how can people join cults and believe them?

[backbreaker]

Judging by your last post and this one, you seem to think that Richard Dawkins is the spokesman for atheists/Agnostics. On this point, you are wrong. I'm far less interested in one man's opinion as I am an entire community of people. If you're interested in the latter, get to Googling.

On this point, some people would say they are 100.0% sure there are no Gods. Using Dawkins scale, some would rate themselves as a 7.



It's not an oxymoron. Are agnostics theists? (I'm assuming you would concede, no). Then they are, by default, a-theists. You're either a theist or you're not.

On a more practical note, I don't personally advise alienating the agnostics. There are few enough of us as it is grouping the both.



I haven't read the book, but I'm guessing you just misunderstood him.

No I don't think he is the spokesman, however because that is the first thought that popped into my mind, it's only right to give credit to what I was about to say to the person who actually said it, dont' you think?


you can not believe in a higher power and not be thiest. Pantheists don't believe in a supernatural God at all, but use the word God as a supernatural[FONT=&quot] synonym for Nature

I'm in CA.. I go though this every other day. And dont' think I'm swiping at you. I'm not. You can disagree withs omeone and not be mad/bitter/angry with them. I just happen to have in my head a different defination of what exaclty IS an athiest.
[/FONT]

 

[azanon]

you can not believe in a higher power and not be thiest. Pantheists don't believe in a supernatural God at all, but use the word God as a supernatural[FONT=&quot] synonym for Nature

Correct on the first sentence. On the second sentence, I have no interest in arguing semantics. Semantic arguments are silly, IMO.

Google weak atheist vs strong atheist; you'll get plenty of hits. I'm merely the messenger on this.

I'm in CA.. I go though this every other day. And dont' think I'm swiping at you. I'm not. You can disagree withs omeone and not be mad/bitter/angry with them. I just happen to have in my head a different defination of what exaclty IS an athiest.

[/FONT]

Twice now you've brought up the issue of liking vs. not liking me, or swiping vs. not swiping. Why are you so worried about it? I'm just debating an issue with you. It continues to be no big deal to me. Speaking of doing something every other day........ (me debating. ;-) ) In any event, I suggested in my first post on this that not everyone subscribes to the weak atheist vs. strong atheist characterization. Heck, we know you don't so we already have proof of that!

 

[Bible_Belt]

Both of you put a lot of thought into opposing a belief system for the sake of not being manipulated by it. But if your own belief system is a diametric opposite, have you not then been manipulated in that sense?

 

[azanon]

Both of you put a lot of thought into opposing a belief system for the sake of not being manipulated by it.

I don't oppose any belief system to avoid manipulation. Quite frankly, I don't even personally view it as a choice since the default is to be born with no beliefs. I simply tell you, matter-of-fact, with sheer open honesty, I don't believe the viewpoints of Christians are true. I don't believe in green Martians either. The only reason the former has more meaning to you is because you happen to believe the former. In any event, the way I see it BB, you and I aren't all that different. Of all the world religions out there, you only believe in one more than I do.

So, avoiding the manipulation inherent in being a Christian is merely one fringe benefit amongst many.

But if your own belief system is a diametric opposite, have you not then been manipulated in that sense?

Diametric opposites? Backbreaker and I are both Atheists. I simply don't reject also being referred to as an Agnostic whereas he does. The whole discussion really just bordered on semantics.

This being the case, exactly how am I being manipulated in any way? Look I believe in the trinity too; my trinity is Logic, Reason, and Freethought. I'm a slave to all three!

 

[Bible_Belt]

exactly how am I being manipulated in any way?

I would say by your own pride, which is the manipulation inherent in being an Atheist. For any of us to think that we are beyond manipulation is, well, prideful. But that's Atheism.

Look I believe in the trinity too; my trinity is Logic, Reason, and Freethought. I'm a slave to all three!

That's the trap of being intelligent. I make no argument that athiests/agnostics dominate the academic world. There are a lot of smart Christians, but there are probably more smart Atheists. But if you look at the very smartest people - they're just as fvcked up as anyone else. Being intelligent is not the end-all be-all of existence, or the smartest people would be happier and more fulfilled.

