"How I Made Sure No Woman Ever Friend-Zoned Me Again"

She calls you when her car breaks down. When she needs help moving. When some guy she's actually dating treats her badly.

You're the listener. The reliable one. The guy who would treat her so much better, if she'd just open her eyes.

She won't. You trained her to see you as the low-effort option — the friend who requires zero risk and zero investment. Every favor dug the hole deeper.

The "22 Rules" break the pattern. You'll stop auditioning for a role she already cast and become the man she chases instead. It starts with Rule 1.

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How Long Should You Wait

latebacon

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The situation is this.

Been out with a girl three times.

Our dates have been fun and we have no problem finding interesting topics of conversation. We keep strong eye contact and she seems interested.

I suspect she is romantic/idealistic. Loves romance films etc.

Whole thing hasn't escalated past kissing and she is protective of her personal details like where she is athough I do have her mobile number and call her.

Normally I have my best relationships when it is full on sexually from the start.

I am starting to lose patience and my question is how much longer should I pursue this if there is no escalation on the physical side of things?
 

"Nervous Around Beautiful Women? There's a Rule for That"

I could talk to any woman I wasn't attracted to. Charming, funny, relaxed. Then a gorgeous woman looked my way and I'd become a sweating, babbling mess.

The fix took me years to find and ten minutes to learn. Nervousness and excitement are the same physical state — pounding heart, adrenaline, flushed face. Your brain just picks the label. And you can pick a better one.

Rule 16 shows you how. You feel the nerves, relabel them as excitement, and let that energy pour out as enthusiasm. Women notice the guy radiating it. They always do.

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Francisco d'Anconia

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Only wait as long as you can without becoming completely frustrated.
 

Phyzzle

Master Don Juan
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Lots of people here have gotten laid after six dates or more. But the relationships are generally not that intense, and therefore not all that strong.

Does she ever initiate touching with you? You have to decide if she's wary about sex or lukewarm about you. If she still has to be pried & convinced into kissing you, forget about it.

As for the phone thing, she's proably just married.
 

WaterTiger

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Phyzzle said:
As for the phone thing, she's probably just married.
OOooo! You stole my line!:yes:
 

Jestor

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latebacon said:
The situation is this.

Been out with a girl three times.

Our dates have been fun and we have no problem finding interesting topics of conversation. We keep strong eye contact and she seems interested.

I suspect she is romantic/idealistic. Loves romance films etc.

Whole thing hasn't escalated past kissing and she is protective of her personal details like where she is athough I do have her mobile number and call her.

Normally I have my best relationships when it is full on sexually from the start.

I am starting to lose patience and my question is how much longer should I pursue this if there is no escalation on the physical side of things?
A well known rule, even among non-players is, three dates to sex or next. Another rule (my own) is, if we don't end up at my place or hers on the first date, then it *usually* is a waste of time.
 

"Why Women Dump the Guys Who Try the Hardest"

You paid for dinner. You drove. You said "whatever you want is fine" every single time. All the effort, no expectations.

And she left anyway — probably for a guy who makes her pick up the pizza.

Painful. Also predictable. Her mind quietly concludes that anything requiring zero effort from her is worth exactly zero. You became a free sample, and free samples get taken for granted.

The 22 Rules flip the dynamic. Small shifts that get her investing effort, money, and time in you — until SHE'S the one afraid of losing YOU.

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CGE333

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Why don't you work on making her as hot as she could possibly be while you are together- that way when you seduce her, it will appear as she is seducing you.

Remember to be aloof and I can't stress the magic of a woman thinking that you have a # of other options besides her. If she can be protective/ secretive of her personal details than you can be secretive of all the other women you have going on in your life. What's that, you don't have any other women? Sounds like someone needs to go out sarging. Until then I guess you had better hint that you have other irons in the fire-in a subtle way.
 

azanon

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Why not just escalate it yourself, and either get rejected or not? "Would you like to come back to my place and watch a movie", is code for, its time to get it on or this is your last date. Pressure, pressure! (respectfully of course!)
 

latebacon

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Why don't you work on making her as hot as she could possibly be while you are together

Body language is pretty good during dates, she wants to try the food at of my plate and we have a short makeout session after the date.

What's that, you don't have any other women? Sounds like someone needs to go out sarging

Spot on CGE. Have had a couple of ONS in the last month but foolishly didn't get the number to turn them into FB's. When you are thinking/concerned about the issues I am is when you're not working hard enough on other options.

well known rule, even among non-players is, three dates to sex or next. Another rule (my own) is, if we don't end up at my place or hers on the first date, then it *usually* is a waste of time.

Well aware of that rule Jestor which is why I'm questioning. Agree with not ending up at either person's place which makes it hard to transition to sex. She insists on coming to dates in her own car which would suggest caution and uncertainty about the whole deal. My gut feeling is that she has a case of Stranger Danger more than anything else. Will proceed for a short while longer; I have my eyes open and unfortunately, at this stage, my zipper shut.
 

Hitman10000

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Well your profile says you're 41, so I'm going to take a guess about her age. If she's in her 30s and she's "holding back" after a month's worth of dating (or 3 dates) Why bother? Life is short man, there are kids that are 18 years old that get blown up by bombs in Iraq.

If she has some baggage from past relationship(s) or just plain isn't into you possibly, it isn't worth waiting for. It's like seeing a disgusting plant grow around your property, you don't wait till it festers into a giant ugly plant, you have to weed it out fast.
 

wheelin&dealin

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Sounds like this chick has no female game. I went out with some chick for 3 dates and she wouldn't even let me toss around her tits. She would block every attempted move with her arms. It's pretty sad when a girl has no sexual vibe. Needless to say, there wasn't a 4th date.
 

"So, What Do You Do for Fun?"

She asks it casually, mid-sip. And you feel the floor open up, because the honest answer is work, gym, and a couple shows you're half-watching.

Women rarely say this out loud, but a man with a life is attractive before he says a word. The guy who spent Saturday deep-sea fishing and came back with photos and a story — he walks in already interesting.

The "22 Rules" pushed me to build a life worth talking about. Turns out the fastest way to be interesting to women is to be interested in your own life first.

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