How to help 'little sister-like' friend not fall for the bad boy?

[SmoothTalker]

Hey, a question for you all. This is a bit different from the typical discussion here, but I think in a lot of ways the wisdom here may be useful.

Before I start I need to clarify because I am certain the "Captain save-a-ho/don't be jealous/you secretly want to **** her remarks are coming. I do not have feelings for this girl. We dated very briefly months ago, only had sex once and it was not too great. Nothing terrible happened, there was just not that spark). It did not work out for a variety of reasons, and we have both since moved on. I currently have a new girlfriend who I am very happy with at the moment. However since moving on we have become very good friends due to similar personalities and senses of humour, and many shared hobbies. Because she is younger than me by almost four years, even though she's not exactly a kid (18), I see her almost as a little sister.

So, here's the thing. After a string of flops with other guys after me, she recently met a guy online and seems to have fallen for him pretty hard. To put it simply this guy is bad news: Messed up childhood, criminal record (including getting arrested less than a week ago), does and deals drugs, has hands dirty with stolen merchandise, etc. No education or ambition to get one whereas she is a university student. He also seems unstable (she complains about drastically changing personality daily).

The problem is that even though she's generally shown herself to be a smart and picky person in the past, she's fallen hard for this guy. Not too surprising really, it's the cliche story of the good girl falling form the bad boy from the wrong side of the tracks. Objectively she knows and has admitted pursuing a relationship with him is stupid, but when it comes to it she can't resist the badboy allure and is convinced she can change him (honestly, can it be any more textbook?)

To me it seems like the setup for years of abuse at worst or just being miserable with a total loser at best. At the end of the day while we may strive to emulate certain traits of a badboy because they are attractive, we also try to have our **** together. He does not. So, as a trusted friend, how can I help her snap out of it?

How do you break the bad boy allure an reveal the failure beneath?

 

[Scars]

I hate to say it, but you can't. Woman don't think with logic or rationality. In her mind she KNOWS he is bad news. She sounds like a smart girl. I don't think she's looked over the fact this guy is a criminal. But at the end of the day it boils down to how he makes her FEEL. Obviously this guy is doing something right on that side of the spectrum. As long as he keeps making her feel happy, and wanted she is going to stay with him. She will look past everything else because she is thinking with her heart and not her head.

I know it's not really what you wanted to hear, but also remember that part of life is making mistakes and learning the lessons that accompany it.

I have little-sister like friends as well and I know it's a hard pill to swallow. But there really is only so much you can do.

 

[falconslax89]

you trying to save her will probably only make her want him more. how long have you known this girl to develope such a strong bond? not trying to sound like a **** but chances are you wont even be friends with this girl in a few years. it would be different if this were actually your sister, but shes not. its not your place to save her from this guy. let her learn the lesson herself. its fine to offer your advice but if she doesnt want it theres nothing you can do man. your heart might be in the right place but i wouldnt get too involved.

 

[f283000]

Before I start I need to clarify because I am certain the "Captain save-a-ho/don't be jealous/you secretly want to **** her remarks are coming.

You forgot c*** blocker which is what you are brother!!!! :nono:

First of all it's none of your f**** business. I just had to be the first to say it. If this was your sister or a relative than I guess you could say something but this is an ex.

Seriously what can you do? You telling her how hes not good for her will only make her more attracted to him! Women are the weaker vessels, women gravitate towards evil they can't help it. They are naturally wicked.

You trying to stop him from getting her is like you trying to stop the titanic from sinking. The only dirty tactic I can think of is making him appear "creepy." Women hate creepy guys and would be the opposite of the probably "cool" image she has of him.

I just can't ignore the source of this whole mess which is YOU KEEPING CONTACT WITH AN EX! Men and their ex's are not meant to keep in touch it only leads to drama.

I never kept a cell phone, facebook, myspace, deleted and threw away any pictures of my exes and myself and just erased them from my life. Having female friends or keeping in touch with an ex is not the way I chose to live my life.

 

[SmoothTalker]

I suppose I technically am ****blocking.