 

[azanon]

exactly how am I being manipulated in any way?

I would say by your own pride, which is the manipulation inherent in being an Atheist. For any of us to think that we are beyond manipulation is, well, prideful. But that's Atheism.

Why are you twisting my words? Let me just assume we have a misunderstanding. To be clear, I'm not beyond manipulation. We all have manipulative forces to contend with each and every day. But I would claim to have far fewer than a Christian since a Christian is supposed to have as his/her #1 agenda, to further the Kingdom of God. Certainly following others rules (person or perceived being) is inherently more manipulative than playing by your own (rules).

Look I believe in the trinity too; my trinity is Logic, Reason, and Freethought. I'm a slave to all three!

That's the trap of being intelligent. I make no argument that athiests/agnostics dominate the academic world. There are a lot of smart Christians, but there are probably more smart Atheists. But if you look at the very smartest people - they're just as fvcked up as anyone else. Being intelligent is not the end-all be-all of existence, or the smartest people would be happier and more fulfilled.

I have seen studies that show positive correlation between education level and happiness. I think it was that, and not IQ, meaning there are certainly average or below average people with significant degrees. But of course you can get a Ph. D and be a Christian, so it's not necessarily an either/or decision.

In saying that, I'm not necessarily guaranteeing more happiness if one rejects their Gods. My happiest years certainly are the ones "post-christian", but that doesn't mean I'd be the case for everyone.

Don't knock it until you try it though! All it takes is saying I no longer believe that which I had no proof for anyway! Letting go of the fear was also liberating for me. If you ask me, the fear of God is really the beginning of ignorance and slavery.

 

[backbreaker]

I don't oppose any belief system to avoid manipulation. Quite frankly, I don't even personally view it as a choice since the default is to be born with no beliefs. I simply tell you, matter-of-fact, with sheer open honesty, I don't believe the viewpoints of Christians are true. I don't believe in green Martians either. The only reason the former has more meaning to you is because you happen to believe the former. In any event, the way I see it BB, you and I aren't all that different. Of all the world religions out there, you only believe in one more than I do.

So, avoiding the manipulation inherent in being a Christian is merely one fringe benefit amongst many.



Diametric opposites? Backbreaker and I are both Atheists. I simply don't reject also being referred to as an Agnostic whereas he does. The whole discussion really just bordered on semantics.

This being the case, exactly how am I being manipulated in any way? Look I believe in the trinity too; my trinity is Logic, Reason, and Freethought. I'm a slave to all three!

what he said.

 

[bigjohnson]

you would be suprised to know how many of the world's greatest and brightest minds are complete sceptics of religion.

Being an athiest of today is like being a homosexual of yesterday year and like being african american 150 years ago.. it just was not only fashionnable, it was downright "dirty".

I read this over a lot, and it just sounds like backwards-land from the greater context you gave earlier. Can you expound in a coherent manner please?

 

[Luke Skywalker]

For all you naysayers out there, mark December 2012 on your calander. I believe the rapture will occur either on that date or EARLIER, but if it occurs later than this date, then even my understanding on bible prophecy may come to question, because the signs are all here and Jesus is due to return very soon. I have my reasons which combine a conspiracy to blame UFOs on the rapture as evident with some rigged up evidence, and what Jack Van Impe said about the last generation ending 2019 and subtracting the 7 year tribulation to 2012.
Two independent concepts point to 2012.

The end is here folks and I know it's around the corner. I bet these so called atheists and agnostics will duely change their beliefs when they see this world coming apart as we know it.

 

[Redsand426]

For all you naysayers out there, mark December 2012 on your calander. I believe the rapture will occur either on that date or EARLIER, but if it occurs later than this date, then even my understanding on bible prophecy may come to question, because the signs are all here and Jesus is due to return very soon. I have my reasons which combine a conspiracy to blame UFOs on the rapture as evident with some rigged up evidence, and what Jack Van Impe said about the last generation ending 2019 and subtracting the 7 year tribulation to 2012.
Two independent concepts point to 2012.

