how can people join cults and believe them?

[backbreaker]

Actually Islam does have pagan origins in moon worship.

http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-moon-god.htm

If you've ever watched the movie Kingdom of Heaven you see the Islamic banners featuring the crescent moon which are a remnant of this and hell I think even their temples today adorn the crescent moon.

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/

And yes Jack Chick is an incredible far gone Christian loon but that just means he is going to examine other religions with an incredibly powerful microscope to get the truths surrounding them so there is his great writeup on Islam for anyone interested in its true origins in addition to the other link I already posted.

I believe he goes into some depth about how Islam simply found a way to connect itself to Judaism and Christianity as a means to attain more legitimacy for itself and that it really has no connection at all.

Its a moon god worship that tried to be more than it is basically and succeeded in fooling a lot of people into believing it has attachments to Abraham and the Bible.

Christanty has it's orgins from the sun god Horus...yet it never seems to be mentioned

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm


the book, the story of civilization points out that the revolving of days around the rising and falling of the sun is an entirely new concept.

in the "old days".. calanders, religions, myths, etc, all revolved around the moon. so the idea that it'ss oemthing so out of the orndary that only islam does is whack. even christanty has some paralles with moon god worship.

you also notice that every website you see that has something to do about muslims and moon gods, just so happen to be christan websites... "mostmercifial.org, bible.co.ca, etc"

http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Saifullah/moonotheism.htm


To quote someone famous.. I forgot who.. a person who is educated at one school is not educated.

A person who thinks they know about religion and gets all their information from one source, is not an educated person.

 

[backbreaker]

moreso, that's not the poitn of the post.

The girl did not say "they believe in a relgion that derived from a moon god". She said "they worshiped a moon god", as if it were some type of inferior god, sorta like Baal in the bible.

that is the equivlant of me saying "you know christans worship egyptian mythology gods right?"

no... they worship Jesus, whoose entire life was scripted AFTER an egyptian mthology god.

 

[KontrollerX]

I'm pretty much with you backbreaker.

I consider myself an agnostic atheist.

I think Christianity and Islam and all the other religions ripped off quite a bit from previous pagan religions.

The fish hat the popes wear, the fish symbol thats supposed to signify peace all of that stuff is derived and taken directly from pagan sources.

Christianity rips off liberally from Horus and Mithra.

Todays nuns dress up like vestil virgins of pagan times.

The interior design of most catholic churches is copied after the pagan temples in rome.

Pretty much whenever someone walks into a catholic church they are seeing a roman pagan court ceremonial.

 

[backbreaker]

i find it so funnyand ironic just how dumb people CAN be, when they mock old religions.. "how can someone believe in that stuff"... while they are on their way to a church to worship the same set of beliefs.

 

[azanon]

if you heard of Pascal's Wager, you'd understand what i mean. wiki it.

Just as I suspected; you haven't even bothered to read the thread. I've already talked at length about Pascal's Wager in this very thread.

I'm familiar with a list of reasons (why people follow world religions). I just don't think any of them should be compelling enough to sway an intelligent, and educated man/woman in the liberal arts.

 

[azanon]

That what the disagreement is about from the beginning. Everyone (or so I believe) disagree with you.....

Not everyone disagrees with me, ........ not even close. I couldn't even finish the paragraph.

A freethinker is a person to be respected most, but a freethinker does not have to be an atheist or an agnostic.

We clearly define freethinker differently. I've already surpassed my semantics argument limit though so..... .

 

[azanon]

Azanon, I remember that you are very successful financially. I respect that a lot. Did you do so without a stint in the academic world? Good for you if you did not have to get an advanced degree to do well, but I am asking because you seem distant from the way that Christianity is a fringe belief on any college campus. It certainly does not fit with the matrix metaphor there.

I have a Master in Biology. Both my undergraduate and advanced degrees came from protestant-affiliated (private) Universities. I'm not sure what you meant by your comment though, TBH.

So I have, as a lowly law student, sued the dean of my law school. I was ostracized more than a little about that; law students are a follow-the-herd type of crowd. I am filling out an application to take the bar right now, and I have to tell the bar association all about it, like I did something wrong.

I would have considered this an unwise move. If I was your dad, or advisor, I would have strongly discouraged you from doing this.

Remember the DC lawyers I mentioned? They flew in and took our case. They kept losing in district, but winning the appeal. We eventually won, and the appeals court opinion that gave us our win was written by one of the most respected judges in the country. I have heard of our case being taught as part of the course material at other law schools. The gay rights activists ended up with an influential court precedent written by a top judge that opposes their cause instead of furthering it.

Gratz on your win, but even in hindsight, I wouldn't have advised it.

We celebrate great men like MLK because of the tremendous sacrifice and courage that he had to stand up for what he believed and he made a tremendous difference in the future of our country. No one can ever take that away from him. Despite his greatness...... he paid with his life.