However this guy is not a friend of mine, a buddy, or even somebody I respect. As such I owe him **** all and have no problem with ****blocking him if that's what this is.

As for your no contact with an ex, congrats on finding the way to live YOUR life, but we disagree.

In some cases where it's messy no contact makes perfect sense. Here, where it was a brief fling with no hurt feelings or lasting emotions, it would be entirely stupid to cut out a FRIEND who's company I really enjoy purely because we made out half a dozen times and had sex once.

I am not approaching her as an ex but as a friend, our 'relationship' is pretty much forgotten by both of us. The only reason I even brought that up is to pre-empt the friendzone comments.

Also as for none of my business - perhaps. But our relationship is such that in the past we've come to each other for perspective and generally valued the advice. Sometimes we do need an outside perspective - one of my biggest peeves with my circle of friends is that when I was with my (confirmed ) BPD ex for years and beyond miserable, they all tried to be supportive instead of encouraging me to dump the *****.

 

[f283000]

Right. You chose to live your life the wrong way. Instead of worrying about being happy in the relationship you're in you are playing dr phil and a captain save a ho with your ex. You are trying to stop your ex from getting porked by some a**hole when you know if this one doesn't get her some other a**hole will. Sorry that's young college age girls for you.

 

[SmoothTalker]

I don't need to worry about being happy in my relationship - at least at the moment that's taking care of itself because I found a pretty solid match thanks.

Stop fixating on the fact that she is technically my ex, it is a non-issue.
If you must keep responding here, then pretend we never dated and she is purely a non-sexual close female friend (and while they don't exist in your life, for many people including myself they can and do provided there is no sexual attraction.)

I also don't care if some '*******' ****s her, it's really not about jealousy here, why can't you process that? '*******s' have ****ed her since me as far as I know and that doesn't bother me one bit because I've been getting much better sex with my new girl anyway.

See most non-jaded people have this thing where they just don't like watching friends **** up their life. Go figure.

 

[f283000]

Ok brother how about we reverse the roles with this scenario. Let's say you have fallen for a totally hot hb 9 who you can't stop obsessing over who happens to be into you as well. She has the most amazing ass and boobs you have ever come across...but she is a total b|tch and a shady character. Your ex who is a good friend of yours tries to tell you not to mess with her because shes shady.

Now you have the opportunity to mess with an hb 9 who has a reputation of being shady. Are you going to listen to your ex and not mess around with a woman you can't stop thinking about just because of what your ex is telling you?

So you see how silly it is when you reverse the roles? To you it sounds reasonable but when you reverse the roles you know damn well no guy here would turn down sex with a really hot girl just because some female friend of his tells him not to. Men think with their ****s it's even less likely to turn away a guy from a female.

When there's animal attraction it's hard to stop the inevitable remember that.

 

[Trader]

Hey, a question for you all. This is a bit different from the typical discussion here, but I think in a lot of ways the wisdom here may be useful.

Before I start I need to clarify because I am certain the "Captain save-a-ho/don't be jealous/you secretly want to **** her remarks are coming. I do not have feelings for this girl. We dated very briefly months ago, only had sex once and it was not too great. Nothing terrible happened, there was just not that spark). It did not work out for a variety of reasons, and we have both since moved on. I currently have a new girlfriend who I am very happy with at the moment. However since moving on we have become very good friends due to similar personalities and senses of humour, and many shared hobbies. Because she is younger than me by almost four years, even though she's not exactly a kid (18), I see her almost as a little sister.

So, here's the thing. After a string of flops with other guys after me, she recently met a guy online and seems to have fallen for him pretty hard. To put it simply this guy is bad news: Messed up childhood, criminal record (including getting arrested less than a week ago), does and deals drugs, has hands dirty with stolen merchandise, etc. No education or ambition to get one whereas she is a university student. He also seems unstable (she complains about drastically changing personality daily).