The end is here folks and I know it's around the corner. I bet these so called atheists and agnostics will duely change their beliefs when they see this world coming apart as we know it.

You know what? That would be an awesome movie... I think spielberg should hop on that one right away.

 

[synergy1]

Here is a law, or chapter in 48 laws of power which describes cult mentality.

Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.

 

[bigjohnson]

For all you naysayers out there, mark December 2012 on your calander. ....will occur either on that date or EARLIER, but if it occurs later....

Yeah, or before, during, or after. LOL. I could be a prophet too with a disclaimer like that.

32 “But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
33 “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come. 34 “It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert. 35 “Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, ...

 

[azanon]

Play on People’s Need to Believe to Create a Cultlike Following

People have an overwhelming desire to believe in something. Become the focal point of such desire by offering them a cause, a new faith to follow. Keep your words vague but full of promise; emphasize enthusiasm over rationality and clear thinking. Give your new disciples rituals to perform, ask them to make sacrifices on your behalf. In the absence of organized religion and grand causes, your new belief system will bring you untold power.

This is the kind of thing that causes me to pause before I go helping too much on these sorts of things. If we all do our jobs too well and help the masses see the light, then we'll have to come up with something new to maintain that power edge.

One of my most powerful attributes is that I only have to answer to myself and the law. I don't have any self imposed rules other than simply trying not to harm other human beings.

 

[j-flex]

How exactly are they harder (or easier, for that matter) to believe?

ok, first of all, there are all this rumors that is a cult.

then, you have to paaay a lot of money to join

then, they have all this weird beliefs, invisible aliens (come on)

then you have to follow them blindly. eg, never ask questions. if they say you cant donate blood, go to parties, go to hospitals, you dont, eat meat.
thats justs dumb.

you will receive orders from them and you have to do it. : suicide, have sex, give them all your properties.

they wont let you go and will harass you.



a girl tried to make me join a cult, it was a disguise as a improvement workshop. they were charging 3 g`z for 3 days.

they didnt tell me what was all about, they just said it was going to make me "the best man i can be" and i googled it and it was a destructive cult and i confronted the hoe.

 

[BlackJackal]

i said cults, not religions!.

All religions started out as cults before gaining enough followers to become a religion.

 

[PRMoon]

F*ck dude. You can create reasons as to why this forum is a cult. We have a "bible" and many forms of rank and respect around here. Our minds are conditioned to follow orders and believe in things we shouldn't . Cults have existed forever...we just call them "religions" and "governments". Assembly, order, discapline, justice, salvation, indepentance...these are all words that cult leaders beat into the minds of their followers. Where else do you hear things like that??? hmmmmm.

 

[Bible_Belt]

For all you naysayers out there, mark December 2012 on your calander. I believe the rapture will occur either on that date or EARLIER, but if it occurs later than this date, then even my understanding on bible prophecy may come to question, because the signs are all here and Jesus is due to return very soon. I have my reasons which combine a conspiracy to blame UFOs on the rapture as evident with some rigged up evidence, and what Jack Van Impe said about the last generation ending 2019 and subtracting the 7 year tribulation to 2012.
Two independent concepts point to 2012.

The end is here folks and I know it's around the corner. I bet these so called atheists and agnostics will duely change their beliefs when they see this world coming apart as we know it.

Luke, you say a lot of nutty things and have some horrible misunderstandings about women. On a web site where I try to help guys get laid as much as I do, it is hard to be friends with you. But I admire your faith, and I cannot call myself a Christian and not be your friend, no matter how many ridiculous posts you make on sosuave. As long as you hang out here, I will try to help you as much as I can.

