How To Handle The Cops

[taiyuu_otoko]

Useful information (big infographic):

Know Your Rights

 

[Peaks&Valleys]

Nice advice, as always.

Let me add: if you're ever in a "scuffle" and you end up getting handcuffed for whatever reason, it doesn't always mean you're getting arrested. Cops will handcuff people, sometimes just to separate them, before they know who is to blame or who necessarily needs to get arrested. Don't over react and/or give them reason to arrest you.

Could have used ^^^that advice as well, a few times back in my glory days

 

[Married Buried]

I can't stand watching those COP shows, and when someone gets pulled over with drugs they tell the COP everything.

"Yes officer. I smoked weed at the club. Yes officer I had a beer. Here is my life story officer...."

WTF? The only words you say to a cop are "yes" and "no".

 

[dasein]

Lots of good advice in that poster. Couple of clarifications: 1. In more urban, advanced areas, it's possible (but still tough) to get bad searches and their results thrown out, possible to get favorable results from probable cause hearings (but never as likely as you see on tv or in movies). In more rural areas though (by rural I mean outside of very large multimillion population areas), it is extremely difficult to get searches excluded or win probable cause hearings. Don't believe what you see on Law & Order or other cop shows with all the conscientious, thoughtful judges interested in justice, and ESPECIALLY that DAs have any interest at all in justice. It ain't like that, that's just tv, movie usual BS. DAs are almost never interested in any just principles and few trial judges are competent on Constitutional issues outside big metro areas.

2. Your first and best line of legal defense is to have an understanding of risk levels and probability of bad results from repeated risky behavior. In today's U.S. police state, Risk levels are lowest in your own home, and increase drastically from there. Prevention by keeping your higher risk zones, car, public, especially driving a car at night and what is on your person while in public at night, squeaky clean, are more valuable to keep you out of trouble than any amount of knowledge of ConLaw by a factor of 100 or 1000. When I was younger, we used to just duck into an alley to smoke, and everyone had a bag or two on them. Can't advise strenuously enough against that today.

Cops are not the sharpest knives in the drawer to begin with, and are literally bombarded with fallacious government propaganda and brainwashing about alcohol and drug use to the point that their pea brains are usually full of all kinds of inaccuracies and bogus govstats. Never rely on their "better nature" today or expect common sense from them.

 

[zekko]

It's interesting to note that officers can legally lie to you, bluff, or try to intimidate you. Might be good to remember that.

I also don't see how the heck DUI stops are constitutional, but this hasn't been a free country in a long, long time.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Drug stops are actually unconstitutional

I agree. But if you ever see a sign that says "Drug Checkpoint Ahead," keep driving! It's a setup. There is no drug checkpoint, but they are waiting to pull over the cars that try to turn around or off the road with the fake checkpoint. And it's all perfectly Constitutional. When police use deception, that's not entrapment; it's merely good police work. Entrapment does not exist any more as a legal defense.

Other than the writing of a prominent Seattle attorney, that's the first time I've seen the "am I under arrest? am I being detained?" advice. If they don't answer, you just try to walk off and them stopping you is the same as saying you are being detained. My crim pro professor was a DA for 25 years and he had never heard of that advice, but he thought it was brilliant.

It's important, because in doing that, you just kicked the 4th Amendment into play. The cop's actions are now a government activity. You have to be mirandized if he wants your answers to be admissible. If you do not attempt or ask to leave, the law assumes everything you do and say to be voluntary! As in you just walked up to a cop and started talking. Many people submit to interrogations without knowing that they don't have to. In the eyes of the law, being intimidated into not knowing your rights is the same as knowingly and voluntarily giving up those rights.

I personally would not try the "I don't have to answer" replies when pulled over. It might be correct, but so is "my taxes pay your salary," and we all know how much they love that line. " yessir, nosir, and I dunno" will get you through most situations just fine. It is possible and I would guess not that uncommon to get arrested mostly for just being a d!ck. You can be held for a day or two and your car impounded and towed without any formal charges ever being brought against you.

 

[dasein]

Yep, am a licensed attorney, not a criminal law specialist, and nothing I post here is to be taken as legal advice, only a general discussion of broader legal issues. Laws vary widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, and no one should ever rely on anonymous internet posts in formulating general or specific legal strategies for conducting their affairs. Seek qualified counsel licensed in the jurisdiction and familiar with the areas of law in question. Despite a bad rep, many lawyers will help you with a free of charge consult, especially if you disclose financial hardship on the front end. The problem is that there's only so much an attorney can do before having a de facto "lawyer client" relationship arise that obligates the attorney to see a case through to the end, compensation or no. A lawyer with a policy of "helping folks out" can quickly go awry of the bar regulations or bankrupt.