Azanon, am I a sheep because I sued the dean of my law school and won? Am I caught inside the matrix and incapable of free thought?

I just think you made an unwise decision; but of course I fully realize that's an opinion. I stated earlier that I equate freethinkers with those who are not religious. I'm certainly not alone on this which could be confirmed quickly with google.

 

[backbreaker]

Just as I suspected; you haven't even bothered to read the thread. I've already talked at length about Pascal's Wager in this very thread.

I'm familiar with a list of reasons (why people follow world religions). I just don't think any of them should be compelling enough to sway an intelligent, and educated man/woman in the liberal arts.

much like Thomas Aquinus's 5 proof's do little to actually persuade people who can think for themselves.

The Unmoved Mover. Nothing moves without a prior mover.
This leads us to a regress, from which the only escape is God.
Something had to make the first move, and that something we
call God.
2 The Uncaused Cause. Nothing is caused by itself. Every effect
has a prior cause, and again we are pushed back into regress.
This has to be terminated by a first cause, which we call
God.
3 The Cosmological Argument. There must have been a time
when no physical things existed. But, since physical things exist
now, there must have been something non-physical to bring
them into existence, and that something we call God

4.The Argument from Degree. We notice that things in the world
differ. There are degrees of, say, goodness or perfection. But
we judge these degrees only by comparison with a maximum..
Humans can be both good and bad, so the maximum goodness
cannot rest in us. Therefore there must be some other maximum
to set the standard for perfection, and we call that
maximum God

5. The Teleological Argument, or Argument from Design. Things
in the world, especially living things, look as though they
have been designed. Nothing that we know looks designed
unless it is designed. Therefore there must have been a designer,
and we call him God.* Aquinas himself used the analogy of an
arrow moving towards a target, but a modern heat-seeking
anti-aircraft missile would have suited his purpose better

The first 3 are just 3 different ways to say one thing. The most compelling one is the arugment from design which Darwin tore to threads with his evolution theory.

 

[azanon]

I believe there is a being or whatever...that some call God. But I don't believe in any dogma. I guess that makes me adogmatic. I don't follow organized religions or cults.

In case someone asks in the future, you're a Deist. Just wanted you armed with the proper (and non-verbose) term.

 

[backbreaker]

note that he did not say the defination of a freethinker is... he said that His defination of a freethinker is... and he's more than entitiled to his opinion, no different that what is hot for me might not be hot to you

A freethinker to me is someone who thinks freely

 

[TheHumanist]

I have a thought that you might say all I just said in my last post as only as a statement of opinion, but I was hoping at least you would respond rather just dismiss it. Let me try to put my argument forward in better terms then and hopefully avoid as much sematic arguments (despite the fact that words are important) as best as I could.

You say that any person well educated should see religion in its truest form. Another form of a Matrix. Those who follows a religion is thenceforth a person who is on a lesser intellectual pillar. Those who follow a religion, who have a place for spirtuality is therefore not a freethinker and thus lower in the intellectual rung. This is your statement reworded to my thinking, is that correct?

If so, I counter back that many of the past great thinkers, leaders, and role models were people who followed some type of faith. They have a belief in something and their actions help better the world.

(Please Note the people I named can still be cited with flaws, I would like to counter ahead that even the wisest people still have flaws can be critisied for them)

Pope John Paul II is hailed today as one of the greatest men of the 20th century. He revered as a symbol of tolerance and understanding and help push the Catholic Church to become open to change. His notes and writings on his view on religion and philosophy is studied, discussed, and influence many leaders today and will be for years to come. Yet, he is the Pope, should be considered a lesser man in the intellectual rung for his belief in God? If he was a true freethinker, should he leave the Church, or should as a freethinker be aware of the facts and make their opinion.

Martin Luther King is hailed today as well for his courage and his beliefs for the world. You just noted him yourself, wasn't he a reverand?

Well, I think you got my point without writing about more people.


You are entitled to your own definition of "freethinker," my earlier statement did not meant you are alone in your thought, but to point out that I believe the disagreement is the idea that someone who have a faith is a person who is a lower thinker while a person who doesn't (or out of those type of people) are the ones who are the wisest. Basically, it seems you are placing a disdain on those who have a faith (Let me remind you at this point that I'm agnostic, I'm arguing on the grounds that a person should not be look down intellectually or otherwise for a person's personal belief).

 

[Bible_Belt]

I would have considered this an unwise move. If I was your dad, or advisor, I would have strongly discouraged you from doing this.

Gratz on your win, but even in hindsight, I wouldn't have advised it...

I just think you made an unwise decision; but of course I fully realize that's an opinion...

Wow, your viewpoint seems skewed and slanted for someone who puts so much faith in logic and reason. If I had been part of the gay club, and that club had been kicked out of the school simply for being unpopular, in complete violation of everyone's Constitutional rights, then it would have been a wise decision to fight back, right?

