How do you justify getting married?

[muscleman]

I'm curious to see your thoughts. Real talk, what did you expect to get from marriage vs. outside of it and did it turn out how you expected? I see nothing but heartache from every married couple I've ever known. I've been in the company of well-to-do families as well as those struggling (financially) and with those I've gotten to know and who subsequently opened up to me, it's always been the same story.

Somebody cheats.

Every. Single. Time.

In all these years I've never met a truly happy married couple. Plenty of them appear to be so on paper, but once they open up you see a bit of the ugly side. I had one in recent history which looked GREAT when you see them, but then you find out the wife has been cheating. She wanted to cheat on him with me. I just wasn't attracted enough to her and she plays a bigger role in my life which I don't want to jeopardize, so she went for one of my coworkers.

One of the girls I'm seeing asked me in bed last night what my thoughts were on fidelity (her careful way of having 'the talk') and I told her straight up I don't have an opinion about it. I've seen too much duplicity, too much 'backwards' behavior to believe that any of it is coincidence.

I'm now on my 4th year of being single (plenty of relationships/fwb, but nothing monogamous) and I couldn't be happier. I can see myself having a child in the next 10-15 years and ideally being in a relationship with the mother (possibly monogamous at that point), but marriage?

Why? Just why? I'm not trying to bash anyone who's married, but the more I see and learn the more I'm turned off from the idea, ever. Help me understand.

 

[samspade]

Legitimate question. Personally I don't recommend marriage to anyone unless they want to have children. And even then, I think the man should be at least 32-35 before taking the plunge. (And hopefully a student of Game, or all other mitigating factors fly out the window.)

OP, I don't know if most of your friends are around your age (28), but if they are, they probably married to early and without prejudice. But regardless, it's a hornet's nest to be avoided, again unless you and the woman are SERIOUS about having and raising kids together.

My wife and I? Only married two years, together for four. We're newbies. But we're having a lot of fun together. However! I would be remiss if I didn't say that neither of us "invested" much in the institution or the ceremony of marriage the way couples often do. We didn't book a church and a banquet hall. I didn't buy an engagement ring. We didn't plan for a year. She didn't buy a dress. Heck, we didn't even ask for gifts. We just got married.

To be perfectly honest, without marriage our relationship would have ended, because she was/is not a US citizen. That was a difficult decision for me to make. But I knew my wife, and saw that she was practical about it just like me. We wanted to stay together, and that was the only option short of me moving to Brazil. The only costs we sunk were for a lawyer and USCIS, fees which pale in comparison to modern, bedazzling American weddings.

So I guess that's my "justification." I'm not embarrassed to state it, either. I felt no urgent need to be married, mind you. When I was making my decision, I reasoned that either way I'd be happy. That is, if we ended it, life would go on. (I'd be sad in the short term, of course.) My life didn't hinge on this happening or not. Moreover, I knew she wanted it.

I'd also add that we have no plans for kids right now. So I sound like a hypocrite. Maybe we will, I don't know. Right now, we ARE two kids, though we're in our mid-30s. I could go on about what a great wife she is, but I don't want to bore you. Suffice to say we keep things simple: Live within our means, travel when we can, eat right, exercise, expand our horizons.

I do from time to time miss the variety of single life. But those moments are fleeting. I know when I was single there were times I wished I had one woman I could chill with the way I do my wife.

Stay single, man. You sound happy, so stay happy. Like I said, I believe a marriage is the best environment to raise a kid. But that's a huge game changer. Unless you can afford to hire a nanny and raise the kid as a single dad. But even then, your kid will (hopefully) be your priority, and that will change your life. You'll be fertile for years - enjoy the single life.

 

[Married Buried]

I got married because I found an awesome woman. She has an awesome personality and she is model hot. I have pics to prove it.

 

[The Duke]

I got married because I thought I was going to lose the girl and couldn't think of any reason not to. I put it off for 4years. I wasn't as smart as I am now.