Am skeptical of the "can I leave?" tactic and then trying to leave. Every time I've had experience with that in my area (also the "bible belt" ) or heard of it, an arrest was immediate. Once they arrest, they have broader latitude to search you or your car. Cops lie like rugs, seriously, consider it their right as they are the "good guys," they will make up everything from odors to aggressive action on your part to planting evidence. Don't believe the media hype, they are some of the least trustworthy people you will ever have dealings with, and far and away the least trustworthy people carrying a gun you will ever have dealings with. I would never counsel someone to rely on probable cause protections other than as just one tool in a big possible box. To restate, cops and judges/magistrates have immense power, moreso than the Constitution in their ambit, and despite all the Conlaw theorycrafting, taking advantage of Constitutional protections is extremely expensive, if available in the particular jurisdiction at all. Best to manage legal risk in more proactive ways and well in advance of police interactions.

 

[zekko]

You mean we shouldn't try to practice PUA technique and AMOG the cop?
Besides, Roissy says girls like guys with arrest records.

Maybe we should share ways to AMOG a cop.
Like if he asks for your license, tell him "You're cool".

 

[user43770]

You mean we shouldn't try to practice PUA technique and AMOG the cop?
Besides, Roissy says girls like guys with arrest records.

Maybe we should share ways to AMOG a cop.
Like if he asks for your license, tell him "You're cool".

"9mm as your primary carry weapon? Hey, at least it's lightweight."

 

[TheVirtualMind]

Hmm...This thread is relevant to my interests...

Figured if an attorney is checking in, a cop might as well. Also, if you have any GOOD questions (use common sense...) just ask and I'll try to answer as many as I can unless it involves tactical stuff.

Nice advice, as always.

Let me add: if you're ever in a "scuffle" and you end up getting handcuffed for whatever reason, it doesn't always mean you're getting arrested. Cops will handcuff people, sometimes just to separate them, before they know who is to blame or who necessarily needs to get arrested. Don't over react and/or give them reason to arrest you.

Could have used ^^^that advice as well, a few times back in my glory days

This is true. There are MANY reasons why someone could be handcuffed but not arrested. You named a very good one...Also the most common.

I can't stand watching those COP shows, and when someone gets pulled over with drugs they tell the COP everything.

"Yes officer. I smoked weed at the club. Yes officer I had a beer. Here is my life story officer...."

WTF? The only words you say to a cop are "yes" and "no".

I always feel like COPS is scripted. I want to yell at my tv every time it's on, at both the officer AND other person. But honestly...Some people really are dumb enough to do that. I've had that situation happen MANY times.

Lots of good advice in that poster. Couple of clarifications: 1. In more urban, advanced areas, it's possible (but still tough) to get bad searches and their results thrown out, possible to get favorable results from probable cause hearings (but never as likely as you see on tv or in movies). In more rural areas though (by rural I mean outside of very large multimillion population areas), it is extremely difficult to get searches excluded or win probable cause hearings. Don't believe what you see on Law & Order or other cop shows with all the conscientious, thoughtful judges interested in justice, and ESPECIALLY that DAs have any interest at all in justice. It ain't like that, that's just tv, movie usual BS. DAs are almost never interested in any just principles and few trial judges are competent on Constitutional issues outside big metro areas.

2. Your first and best line of legal defense is to have an understanding of risk levels and probability of bad results from repeated risky behavior. In today's U.S. police state, Risk levels are lowest in your own home, and increase drastically from there. Prevention by keeping your higher risk zones, car, public, especially driving a car at night and what is on your person while in public at night, squeaky clean, are more valuable to keep you out of trouble than any amount of knowledge of ConLaw by a factor of 100 or 1000. When I was younger, we used to just duck into an alley to smoke, and everyone had a bag or two on them. Can't advise strenuously enough against that today.

Cops are not the sharpest knives in the drawer to begin with, and are literally bombarded with fallacious government propaganda and brainwashing about alcohol and drug use to the point that their pea brains are usually full of all kinds of inaccuracies and bogus govstats. Never rely on their "better nature" today or expect common sense from them.