Although I signed on to the suit not caring if it was the end of my legal career, the end result has been quite the opposite. Most attorneys here in the bible belt self-identify as Christians, and the lawsuit distinguishes me in a positive way. I was part of something important, even if you disagree with the cause involved, we set the current most important precedent in this country about student religious organizations at state schools. While other students were studying the law, we made the law. Now other students will study what we have done, and at least for the time being, every state-funded school in the country still gets to have a religious club if the students there want one, all because of our case. None of us who sued did it for career reasons, but coincidentally, everyone is doing very well career-wise. It is pretty easy to find another Christian attorney to hire you, when they see you as furthering an important cause. I can only speak for myself and my friends, but faith has helped all of our careers.

 

[j-flex]

I cant understand how people can join cults (different Thread)

ok, lets get this clear, I understand how people can believe in mainstream religions, but i CANT understand people who join cults/sects.

Now if you are going to say they are the same, dont even post here.

And stop with that christianity bullchit, dont post here neither.

Believing in a cult is against conventional wisdom, the stories are so radical and so easily disaproved to know its full of lies (mainstream religions are harder to crack).


how somebody can believe that is wrong to going to hospitals just because according to a guy, GOD says so.

how can somebody blow up airplanes just because a guy that said he can talk to god, told him that.

i mean thats just stupid, you need to have blind faith, and what are the techniques people use to brainwash you that bad??

 

[backbreaker]

this post just shows you paid no attention to what was said, becuase your question WAS answered in the last thread, as clear as day.

The only difference between a cult and a religion are the amount of people who believe.

 

[cordoncordon]

If you guys want to know the origins of Christianity, just watch this, especially the first third of it starting about 5 minutes in. Christianity is just a made up religion (like all religions) that has almost its entire premise based on ASTROLOGY, and more specifically the sun. Get it? The sun? The SON-Jesus? They also borrowed extensively from all kinds of other religions, even pagans-or people that believed in animal gods water gods, all kinds of gods. Religion is a way that the powers that be use to control the masses, always has been that way, always will be.

It's all BS. Anyway, watch this then tell me Jesus was a God of some sort lol. I mean, does that even make any sense to you in todays modern world? "yeah, there was some guy who walked on water and who healed people and saved people and in a few years he's just going to magically "appear" and save all the believers and the rest of us will go to hell and burn". Ok. Makes sense to me lol.

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

 

[Phyzzle]

If you guys want to know the origins of Christianity, just watch this, especially the first third of it starting about 5 minutes in. Christianity is just a made up religion (like all religions) that has almost its entire premise based on ASTROLOGY, and more specifically the sun. Get it? The sun? The SON-Jesus?

:crackup:

Wait, no, dude, you're talking craziness. Did the word "son" exist back when Christianity was founded? Did the word "sun"? Of course not; I have no idea why you would see any relationship.

But yeah, the migration of stories from Horus to Appollo to Jesus, and the migration of other Middle East legends to Noah and Moses? Very compelling.

 

[cordoncordon]

:crackup:

Wait, no, dude, you're talking craziness. Did the word "son" exist back when Christianity was founded? Did the word "sun"? Of course not; I have no idea why you would see any relationship.

Umm...I have no idea what you are laughing about. Watch the first 45 minutes of that link I posted there, starting about 5 minutes in-it makes the connection pretty clearly.

I mean there are so many connections of Christianity and astrology its not even close to being a debate imo. The three wisemen (kings) visiting Jesus which are really the three constellations lined up perfectly with the rising sun (dont remember there names) on what day? Thats right..Dec 25. The sun reaching its lowest point in the sky and then rising from then on on what day? Thats right dec 25. When was jesus widely accepted as born? Thats right Dec 25. I could go on and on.

Just watch the movie you're going to feel like a fool in about one hour. I love people that laugh at others and have no idea what they are talking about.

Pure ignorance.

 

[cordoncordon]

:crackup:

Wait, no, dude, you're talking craziness. Did the word "son" exist back when Christianity was founded? Did the word "sun"? Of course not; I have no idea why you would see any relationship.

But yeah, the migration of stories from Horus to Appollo to Jesus, and the migration of other Middle East legends to Noah and Moses? Very compelling.

As for as the word son existing when Christianity was created, ah yeah? Since the beginnings of Christiantiy the whole premise was that God's son died for our sins and someday rise again to save us all.

Hello????

 

[cordoncordon]

And btw that movie gets really good like I said about 7-8 minutes in. The first few minutes are no visuals with a man talking. It gets great from there trust me.

 

[Phyzzle]

I'm watching it now. I see no connection made between the word "son" and the word "sun" in this movie. A relationship between Jesus and sun-gods, yes, but nothing between those words. I think you made a mistake there. There can't be a relationship. The Latin word for son was not "son".