We were together almost 15years. The last 5 of those were spent being married. It all ended when.............you guessed it...........she cheated!

She found out the grass wasn't greener and she now regrets it and isn't happy....typical woman.

 

[Burroughs]

men in the modern age post 1970s get married for 3 main reasons

1. societal shaming

2. not ending up the lonely old man.

3. the 'guarantee' of passing genes ) )

but all exist under the umbrella of Patriarchy

Patriarchy creates wealth and affluence as well as a hyper-inflation of female reproductive value, thus male wealth and resource will inevitably flow towards women in any patriarchy, leading to a population of women with sufficient leisure time and wealth furnished by their only required contribution to society being reproductive ability.

This leisure time, and the women’s ability to gauge her over-inflated value results in an entitlement mentality, that creates licentiousness, demands for increased political influence, and eventually an unlimited demand from women for government protection and provision.

This leads to unrestrained government growth, and eventually to societal bankruptcy and collapse.

 

[betheman]

I agree with Burroughs!
men tend to be more logical than women, women more emotional than men and make a lot of decisiosn based on emotions, however, I think the script is flipped when marriage is concerned. most men do not think logically where marriage is in the pipeline, at least the reasons for getting married, they tend to feel they have to, its right to, its the done thing. women however have the f cucking planned like a military operation, they know the deal and like a grand chess master, they are many moves ahead of the guys.

 

[muscleman]

men in the modern age post 1970s get married for 3 main reasons

1. societal shaming

2. not ending up the lonely old man.

3. the 'guarantee' of passing genes ) )

but all exist under the umbrella of Patriarchy

I assume you're writing those 3 reasons sarcastically? But just to clarify:

1. Separates the men from the boys. Men mold society (proactive). Boys let society mold them (reactive).

2. You almost always die alone and relationships begin and end at all stages of life.

3. Guarantees nothing. See: someone always cheats.

 

[EvilAgenda]

1. There is more income to be had.

2. You don't have to fk random btches and think about STDs.

 

[muscleman]

1. There is more income to be had.

2. You don't have to fk random btches and think about STDs.

1. Much less actually when you factor in expenses on things you'd never buy if you were single. It could take you a lifetime of 'savings' to recoup your wedding/ring/honeymoon. Possibly the worst offender 'reason' for getting married.

2. In other words, you don't have to worry about sleeping with a variety of women, ok.

 

[Poonani Maker]

I would only get married if the woman IS traditional. Seeing as how there aren't ANY, within arms length here in America. Heck, not even in the most diabolical ultra-conservative Christian prude prude prude church are there "traditional" woman like that of the foreign NATURAL ways of living lives of Real women overseas. The man always was strength, and always spoke over the woman, the woman kept silent, they were the Helper to the man, always, cause they're Weak by nature. If the man fvcks on the side, big deal, but if the Woman did, and was caught, then Off with her head!

Until I find a woman of lore and not a woman who's wh0re, I not get married Ever.

 

[Married Buried]

I would only get married if the woman IS traditional. Seeing as how there aren't ANY, within arms length here in America. Heck, not even in the most diabolical ultra-conservative Christian prude prude prude church are there "traditional" woman like that of the foreign NATURAL ways of living lives of Real women overseas. The man always was strength, and always spoke over the woman, the woman kept silent, they were the Helper to the man, always, cause they're Weak by nature. If the man fvcks on the side, big deal, but if the Woman did, and was caught, then Off with her head!

Until I find a woman of lore and not a woman who's wh0re, I not get married Ever.

The only way you will find that is to go foreign.

 

[00Kevin]

There is nothing wrong with marriage, but there is something seriously wrong with the majority of women who want to get married.

If you are going to get married then you need to put her to the test.

1. Is she willing to honor your family and change her last name? If not then she will not respect you as the head of the family.