First of all, shut the fvck up about the aliens. I have worried about it myself; even thinking about it is a waste of time. Stop it. Secondly, one of the things you should take out of being a Christian is not worrying. If you believe so much in Jesus, then your soul will be fine, at least by your own beliefs. A Christian attorney friend of mine once told me that if there ever was an apocalypse event like an asteroid about to hit earth, then the Christians should all be high-fiving each other while everyone else worries. Stop worrying, especially about your own demise. I can promise you that I live life doing one crazy thing after another with no fear of my own death. If I ever see someone drowning, I am going after them headfirst, and I am a horrible swimmer. That is part of what it means to me to have faith; it is living without fear, or at least a lot less than most people. By the way, having a lack of fear is an alpha trait that is attractive to women.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

firstly, all you enlightened fools should read "Fooled by Randomness" by Taleb. it shows how much more random chance exists in the world, and how people assume there are reasons when there is just randomness. (possible explanation is pointed out by Dawkins in God delusion e.g. reading "intent" into systems simply to make our brains easier for to understand.

secondly, NONE of us are immune to carrying around LOADS of irrational beliefs in our brains, religions and cults, clubs, message boards, schools, political parties, whatever, they just have learned how to tap them, to grow their meme driven matrix.

Do you ever hesitate before you talk to a girl? YOU IRRATIONAL FOOL!
Do you get nervous when cop pulls up behind you? YOU IRRATIONAL FOOL!
Do you like Obama or Hillary or McCain? YOU IRRATIONAL FOOL!

Just learn to examine the memes that enter your brain and sort it against your short term and long term goals you've chosen for yourself.

I'd be the first to sign up for a cult if it would get me easy money and easy disease free virgin pu$$y, and I didn't have to put it on my resume or anything....hmmmm

 

[azanon]

First of all, shut the fvck up about the aliens. I have worried about it myself; even thinking about it is a waste of time. Stop it. Secondly, one of the things you should take out of being a Christian is not worrying. If you believe so much in Jesus, then your soul will be fine, at least by your own beliefs. A Christian attorney friend of mine once told me that if there ever was an apocalypse event like an asteroid about to hit earth, then the Christians should all be high-fiving each other while everyone else worries. Stop worrying, especially about your own demise. I can promise you that I live life doing one crazy thing after another with no fear of my own death. If I ever see someone drowning, I am going after them headfirst, and I am a horrible swimmer. That is part of what it means to me to have faith; it is living without fear, or at least a lot less than most people. By the way, having a lack of fear is an alpha trait that is attractive to women.

On this note, I wanted to make an observation I've had as an Atheist. Strangely enough, from my perspective, Christians seem to be (collectively as a group anyway) more fearful of death than non-Christians. As you explained using logic, it really seems like it should be the other way around..... but on average, it just isn't.

I can only come up with two explanations. One, is that perhaps the naturally more fearful of death amongst us are going to be more readily drawn to religions since most of them offer a solution to the "death problem". The other is just (many of) their beliefs of a hell vs. a heaven and just thinking that there might even be just the chance that they'll be judged and sent to the former.

If "they" are right, I'll go to h*** for one reason; simply because I'm reluctant to believe anything without sufficient proof. It's logical to be skeptical, not amoral. It will have nothing to do with hardened heart, morality, rejecting a so-called gift of life. I can't even consider those things since I don't even believe such a choice exists That's what's so silly about religion. They say I reject God when the truth of the matter is I'd have no problem serving a living God that demanded service provided I believe said God existed! So quite frankly, if I may sit humility aside, I'm just too dam* smart to fall for their highly flawed, guilt driven religion.

To me, death is part of life. Watch the Lion King; I love the way they discussed death there.

 

[azanon]

Another comment here: I think the #1 "religion" is the Pascal's Wager religion.

About 10% of us are atheist/agnostic. Another ~ 15% are Christains. Another 15% are Muslim, Hindu, Budda, Wiccan etc.

The remaining 60% say they are Christain, Muslim, Hindu, ... whatever, log their 2 hours a week in church, synagog, mosque, or worse... go to church on Easter, and for the other 166 of 168 hours of the week, they live a life virtually indistinguishable from someone like me. I think most that do this do so subconsciously so that all of the bases are covered hoping to get whatever rewards are promised in the afterlife, avoiding the possible permanent punishments, while serving themselves while on earth. Cake-eaters, basically. This way of rationalizing is covered by Pascal's Wager.

I think its pretty arrogant of these people to think they are going to live like me 166 of 168 hours, and I'm going to go to h*** whereas they're going to go to heaven. I laugh at these people.