The problem is that even though she's generally shown herself to be a smart and picky person in the past, she's fallen hard for this guy. Not too surprising really, it's the cliche story of the good girl falling form the bad boy from the wrong side of the tracks. Objectively she knows and has admitted pursuing a relationship with him is stupid, but when it comes to it she can't resist the badboy allure and is convinced she can change him (honestly, can it be any more textbook?)

To me it seems like the setup for years of abuse at worst or just being miserable with a total loser at best. At the end of the day while we may strive to emulate certain traits of a badboy because they are attractive, we also try to have our **** together. He does not. So, as a trusted friend, how can I help her snap out of it?

How do you break the bad boy allure an reveal the failure beneath?

That is the utter hypocrisy with many of the posters here. They strive to be bad boys, but if their mother, or younger sister were to *get it on* with another bad boy, they would try steer her away.

So this translates into: 'I don't want my mother or younger sister to be with a type of guy...that is exactly like who I am.'

So you *bad boy* wannabes - looks like you are not proud of what you have become.

Cheers!

 

[Igetit!]

In some cases where it's messy no contact makes perfect sense. Here, where it was a brief fling with no hurt feelings or lasting emotions, it would be entirely stupid to cut out a FRIEND who's company I really enjoy purely because we made out half a dozen times and had sex once.

The others are right man,you can't save this girl. The reason why is because this guy isn't the problem,the girl is. Like F283000 said,if you were to take this guy out of the equation,and another "jerk" were to show up,whatever it is INSIDE THIS GIRL that makes her think she can change people would be activated again,and she'll try to change/fix the next jerk.

You can't save her from herself. She'll just continue seeing him behind your back,like a teenager trying to see some forbidden boyfriend behind her parent's back.




What I'd like to know is when did this girl become "little sister" like?


You say you made out with her a few times and had sex with her once,but this you say she's like a little sister???


This reminds me of that "Would you do anal with a hot cousin" thread,lol.

Also as for none of my business - perhaps. But our relationship is such that in the past we've come to each other for perspective and generally valued the advice.

Well this is fine and all,but I doubt she's going to listen to you this time.

If a guy turns a woman on,that's ALL she'll care about. Anything negative anyone says about him will sound like the teacher in those Charlie Brown cartoons. You know,womp-wa-wa-womp.



Even if what you say is true,she'll just rationalize it away to be able justify continue seeing him. Maybe if she were in her late 30s/early to mid 40s you might have a chance of talking some sense into her,but anywhere between 17 to 30 you can forget it.


The ONLY THING that will snap her out of it is either for the guy to stop creating attraction in her,or for her to get soooo hurt soooo bad,that the pain her feels outweighs and overtakes the attraction created.



Other than that,all you can do is just watch from a distance,forget her altogether and live your own life,or be her emotional tampon for when she eventually does get stung and needs someone complain and unburden herself to....right before she runs right back to him again.

 

[DanelMadr]

Bad boys are aggressive little boys.

Confront him and when he flips, B1tch slap him or something till he cries right before her eyes. That I would do for my little sister.

For a girl I barely know....I would inform her that she is pathetic loser for dating such a trash and every other man would not dare to kiss her after she kisses him let alone sleep with her. It will ruin her reputation. Shock and Awe.

But I strongly suggest....let it go.

 

[Credos]

Only the movie Goodfellas has the right solution to it...

 

[vatoloco]

I do not have feelings for this girl.

My good sir, I'm gonna have to call you on this one. You obviously do because you're concerning yourself with the well-being of this girl.

Now, I'm not saying you shouldn't have those feelings (some guys just can't help to have them) but the key here is not acting upon those feelings. This is the reason for NC after a break-up: I don't concern myself with her issues and she doesn't concern herself with mine after we split up.

After a string of flops with other guys after me, she recently met a guy online and seems to have fallen for him pretty hard. To put it simply this guy is bad news: Messed up childhood, criminal record (including getting arrested less than a week ago), does and deals drugs, has hands dirty with stolen merchandise, etc. No education or ambition to get one whereas she is a university student. He also seems unstable (she complains about drastically changing personality daily).

