How to be a Challenge Without Driving Women Away?

[SargeMaximus]

I read on here recently that you gotta be a challenge to women. But that’s kind of been my thing since childhood to play devil’s advocate and always question people and such. But ime it just isolates you and makes people and women avoid you so obviously I’m doing it wrong. What’s the correct way?

 

[Kotaix]

You have to stand by your own principles, even if others disagree with you, and not cave to popular opinion like the rest of the lemmings. This is the "I can change him" challenge that women appear to be attracted to.

People aren't interested in having their assumptions or beliefs questioned directly. It raises suspicion and it almost always leads to negative emotions at the time. You might actually have an effect by questioning someone's assumptions, but VERY few people are capable of re-evaluating their beliefs on the fly, most people are extremely bigoted.

Some people might think about what you're saying at a later time and realize you're right, but in the moment you turn them off.

 

[Glassguy]

Have abundance. If a woman complies, great. If they don't, great. You should have 10 more of them wanting your time

 

[SargeMaximus]

Have abundance. If a woman complies, great. If they don't, great. You should have 10 more of them wanting your time

I don’t tho because I turn them all off. That’s my point. It don’t seem to work

 

[SargeMaximus]

You have to stand by your own principles, even if others disagree with you, and not cave to popular opinion like the rest of the lemmings. This is the "I can change him" challenge that women appear to be attracted to.

People aren't interested in having their assumptions or beliefs questioned directly. It raises suspicion and it almost always leads to negative emotions at the time. You might actually have an effect by questioning someone's assumptions, but VERY few people are capable of re-evaluating their beliefs on the fly, most people are extremely bigoted.

Some people might think about what you're saying at a later time and realize you're right, but in the moment you turn them off.

So what’s the solution?

 

[oldmanofthesea]

It's pretty straight forward. These are the two basic ways which apply to being a challenge, without driving women away:

1. During a discussion, (in a group setting or 1:1) there will often be times when a women disagrees with you and when this happens, usually if a guy is attracted to a women and/or intimidated by her, he will cave to her disagreement and change his opinion. Also, a fair number of women are masters at employing shame when they disagree with you. They will look at you with a sneer of disgust and talk at you as if you crawled out from under a rock. This often elicits some sort of pre-programmed matriarchal response in men instilled from their mother's raising them in childhood and causes men to back-pedal and cave and change their opinion. Don't do that. You don't have to lash out in response - don't match their hostility.... instead, contrast it by saying something like, "Wow, I'm sorry that a simple difference of opinion causes you to react with such judgement and venom. Seems like you have some things to work out there," and be confident.

2. Questioning women is good, but there is a way you need to do it and you need to mix it with validation. Most guys will literally cut women off in the middle of something they are saying in order to say, "OMG WOW! YOU ARE INTO PHOTOGRAPHY?! THAT IS SO COOL!!!!!" Don't do that. Instead, think of it like this: "Be hard to impress, but give validation when you are impressed." So If she says, "I'm into photography," just look at her completely flatly and say, "why". That's an example of a good challenge. If her answer is, "I don't know, hehe, I just like it." That's a lame ass answer and deserves no flattery or validation from you so you just look at with a little bit of a confused grin. If she gives you a detailed explanation that really shows you something about who she is as a person and what makes her tick and what makes her wake up in the morning or motivates her or something else that you admire or respect, then you can light-up a bit and praise her for it with a compliment or acknowledgement etc. So you can't just challenge everything she says. Just don't be easy to impress, but don't be impossible to impress either.

 

[SargeMaximus]

It's pretty straight forward. These are the two basic ways which apply to being a challenge, without driving women away:

1. During a discussion, (in a group setting or 1:1) there will often be times when a women disagrees with you and when this happens, usually if a guy is attracted to a women and/or intimidated by her, he will cave to her disagreement and change his opinion. Also, a fair number of women are masters at employing shame when they disagree with you. They will look at you with a sneer of disgust and talk at you as if you crawled out from under a rock. This often elicits some sort of pre-programmed matriarchal response in men instilled from their mother's raising them in childhood and causes men to back-pedal and cave and change their opinion. Don't do that. You don't have to lash out in response - don't match their hostility.... instead, contrast it by saying something like, "Wow, I'm sorry that a simple difference of opinion causes you to react with such judgement and venom. Seems like you have some things to work out there," and be confident.

I usually just laugh it up and restake
What I said. It annoys me when they do that.

