and a sense of satisfaction in treating physical problems, but there are a lot of cons I didn't fully realize until I started working.

(Not to dissuade you, eBracer. Just one man's opinion.)

 

[yyc12]

Remember --> The minute you FEAR losing a particular women is the minute you become her slave.

^^^ this times a billion or so, :woo: .