how functional is gym strength

[garruk]

I was an extremely successful high school wrestler and I never went to the gym.

There is a theory that gym strength is not very applicable because lifting something up and down does not work the micro-muscles necessary.

My first year in college, I did some jiujitsu with my roommate who was jacked and a total gym rat and outweighed me by 10-15 pounds. I outmuscled him over and over and over again.


Nowadays, I go to the gym to get big for aesthetic reasons.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

Here's my thought.

I've never been a good wrestler/grappler. However, at various times I have been very strong.

During those times, very skilled, smaller, lighter guys could beat me. But only if they were very skilled and knew their techniques very well. Otherwise my strength would always allow me to win regardless of my skill.

On top of that, it is better to be strong for normal everyday situations.

This "micro-muscle" sounds like BS. Lift weights to get strong and you will be stronger at everything from hopping fences to climbing ropes to man-handling your opponents.

 

[Fuglydude]

I was an extremely successful high school wrestler and I never went to the gym.

There is a theory that gym strength is not very applicable because lifting something up and down does not work the micro-muscles necessary.

My first year in college, I did some jiujitsu with my roommate who was jacked and a total gym rat and outweighed me by 10-15 pounds. I outmuscled him over and over and over again.


Nowadays, I go to the gym to get big for aesthetic reasons.

I think at the end of the day wrestling/grappling has a lot more to do with technique, leverage and strategy than brute strength. Explosion definitely plays a role however.

I definitely think gym strength is transferrable in day-to-day settings. I remember once a few years back I did a drop in labor thing where you just go into a work site and basically do labor for 8 hours a day. I remember there was a giant crate of 1" air conditioning hose. The dude went to get a fork lift to move it... I was like don't bother, I was able to pivot and basically drag it to where it had to be... Everyone stared was like WTF??!?! At 5'8" - 185 lbs I'm not a big guy, but I'm explosive/strong and am confident in my physical abilities. Funny thing was the crate actually wasn't that heavy, like easily under 400 lbs. I'm a critical care RN, and we have to routinely transfer patients, turn, etc. These patients are usually heavily sedated and so its like moving deadweight... again, my lifting gives me a great base for doing this.

I think in the end it boils down to what you are doing in the gym. Kerpal highlighted a pretty good point that bodybuilding is VERY different from olympic lifting or powerlifting. It you train to be explosive and are lifting free weight raw, then I think its WAY more transferable to real life situations than doing endless sets of curls and tricep push downs.

I think the olympic lifts, plyometric work, squats and deadlifts and heavy core work are very transferable to real life.

 

[PDubb75]

The whole "micro-muscles" thing isn't BS, it's just probably not what you are thinking of. I've heard that term to describe two different things.

1) Muscles other than "glory muscles". In other words, not just biceps, shoulders, abs, quads. The "miscro-muscles" in this case can be anything from grip strength/forearms to hip flexors.
2) Tendons. A lot of uneducated guys go to the gym and just start lifting big weights trying to get size. Not only can that cause problems, but they won't realize too much strength improvement. You need to build up your tendons to be able to maintain larger muscles. This keeps you more balanced and stable.

There is definitely something to the idea of gym strength not always being applicable to real-life situations. That is the case more for isolation exercises. If all you do is bench press, you are really just strengthening your bench press. You may double your bench, but not have double the stregth when trying to push something outside the gym. That is because there are multiple muscles being used in real-life situations, and certain exercises do not hit all of them.

The trick is to focus on compound exercises, working big muscles, and switching up the exercises to shock your muscles. For example, a Seated Overhead Press is not going to have realized strength anywhere near what a Clean and Press will give you. Compound moves are the way to go for overall strength and conditioning.

 

[user43770]

I've always called them stabilizer muscles. You're right, though, they make a big difference. Take a guy who only ever squats to parallel and have him go thighs to calves - tell me he doesn't have a hell of a time...

 

[Jitterbug]

You may want to check out Alexandre Karelin's strength training. He incorporates a lot of iron lifting, including kettlebell works and Olympic weightlifting exercises. He's what, just about the greatest wrestler ever walked the earth.

There's a guy who used to train at my gym who's a competitive wrestler in the 70-something kg class. He was doing strength training through powerlifting & Oly lifting movements to gain that extra advantage over his competitors.

 

[Bible_Belt]

how functional is gym strength?

Do you mean for the function of grappling? Good jiu-jitsu, as with any martial art, is about using the strength of your opponent to his disadvantage. I'm skinny, a joke of a weightlifter, and getting old as well, but I can still easy outmatch a lot of very athletic and strong kids who show up to mma training. They don't know how to use their strength wisely and thus tire easily. They also always seem to think I am strong, when the truth is I think I bench press about 120 pounds. Technique trumps strength.

Fighters tend to do more body weight exercises than lifting weights, although since the level of competition in mma gets higher all the time, weight training is still important to a competitive fighter. Strength still matters when the other guy has good technique, too. Guys I know who lift for mma often do 12-15 rep sets in the gym. People stare.