2. Questioning women is good, but there is a way you need to do it and you need to mix it with validation. Most guys will literally cut women off in the middle of something they are saying in order to say, "OMG WOW! YOU ARE INTO PHOTOGRAPHY?! THAT IS SO COOL!!!!!" Don't do that. Instead, think of it like this: "Be hard to impress, but give validation when you are impressed." So If she says, "I'm into photography," just look at her completely flatly and say, "why". That's an example of a good challenge. If her answer is, "I don't know, hehe, I just like it." That's a lame ass answer and deserves no flattery or validation from you so you just look at with a little bit of a confused grin. If she gives you a detailed explanation that really shows you something about who she is as a person and what makes her tick and what makes her wake up in the morning or motivates her or something else that you admire or respect, then you can light-up a bit and praise her for it with a compliment or acknowledgement etc. So you can't just challenge everything she says. Just don't be easy to impress, but don't be impossible to impress either.


I see, thanks

 

[SargeMaximus]

This site has the worst quoting code.

to #1
I usually just laugh it up and restate
What I said. It annoys me when they do that tho.

And # 2 I’ll work on that thanks @oldmanofthesea

Edit: like the attached pic?

 

[Kotaix]

So what’s the solution?

You disagree with women and you are "difficult" because of your convictions. You don't do it to be deliberately difficult, you do it because it's who you are.

Do not look for conflict and don't look to start any conflict. That is what turns women away.

 

[SargeMaximus]

You disagree with women and you are "difficult" because of your convictions. You don't do it to be deliberately difficult, you do it because it's who you are.

Do not look for conflict and don't look to start any conflict. That is what turns women away.

That’s what I do/don’t do. I stick by my convictions. I have strong convictions. So it’s either stick up for them and drive people away or be a beta? That makes no sense to me

 

[EyeBRollin]

Challenge just means make them work for you. By god stop texting them.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Challenge just means make them work for you. By god stop texting them.

Why stop texting them?

 

[Old Balls]

Slight example, but this kind of disagreement is what got the ball rolling for me on my last meetup:

Her: I can't stand Aaron Rodgers.
Me: I think he is a great QB, I've always thought so. Plus I love he has the balls to stand up for his beliefs instead of caving to the hysterical woke mob.

I could have easily said "I know, me too!" to have an agreeable way of "building commonalities".

Banter back and forth ensues in a playful way. I kept it like this everytime we legit had a difference of opinion. She mouth raped me at the end of the night.

 

[Kotaix]

That’s what I do/don’t do. I stick by my convictions. I have strong convictions. So it’s either stick up for them and drive people away or be a beta? That makes no sense to me

If you're driving people away when you speak of your convictions then you're either taking the wrong tone or saying too much.

For example, no woman wants to hear about red pill stuff. There are things you just can't/don't talk about with women. It's not beta, it's just counterproductive.

 

[kavi]

Dont be a simp.

 

[SargeMaximus]

If you're driving people away when you speak of your convictions then you're either taking the wrong tone or saying too much.

For example, no woman wants to hear about red pill stuff. There are things you just can't/don't talk about with women. It's not beta, it's just counterproductive.

I never talk about red pill stuff with women. Did you see the pic I posted?

Dont be a simp.

I’m never a simp

 

[Velasco]

Edit: like the attached pic?

Lol come on, sarge. I thought your autism had gone away by now

 

[SargeMaximus]

Lol come on, sarge. I thought your autism had gone away by now

Nope

 

[Velasco]

Imo, be a challenge means don't be easy. Girls follow this principle to a T and they really like it when you the same. Basically sending mixed signals.

Through in person this can be conveyed thru walking away when something annoys you PLAYFULLY like "k bye!" Both genders do this. It's just PLAYING. Only to come back to your set and start flirting again.

In texts this can be conveyed through pauses in between texts. Like taking 5 minutes to text back VS right away. Or not texting her all day/full week then hitting her up late or way later in the week.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Imo, be a challenge means don't be easy. Girls follow this principle to a T and they really like it when you the same. Basically sending mixed signals.

Through in person this can be conveyed thru walking away when something annoys you PLAYFULLY like "k bye!" Both genders do this. It's just PLAYING. Only to come back to your set and start flirting again.

In texts this can be conveyed through pauses in between texts. Like taking 5 minutes to text back VS right away. Or not texting her all day/full week then hitting her up late or way later in the week.

Yeah I often don’t text when girls are being difficult. They don’t re engage. If I re engage however, they usually don’t respond. So I’m not seeing any benefits of that