Sounds to me like your ego was rubbed the wrong way. Why were you okay with the other exes except for this upcoming prospect? Is it because he might be the one thing you're not: a natural bad boy?

Now man, please don't take this the wrong way. I'm not trying to offend you here. What I'm trying to do is give you an honest perspective on what your ex might have really wanted in the beginning: a bad boy for herself that she can work on "changing." Maybe your ego resents her for that (as in dating you when you really weren't what she originally wanted) and is now trying to keep her from doing exactly that.

The way I see it, if you really want to help her, you're better off letting her C&B by getting involved with this guy. Some people only learn when they hit rock bottom...

 

[Warrior74]

Only the movie Goodfellas has the right solution to it...

I was thinking more like Sonny and Carlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjN0fmmpJa0

That is the utter hypocrisy with many of the posters here. They strive to be bad boys, but if their mother, or younger sister were to *get it on* with another bad boy, they would try steer her away.

So this translates into: 'I don't want my mother or younger sister to be with a type of guy...that is exactly like who I am.'

So you *bad boy* wannabes - looks like you are not proud of what you have become.

Cheers!

It's the way the world is, and the way we want it to be. Imagine if your father was the badboy....would you rather not be born? No man wants his son to have to go off and murder other men in war...but we understand that it has to happen to some. No man wants his son to be heartbroken over a *****, but we understand it happens. No man wants his daughter to be a slut, but we understand it happens, no man wants his sister/mother/daughter to date bad boys but we understand it happens. Do we do nothing about it? Of course not...do we expect to change it...not really, do we try anyway? Of course.

The point is to not be a wanna be bad boy but to be a real man. There is such a difference and most here just miss it. A real man gets laid plently without taking people though all of the pain and drama a true low life badboy does. but if that's what a woman want's, that's what she's going to get. Nothing you can do to stop her.

With my female friends, I don't comment on their relationship choices unless they ask my opinion. And even then I treat them like I treat my homies, I say my piece and I shut the hell up after that. Anything else is unmanly and unbecoming.

 

[Forty0ztoFreedom]

Speaking as a past manipulative b@stard who assisted in breaking up a 4 year relationship . . go for what you know 'doesn't work.' Frame the guy as an AFC and if you hold that frame strongly, and she is close enough to you, you can get her to start thinking differently . . No guarantees, but its possible. I know first hand. (Yes, I was a pr*ck . . all for one night of hooking up).

Look up old stuff from Tyler about this. Basically, every story you hear about him, frame it as creepy/neediness somehow.

 

[SmoothTalker]

Obviously it was not little sister like when we hooked up. These things can change over time, and that's what happened here after we realized we were not romantically compatible.

Little sister isnt the perfect description either but I used it to pre-empt the she's your ex/you want her talk, which sadly seems to have failed.

I am not starting this thread to discuss the merits of what I wanted to do. I'm a man and I can and will make my own decisions thank you very much. So if you are going to post telling me I'm living my life wrong/what I'm doing is wrong/ I secretly have feelings for her/ I'm just hurt/jealous, save your breath, I'm not interested and will not have that discussion.

If you have specific advice/experience/tips on how to do what I am looking to do, please share them.

To all of you who have already been giving useful advice, thank you.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Now we must take time to differentiate between the SoSuave definition of "bad boy" and the guy OP is describing here.

We describe the "bad boy" mentality as being a challenge, confident, and not needy.

Nowhere do you see anyone advocating a life of crime, drugs, mental instability, and abject LOSERNESS as a means of getting women.

So in truth our "bad boy" is just a man with a strong frame, and OP's bad boy is a fvcking loser.

Suffice to say, my little sister got in with a guy like this, and it has caused nothing but undue problems and stress for my family.

If there was a way to convince a woman to stay away from losers like this one, I would SURELY have found it by now. Women are convinced that they are never wrong, so the more you trash this guy, the more you push her towards him. It's a real sh!tty catch-22.

And I believe OP when he sais it isn't him pining for his forbidden sweetheart, he's been here since 2003 and is in all likelihood telling it like it is.

Good luck.