Probably the best answer to your question is that it depends on the range of motion and complexity of movement involved. Any UFC champion could beat up the guy who holds the world record for the bench press. But if a car fell on you, and someone had to get underneath it and lift it off of you, the bench press champion is the man for the job.

 

[user43770]

But if a car fell on you, and someone had to get underneath it and lift it off of you, the bench press champion is the man for the job.

Very informative post, but you should have said deadlift champion.

[/smartass]

 

[garruk]

how functional is gym strength?

Do you mean for the function of grappling? Good jiu-jitsu, as with any martial art, is about using the strength of your opponent to his disadvantage. I'm skinny, a joke of a weightlifter, and getting old as well, but I can still easy outmatch a lot of very athletic and strong kids who show up to mma training. They don't know how to use their strength wisely and thus tire easily. They also always seem to think I am strong, when the truth is I think I bench press about 120 pounds. Technique trumps strength.

Fighters tend to do more body weight exercises than lifting weights, although since the level of competition in mma gets higher all the time, weight training is still important to a competitive fighter. Strength still matters when the other guy has good technique, too. Guys I know who lift for mma often do 12-15 rep sets in the gym. People stare.

Probably the best answer to your question is that it depends on the range of motion and complexity of movement involved. Any UFC champion could beat up the guy who holds the world record for the bench press. But if a car fell on you, and someone had to get underneath it and lift it off of you, the bench press champion is the man for the job.

see this is what im wondering as well.

there are otehr muscles that go into lifting a car compared to a bench press.

those muscles might not be worked.

i think the guy who talked about compound excercises hit the nail on the head. i think im going to try to incorporate things like clean and press.

 

[Jitterbug]

Yeah because lifting a car is more like a deadlift than a bench press. Completely different lifts. See www.exrx.net.

I compete in powerlifting, but I originally started lifting to improve my performance in other sports, and still do.

There are quite a few MMA guys in my powerlifting club too.

 

[cuzza]

Not if they had to get underneath it, haha.

Of course gym strength is functional. If you bench press, you get better at pushing things. If you deadlift, you get better at picking things up. Squats, you can run faster. Even 'unfuctional' moves such as shrugs, lateral raises, curls and the like are all obviously functional.

Big traps help you to hold things for longer and lift things. Lateral raises help to do anything in that movement plane...

In my opinion it's ridiculous to suggest that an exercise is unfunctional, and is a huge con, promulgated by 'fitness experts' who know nothing and seek to sell stability ball pushups to middle aged women.

 

[AAAgent]

gym strength is a very good compliment to your body but i'd say definitely not a means to end at. It also helps target and focus your muscle building for aesthetics as well.

Right now i only train gym, i barely do any cardio but i deadlift, bench, squat, pullups, pushups, etc.

I am decently strong but if i were to fight now, i would be very stiff and slow.

As opposed to when i used to work out 4 years ago religiously as well as box, shadow box, run, sprint and swim, i would say although i might be a tiny bit stronger overall now my former self would whip my current selfs a$$ if that makes any sense.

I like how i look now but definitely not how i move. Before i used to feel strong and agile/fast. Now even though i'm strong i still feel weak as i know I am slow.

So gym strength is functional just don't expect any amazing dynamic movements to come from gym strength. You have to train those separately.

 

[Being_the_Don]

I was an extremely successful high school wrestler and I never went to the gym.

There is a theory that gym strength is not very applicable because lifting something up and down does not work the micro-muscles necessary.

My first year in college, I did some jiujitsu with my roommate who was jacked and a total gym rat and outweighed me by 10-15 pounds. I outmuscled him over and over and over again.


Nowadays, I go to the gym to get big for aesthetic reasons.

It all depends on your definition of "gym strength"; weight lifting just to make your muscles larger is entirely different than strength training. Isolation exercises are nothing compared to compound exercises that call upon many different muscle groups to do the work. Right off the top of my head I can think of 5 weight lifting exercises that generate strength and power

1. barbell military clean and press (one of my favorite exercises). I'm 5'8" and between 158 - 160 pounds and I clean and press up to 165 pounds.

2. bench press (flat bench, declined and inclined) all of my benches are above 215 pounds my 1 RM is 280.

3. deadlifts (another favorite)- although I tend to lift at 315 pounds, my max is 425 pounds

4. dips (a body weight exercise that pulls in muscles from chest, shoulders, and triceps - a personal favorite)

5. pull ups/chin ups (body weight exercises that recruit a lot of muscle groups - another personal favorite)

This list doesn't even include squats, skullcrushers, push ups, lunges and leg press exercises. Each of the exercises that I mentioned develop incredible physical strength if you do them properly and on a regular basis. How many bodybuilders can do a decent pull up? Functional strength training comes in handy for everyday activities and duties - think firefighters and military. Firefighters must be able to carry a person from a burning building, much of that strength comes from body weight exercises and things like the clean and press.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Functional for what? What exactly do you want to be functional for?

Powerlifting? Wrestling? Manual labor?