2. Is she good with money? Does she have a lot of credit card debt? When you are married, a woman that isn't good with money will bill up her own credit cards and then expect you to pay for them. If you can't trust her with your bank account then don't get married to her.

3. Is she infected with feminism? Is so, she isn't marriage material. Marriage is not good for feminist women. They will turn your life into a social experiment.

4. Is she a lady? Does she wait for you to open the door for her? Or is she an ignorant b_tch that walks in front of you and shows no f_cking respect.

5. Is she fat or does she have the potential to get fat? A woman that gets fat on you has no respect for you or herself.

This isn't a complete list, but you get the picture.

Case in point, I used to troll these boards and in doing so I learned valuable lesson. I was the one with the problem, I had to reprogram myself and not be afraid of what society might think about what my gut instinct was telling me.

I'm now married to a wonderful foreign woman who is respectful, thin, gorgeous, and traditional. The funny thing is I work with guys who are the biggest AFCs you can imagine and they are married to fat feminist women. When I take my wife to the year end party everyone is like, "Is that his wife? wow!" lol, I love it. I come to work with home cooked meals for lunch every day and my co-workers are stuck doing the dishes and laundry.

Funny thing is that my idea of a valentines gift is buying her something sexy to wear(and she loves looking sexy for me), and their idea is doing all chores around the house and cooking her a meal. I was told by these guys that I was sexist, but who is really the b_tch ?

 

[metoo]

yep, third world women are where it's at, especially Filipinas. Even then, however, all bets are off once she obtains her US citizenship. Still, for me, at least a 5 year 'warranty" on her beats ZERO warranty on a US woman, and you can easily get a smart, lovely, young Filipina to marry you when you are MUCH older than her, as in 40 years older, guys. That is, if you amount to a rat's ass, which clearly, many men do not.

 

[00Kevin]

yep, third world women are where it's at, especially Filipinas. Even then, however, all bets are off once she obtains her US citizenship. Still, for me, at least a 5 year 'warranty" on her beats ZERO warranty on a US woman, and you can easily get a smart, lovely, young Filipina to marry you when you are MUCH older than her, as in 40 years older, guys. That is, if you amount to a rat's ass, which clearly, many men do not.

I agree, but you will not find a traditional minded woman in western culture that is even worthy of being married. Getting married to one is the equivalent of buying a car that you know is going to completely break down in a year two. Getting married to a western woman is just like setting yourself up for automatic failure.

Now, the modern feminist woman will tell you that a foreign girl will just leave you once she gets her citizenship. IMO, that's not a realistic fear to have at all. Obviously, you're not going to marry a girl that you're not sure about or that doesn't love you. When someone loves you it is obvious and getting married to that person is not a hard choice to make. Of course, that's assuming you're not a desperate fool that's willing to marry a girl at the drop of a hat. When you take the time to really get to know the girl and her family, and you share her experiences, those kinds of fears don't hold true.

The fact is foreign women have everything the north american women have and more. They are just as capable of being in love with you.

Make no mistake about it, having something of value is what all women want.
That citizenship ticket is something that you as a man has that is of value.

 

[Married Buried]

yep, third world women are where it's at, especially Filipinas. Even then, however, all bets are off once she obtains her US citizenship. Still, for me, at least a 5 year 'warranty" on her beats ZERO warranty on a US woman, and you can easily get a smart, lovely, young Filipina to marry you when you are MUCH older than her, as in 40 years older, guys. That is, if you amount to a rat's ass, which clearly, many men do not.

If you are a chump and get her because you cannot get any other woman, ofcourse she will leave as soon as she gets her citizenship.

If you are a good catch and game her and make her fall for you then a foreign woman is not going anywhere. As long as you still want her she is going to be loyal.

If I am wrong I will be the first guy to admit it but don't hold your breath.

 

[Xenon]

However! I would be remiss if I didn't say that neither of us "invested" much in the institution or the ceremony of marriage the way couples often do. We didn't book a church and a banquet hall. I didn't buy an engagement ring. We didn't plan for a year. She didn't buy a dress. Heck, we didn't even ask for gifts. We just got married.