1. This is true. I work in an area where I get to run into both "urban" and "rural" areas, along with the different court systems for each one. What applies in one area for a DA may not apply in the other, even if it's the EXACT same scenario.

2. First half is true. You wouldn't believe how many people I come in contact with that has a warrant because they decide to do something stupid and illegal right infront of me...As far as the second half...There are some that buy into it, and others that can think for their own. But also, there are individual factors. I don't care about, nor do I go hunting for, drugs. DUI's on the other hand...Though that's mainly because of past situations (friends killed in DUI's, I was nearly killed in one by a drunk driver, same with coworker, ect)

Zekko - Are you talking about DUI checkpoints, or DUI stops in general? As far as checkpoints, that varies per state actually. Some states allow it, some don't. It's come under a lot of scrutiny. DUI stops on the other hand...Those are legal, as it is a vehicle stop, which requires some form of PC (probably cause) which can be anything from a light being out, to expired tags.

Now if you try to AMOG the cop with that line at that time...Expect to be told to step out of the car...

TyTe`EyEz: Now THAT is funny. If I heard that, I'd actually laugh. *Note: Only if you say that and are NOT reaching for something at the same time...*

 

[zekko]

"9mm as your primary carry weapon? Hey, at least it's lightweight."

"Dude, do you even lift?"

Zekko - Are you talking about DUI checkpoints, or DUI stops in general?

Oops, you're right, I meant checkpoints.

 

[TheVirtualMind]

Just to add to what dasein and the Virtual Mind had to say: if there is one piece of friendly (as opposed to legal) advice I would give it's to keep your mouth shut.

I would say that the vast majority of criminal convictions are due to the cop lying to the criminal (ie "we have video evidence of you doing xyz so you better confess unless you want to do hard time" even though no such video exists) or to the criminal telling friends or relatives about his crime. Accusations of entrapment against the police are extremely difficult to prove and basically unless the cops literally force you to do something illegal this principle will not apply.

Sometimes an arresting cop even knows or suspects what he's doing is not legal, but he'll let the courts figure it out. That is, after you've spent thousands of dollars in bail and lawyer fees and quite possibly lost your job due to missing work while in jail.

As for judges, I've discussed this countless times before in previous posts but remember that we live in a common law system so often judicial decisions will depend on the whims of the individual judge and how he views a certain law. A more "stable government" type of judge will be strict on criminals and may be more prone to convicting the accused. I have personally witnessed accused criminals get convicted of very serious sexual assault charges based on nothing more than the judge believing one person's testimony over the other. After all, if judges didn't make mistakes then we wouldn't have a need for appellate courts to reverse those decisions.

Just a few things: Yes, keeping your mouth shut is a great piece of advice, but it also can backfire. Remember this: You know who you are, what you are thinking, what you are up to, what you have with you, ect. As a cop, I don't know you from the other billion people in the world. You WILL have a MUCH easier time if you answer the basic questions/follow the basic stuff (ex: hand over license and registration when asked to during a car stop, letting the officer know you are reaching for the license/registration, NOT moving your hands under the seat, ect.) I work mainly in the "urban" area and have more than enough examples of SHTF (sh*t hitting the fan) very quickly from that person that is all nice and calm and as a result...I can be on a bit of an edge, because of past events. Think of it as a minor form of PTSD. Think about that when dealing with a cop, just like how a cop is thinking "so...if this person decides to snap..."

As far as lying...I personally don't. I know those that do and it can and HAS come back to bite them. Maybe being "younger" and growing up with technology, I'm well aware that cameras are everywhere and people are quick to video record an officer, so I do NOT want to say something stupid that is most likely being recorded. Also, you catch a rap on the street from criminals that way. "Officer Friendly" may have some issues with certain criminals, but gets much better results and information than Officer "He Will Plant 5 Bags Of Weed On Me In My Sleep." Also, if you state there is video and all of a sudden dasein sends you a letter asking for it, if you lied, FYL (f*ck Your Life.)

I stopped paying attention to judges honestly. After seeing some of the stuff in court play out...:cuss:

Thanks for posting this. I've been watching a lot of Law & Order reruns lately and sometimes I get pissed off thinking about how sneaky the cops' tactics are. Then I wonder how I'd handle that kind of pressure.

If you think a cops tactics are sneaky...They are. However, feel free to see how sneaky criminals tactics are in real life. It's a true "cat and mouse" game. Some days you are the cat, some days you are the mouse.