How much do looks matter

[Dr_jitsu]

I can see your point about congruence here. A woman might get the ick over it. It depends on the context of the interaction.

I have 2 acquaintances that are STEM guys who have experienced some success in the mating environment. They were STEM majors in academia and have had STEM roles since graduation. I have indirectly mentioned both in "Pregnancy Announcements Everywhere".

The first one is around 5'11"-6'0", has had good facial aesthetics, and has been fit in the 12+ years I've known him. He could legitimately be called a 'Chad Lite'. I think many people would rate his looks in the 7-8 range, including someone like Wheat Waffles who rates looks on a regular basis. When I first met him, he was struggling to get poontang despite his solid looks and above average income as a 20 something from a STEM role. He got into some 6 month mini relationship. Soon after that, he got together with a different woman from a social circle setup. This was a woman I had interest in as well. A couple months before they got together, I had attempted to seduce her with my charisma at a private residence party. I don't think any of our mutual acquaintances had hyped me up to her. Although my charisma was there that night, everything was falling flat with her.

My STEM role acquaintance and this woman do get together and then eventually get married. They've been together over 10 years now and have children together. When they first met, her looks were average range to slightly cute by most men's ratings. I likely would have rated her in the low 6s at that point.

She is about 2 years older than he is. Despite the fact that he has good looks, it is possible that his STEM status cost him and he had to settle for an older woman. Additionally, she did not have sex with him that quickly. It took multiple months before they had sex for the first time. Seducers on this forum would not have waited that long for her pussie. The interaction has been blue pilled throughout its entirety.

The second STEM role acquaintance has a similar height. His physique is a little less shredded but its arguable that he has better facial aesthetics. I doubt that anyone would rate him an 8, but I could see Wheat Waffles and other guys rating him around a 7-7.5.

When I first met him in 2013, he was already in a relationship with the woman who is now his wife. He met her on a cold approach at a bar. I think he got to sex faster than the first guy mentioned. The woman's looks are similar to the woman in the first example, though I think the woman from the first example has a better face. This guy was able to seduce a woman slightly younger than he is off of a cold approach at a bar. In the ensuing years since 2013, her looks have dropped off somewhat but not that badly. She is a careerist woman who was in the middle of an advanced degree program (in a STEM field) when they first met.

The second example guy talking STEM stuff to the second example woman with a STEM bachelor's degree (and later a STEM master's degree) is probably why that worked. It is unknown how strong of a seducer he was prior to meeting his current girlfriend. I'm guessing he had around 1-2 notches from longer term girlfriends in the past. I've not directly ever talked with him about seduction topics.



Yes, that's true. I do not recommend most men discuss things STEM related or politics related in initial real life approaches or early stage dates.

After sex, it's possible to discuss those topics. Those will detract from looks advantages. Looks are more important than personality but this personality factor would not help.



In terms of men with bachelor's degrees, men with business and social science/liberal arts degrees are going to be better conversationalists than men with STEM degrees.

Men with bachelor's degrees are more likely to be interacting with women with bachelor's degrees.

The men with high school diplomas and trade level certifications are more likely to be interacting with women with high school diplomas and trade certifications.

Great post. I am only replying to/about the first guy. Dating an older woman and waiting months for sex is just insanity. Especially a good looking guy with a good career. Just shows you how important game and mindset are. I would have had him running endless rotations and banging everything and then marrying a much younger 8 plus. He would have gotten similar outcomes from following the wise posters on this forum.

 

[Dr_jitsu]

You are better off avoiding STEM and politics because these are the biggest pvssy driers known to man.

Correct. I hold a PhD in Political Science and NEVER talked politics. Even after 18 years of marriage I stay away from it. My wife works in an extremely far left environment (several of her employees are trans for example and she can get fired if she misgenders them) and she comes home daily with these outrageous TDS filed ideas. I am not a huge Trump supporter, I just tell my wife how Democrat policy exacerbated inflation and lately how Trumps tariffs may do they same.

But these conversations NEVER help our relationship.

 

[SW15]

I am only replying to/about the first guy. Dating an older woman and waiting months for sex is just insanity. Especially a good looking guy with a good career. Just shows you how important game and mindset are. I would have had him running endless rotations and banging everything and then marrying a much younger 8 plus. He would have gotten similar outcomes from following the wise posters on this forum.