In my opinion, this is the way it should be. Modern weddings seem like one big attention whoring **** show. "Oh look at her ring! She's so gorgeous!! WOW, that dress is beautiful!!!" Someone shoot me.

A colleague of mine (woman) is getting married in a couple months to a lawyer ($$$$$). Their wedding is going to cost about $50,000, and almost all of it is coming from her family, not herself. And no, she will not pay her family back; she makes $25,000 a YEAR. And, she's fat, and thinks more like a man than any woman I've ever met. Every damn day, she mentions something about a photographer, dress, or some other mundane BS that goes along with it, and how much it will cost. Each time, I think to myself, "Wouldn't this time and money be better spent on something else, like BUILDING A HOME???"

That said, I'm not opposed to marriage. If i do get married, she will NOT be like this. I just hope there are some traditional women left in the world in 10-15 years.

 

[samspade]

In my opinion, this is the way it should be. Modern weddings seem like one big attention whoring **** show. "Oh look at her ring! She's so gorgeous!! WOW, that dress is beautiful!!!" Someone shoot me.

A colleague of mine (woman) is getting married in a couple months to a lawyer ($$$$$). Their wedding is going to cost about $50,000, and almost all of it is coming from her family, not herself. And no, she will not pay her family back; she makes $25,000 a YEAR. And, she's fat, and thinks more like a man than any woman I've ever met. Every damn day, she mentions something about a photographer, dress, or some other mundane BS that goes along with it, and how much it will cost. Each time, I think to myself, "Wouldn't this time and money be better spent on something else, like BUILDING A HOME???"

That said, I'm not opposed to marriage. If i do get married, she will NOT be like this. I just hope there are some traditional women left in the world in 10-15 years.

Stories like that are all too common.

I actually dislike weddings. The last one I went to, my cousin's, was in a Catholic church. At least it wasn't a super long mass like most Catholic weddings (there was no communion and only a song or two). However just listening to the priest prattle on about the sanctity of marriage and how strong the relationship will be through thick and thin and blah, blah. I looked around the room. Half the people I knew were divorced. Buncha b.s.

So to throw away $50k on a wedding to me is criminal. Even if you're rich and it's a drop in the bucket, why not just give it to charity? I'm all for family, ceremony, and partying. But you can have a party (a really nice one) at a fraction of the price.

 

[Colossus]

It's really easy to look at someone's marriage from the outside and make all kinds of value judgments. Relationships, like people are complicated. There is much, MUCH more to most couple's story then meets the eye. So I am always wary of assessing a marriage at face value.

I think the late-twenties is naturally a time when you really start to question marriage, assuming you didnt take the plunge already. And this is healthy. You SHOULD question it. But marriage, like nature, isnt good or bad in and of itself. It is amoral; neutral. There are many many variable that go into it. It should be part heart and gut ("feeling" right and at peace about it), and part a calculated risk. Any student of Game should be assessing a potential wife up and down for red flags and potential pitfalls. Even under the BEST of circumstance, there is still a risk. I think the benefits---whatever they may be for you---have to outweigh the risk.

I'm not going to live someone else's dream (marriage and family) unless it's MY dream too. Girls will tool us. Look at how many poor saps are living someone else's dream. Once most women have their home and family, they are all set. They have arrived. But is it YOUR dream? Be careful.

 

[Colossus]

And as a side note, I totally agree that weddings are largely an attention-wh0ring fiasco, almost entirely for the woman. It's just so ingrained in our culture that no one questions it. What a waste of money.

 

[FairShake]

When I found a girl willing to do a Quaker wedding with me I knew she was the one! No dressing up, no fancy schmancy buffet. Just me, her, and our friends and family.

Now, why should you get married? Ever met 40+ dudes who aren't married or in long terms? RARELY a good look.*

*Present company excluded of course.