"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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how persistent should you be?

Heretolearn

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Had 2 dates with a 22 yr old. Nice interesting girl. Nothing happened although good conversation and fun. On the 2nd date, she told me that she wants to be friends as she has just (3 weeks) broke up/moved out of living with bf of 2 years.

I nicely said I was attracted to her so the friendship would not work and dropped her home. Interestingly, she flirted with me more after that statement.

So what would you do if anything? If she calls me then I would catch up and have fun again. Although I have resisted calling her. Part of me feels like that is giving up, and if I was persistent who knows. The other part of me recognises this may be a dead end and I am better off investing time elsewhere (which I am doing anyway).

thoughts - similar stories?

thanks
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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Tazman

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Ignore her unless you have a conversation that leads to a date, and if another date happens just pretend she never gave you the LJBF, even if she says it again. Try to escalate things, if she resists I'd just end the date on a friendly note and next her.

Some women throw that line out there as a test, sometimes you can work past it and sometimes its genuine and she becomes pointless to pursue.
 

Aaron B

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You are at the stage where you should be consistently getting phone numbers on a regular basis. Then when you have free time you decide on an activity you would like to do and get out your list and start from the top, calling girls and inviting them on your date.

So if girl #1 is busy or whatever, hang up and immediately call girl #2. Repeat as necessary. I doubt you get very far down the list before a girl enthusiastically accepts your date invitation.

Girls like the one you mentioned go to the bottom of the list. She has communicated to you that she is not worthy of your time and attention (or at least less deserving than some other girls who haven't had a shot at you yet). Perhaps at some time in the future you can let her have another shot.

I agree with Tazman also, there's nothing to be lost by still trying to get her to come along with your program. That's the thing though, it has to be her coming to you, not the other way around.

If she doesn't understand that she's going to lose you if she keeps this up, its up to you to communicate that to her.

And the more other girls you have in your life, the less you will focus on any particular one of them. Your focus needs to be on you and what you want, not her and what she's trying to get from you.

Lastly, scenarios like you described reinforces my belief that its important for the man to tease her early on with statements like:

"No matter what happens, I know we'll always be great friends"

"I'm glad we've gotten to be such good friends"

Its not a LJBF and its a mixed message. The sexual tension is still there, but she's not sure about you. Do you really just want to be friends she will wonder. Doing this will remove the LJBF tactic from her arsenal.
 

Duffdog

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The real answer is "you should not have to try"

Unfortunately, that means that you will have to become a male that the girls want. Which is hard. Its easy to get numbers, hard to get a chick to stop f_cking the alpha male she is f_cking and f_ck you instead... unless you yourself are another alpha.

Remember, you and 4332 other guys have been the guys she says "I wanna b friends" to, but after she is done with you, she gets nailed by the alpha who doesn't have to care or call.
 

"You Can't Argue a Woman Into Liking You"

You made your case like a lawyer. Stable job. Good guy. Ready for something real. All true. All irrelevant.

She weighed your points, nodded along, felt nothing — then fell hard for some tattooed bartender with a motorcycle and a gambling problem.

Logic is where attraction goes to die. The "22 Rules" work a level deeper, on the subconscious switches that decide within minutes whether you register as a MAN or as part of the furniture.

Stop presenting evidence. Start flipping switches.

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Heretolearn

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yeah - I let this one slide unfortunately. I.e have not contacted her or heard from her. Frustrating that it did not go anywhere although I must admit that this is a better result than being in the friend zone and unrequited interest.
 

Boilermaker

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For a moment I thought whether it'd have been better if you zeroed in on the friendship offer.

I mean, if you said you were not attracted to her and a relationship would not work, but you enjoyed her friendship ..

Would it have been a nice try ? I don't know, move on, look forward.
Persistence in general ..

Cheers,
 
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Jitterbug

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You should neither take it (the friendship offer) nor reject it. I'd say something like: "You seem like an alright girl, but we've only been on two dates, not enough time for me to know you enough to decide whether we'd be friends or more."
 

women haze

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I don't know about the "no matter what happens good friend line...." because you are putting yourself in a situation you don't want to be in correct????
 

Heretolearn

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exactly - it is that line between still 'orbiting'/being around the girl and hoping for something to grow and using your time/energy elsewhere.

I used to go for option 1. Now I go for option 2.
 

"The Coffee Shop Girl You Never Spoke To"

You've replayed it a hundred times. She stood three feet away, scrolling her phone. You had an opening. You composed the perfect line — after she was gone.

For all you know, she's married now. To some guy who said something. Anything.

Openers are cheap. Almost any sentence works when it's delivered within three seconds. The expensive part is the standing there, drafting and deleting, while the window quietly closes.

The "22 Rules" stripped out my hesitation. What to open with, how to keep it alive, and the one habit that costs guys more women than anything else: waiting for perfect.

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