I didn't realize that he waited months for sex from her until multiple years into their relationship.

I had wondered why she didn't go for me when I attempted to seduce her. She must have perceived that I was not going to wait for sex. It probably would not have been good had I gone out on dates with her. I think we would have realized a mismatch very quickly.

I think he did underachieve in his single life. He could have done everything you said. His wife seems okay. Despite her being in social circle, I have never gotten to know her well. Their relationship has lasted 10+ years at this point and the marriage is coming up on 10 years long.

If he had "game and mindset" as you put it, I don't think he would have married a woman 2 years older and followed the path he has followed.

His looks got him a merely cute woman.

 

[BaronOfHair]

This thread ties into a topic broached here https://www.sosuave.net/forum/threa...s-nothing-personal.283972/page-9#post-3156222

After a decade of not only MeToo but nonsense like this ( https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/m...star-wars-marvel-fans-refuse-grow-up-1135549/ Walk around in any mid-large metropolitan area in The US, and note the near-ubiquitous of fellas who are decades out of junior high, yet still wearing Marvel and Star Wars gear)the public's perception of men is currently so far down the crapper, any guy who puts even an OUNCE of time and effort into his appearance is now deemed highly attractive

We today often forget that there was a brief period in the not-remotely-distant past where going above and beyond the call of duty to look like a baller, no matter what your circumstances might be, was cool

(Add characters like early Don Draper, Craig-Era Bond, Eric Northman, and Micheal Weston this list)and mimicking the man-babies who peopled Judd Apatow's flicks was considered outmoded and regressive

 

[Vanderdonck]

Apparently looks matter so much that a version of this thread gets started every month and goes on for pages.

 

[BaronOfHair]

Apparently looks matter so much that a version of this thread gets started every month and goes on for pages.

I recently had a long-time family friend flip out, when I pointed out that folks who walk into a restaurant dressed like they just walked off the set of World Star Hip Hop, or were extras on My Name As Earl, have no reasonable expectation of being treated just as well as those who look even slightly more upscale. And that no amount of us wailing "It's not fair!!!"will change the fact that we all make judgments based on images

There's a portion of the human race who will remain convinced the wheel can either be re-invented, or replaced with some radical new innovation that'll bring about an unprecedented age of splendor and equality

 

[Drmuscular]

Looks do matter a lot, at least 50% of her initial opinion on you is based on how you look though you can definitely compensate via game, money, status.

I'm not the best looking but I'm at least above average, like a 7-8, one example is the feminists in my college, they forgive me A LOT for saying offensive stuff, they dislike it but they don't say anything.

In one situation one of them said she liked being choked in sex, so I made a joke about it, no reaction, but then my not so attractive friend went and repeated what I said word for word, and guess what, she starts ranting on him and pestering him and whatever while saying NOTHING to me. So yeah while improving your game, money and status is important (and money status only matters for provider beta game), you HAVE to be better looking.

Another thing is that as you improve your looks you might get to a point were women approach YOU on a regular basis, every man (I think) have women approach or give tons of IOIs but it is not very common, I remember I was at a bar with a REALLY good looking friend, generally women would invite HIM drinks, they would kino HIM, could I get more women than him with better game? for sure, but the responsibility of approaching would be almost all on me and women might flock to me instead of him only if I gamed them beforehand, not if I was simply a stranger like him.

There is also a drawback for online dating or social media game specifically, it happens to me a lot idk if it happens to anyone here but you generally have to build a lot more rapport than normal via text because chicks think you are fake or something, like someone made a fake profile with your pics in it, you might solve this by having an absurd amount of pics.

I do disagree that it is determined by genetics as blackpillers say, there are tons of ways to make your presentation better, for sure you will never surpass a super model and that's OK, but trust how a really good body language, good clothes, gym and if you are ugly unironically something that covers your face like glasses can definitely make wonders, and once she is attracted as long as your game is tight she is yours.

That is unless you are like deformed or something, if you are not super rich its kind of over.

 

[CoolWave1331]

Your looks are the "bait on the hook". If she doesn't like what she see's you don't get the chance to/she will not allow you to work your magic. The magic in this case is the process of picking her up. I've been witness to a lot of clumsy approaches that worked just because the guy was already picked or whatever.

The way I see it if she's actively trying to get you to approach her / talk to her she's signaling you can pretty much have her. All she has to go off in these situations is your appearance.