Hot Girl Demands Good Dinner For Date. Smash Or Pass?

[jamesfromhouston]

Hi bros.

Back again with another confusing situation. Recently met a girl from OLD. Solid 9. Ukrainian.

Asked her out for drinks. She made some comments about how its disappointing our first date wasn't a dinner.

Despite that, we made out at the end of the date. She had to go back to sort stuff out with her family.

We talked about Netflix and Chilling on our next outing because at the end of the date, we had a fun chat about sex. Lots of flirting.

Immediately after that date, she asked to see me again this week literally an hour after I got home. I told her I was up for some drinks at a bar and Netflix with her after.

She told me she wanted to have dinner first. I said that's fine, so I was planning it and suggested a spot.

Instead, she rejected my spot and told me she is very particular about food and proposed we go to this more expensive restaurant.

I told her that we can go another time (truthfully, I didn't know her that well to want to even have dinner with her and her asking so specifically really put me off). But she retorted that if I cared enough I'd take her.

I am now a bit confused because I have never met a demanding girl in my experience of dating. Never had a girl who really wanted to hangout or ****, be so demanding or picky about dinner spots. In a way it makes me feel that she is playing me for good food.

Then again, maybe some girls do expect a good dinner before ****ing. I really don't know.

Some alarm bells in my head are going off telling me to next her but at the same time, she was open to chilling with me over Netflix after.

What do you guys think?

 

[GearsGod310]

How expensive we talking?
$300 - $400?


For future reference - Because you already cancelled on her..
Some chicks expect you to invest in them before you smash. Been there before.
You ever seen those girls on IG at the finest dining spots with delicious food all over their stories but never post who they're with.
All for social media. Regardless, some of these men taking them out to these pricey dinners are smashing. lol

But,
If you can spend a couple hundred without it hurting your wallet and you really see genuine interest & feel genuine sexual tension.
I'd do it for the lay idc. Feel it out. We all know when a bitxh is into us, cmon man. If you see she's just along for the cash and has no true desire in you I would next her because she's just going to play you.

Just know if you plan on keeping her as a plate it's time to forget about those nights for drinks at the bar and going back to the crib to smash. When you guys date she will expect a nice dinner possibly every time.

I usually don't keep chicks like this very long. Gets pricey.

3 things can happen.

- If you can really feel out the situation correctly. You will take her to dinner go back to the crib - Escalate and smash.

- You can take her out to dinner. Take her back to your crib and she will say she's on her period. LOL.

- If you already cancelled she probably already nexted you in her head cause you won't put out $. - you can probably save yourself from this though if she's actually interested in you.
Genuine desire will get you out almost any situation. Trust me.

 

[Agamemnon43]

It doesn't have to look like a suspicious behavior since she is eastern european, but the problem is now you've already kinda said "no", to which she responded with "if you care about me you'd take me there", which means you are bending to her ultimatum. However, like i said, being from eastern europe myself, it's not so uncommon that they want to test you hard before giving you sex. If you can afford to throw that money away, do it regardless. She could be a great partner, but strict. Anyway, try to escalate after the dinner, of course.

 

[Black Widow Void]

Hi bros.

Back again with another confusing situation. Recently met a girl from OLD. Solid 9. Ukrainian.

Asked her out for drinks. She made some comments about how its disappointing our first date wasn't a dinner.

What do you guys think?

Due to Ukrainian culture, she may not get this, but I've said it to a few women that had the gall

Your response: I didn't realize that we were negotiating a fee for your company. Now that we've established what you are, I'll throw in a quart of malt liquor and some blue eye shadow.

 

[mikedee]

I would pass, this type of girl will make you life a living hell. She will never be satisfied. I'm quite experienced with Russians and Ukrainians, she sees you as a walking wallet. She probably doing the same with a few OLD guys, you fools are going to pay for she's gonna end up fvcking Yura or Artem. EE girls rarely mix with non EE men.

 

[SW15]

Back again with another confusing situation.

If a situation is confusing, it is likely because you have mishandled it. I have mishandled certain situations too.

Recently met a girl from OLD. Solid 9. Ukrainian.

Asked her out for drinks. She made some comments about how its disappointing our first date wasn't a dinner.

Despite that, we made out at the end of the date. She had to go back to sort stuff out with her family.

We talked about Netflix and Chilling on our next outing because at the end of the date, we had a fun chat about sex.

Immediately after that date, she asked to see me again this week literally an hour after I got home.

Good for you for getting the attention of an attractive woman. That's not easy to do.

Also good for you for suggesting drinks in a bar for a first date. That's my standard first date. The Manosphere/pickup artists have suggested for a long time (probably since at least the 2000s) for men to avoid dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. That's what I do. Starting in the early 2010s, I stopped offering dinner dates in restaurants as dates prior to sex for women I've met via in-person stranger approaches or a tech-based method. Most men on this forum meet women by either a tech-based method (swipe app or Instagram DM) or by approaching a stranger in real life. Most men with the ability to meet women from their social circles aren't using SoSuave. They are beta males with good social circles who found LTRs.

You demonstrated enough value and stood firm with your drinks date offer for her to show up for your drinks date and she had a good enough time on it to kiss. You passed that shiit test. It likely would have been better if the kissing was a little bit earlier in the day before the end and you also tried a little bit more to get the first date sex. I perceive that you accepted her frame for no first date sex. That's closer to a failing of a shiit test. Nevertheless, it wasn't awful because she initiated a text message to see you within one hour of the time when she didn't have first date sex with you.

She told me she wanted to have dinner first. I said that's fine, so I was planning it and suggested a spot.

Instead, she rejected my spot and told me she is very particular about food and proposed we go to this more expensive restaurant.

I told her that we can go another time (truthfully, I didn't know her that well to want to even have dinner with her and her asking so specifically really put me off). But she retorted that if I cared enough I'd take her.

I am now a bit confused because I have never met a demanding girl in my experience of dating. Never had a girl who really wanted to hangout or ****, be so demanding or picky about dinner spots. In a way it makes me feel that she is playing me for good food.

This is where the interaction went in a not good direction.

You didn't follow Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 well. Frame is everything. If you talked about Netflix & Chill, then the offer has to be Netflix & Chill. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not offer drinks, do not offer an activity date. Offer a home date. Also, don't frame it as "Netflix & Chill". Call it a dinner date at home. She has the privilege of being treated to a quality culinary experience because you are able to cook a good meal at home. While I oppose dinner dates in restaurants, I do not oppose having a good, home cooked meal with a woman. Often times, the home cooked meal is followed by sex.

Over the years, I learned cooking skills. I recommend you do that. While you don't need to be an excellent chef, you have to cook a few meals good enough. Don't cook something overly filling because that will reduce her desire for sex.

Women make demands all the time. It's up to you to hold frame and not cater to her desires, especially when you don't desire what she claims to desire.

maybe some girls do expect a good dinner before ****ing. I really don't know.

Some alarm bells in my head are going off telling me to next her but at the same time, she was open to chilling with me over Netflix after.

Yes, there are women that demand dinner dates prior to sex. An Eastern European immigrant to the USA who is known for this is a woman named Kornelija Slunjski (Koko Beaute on social media). She grew up in Croatia and has lived in New York City and Miami. Koko Beaute is the best known example of a woman from a more traditional Eastern European nation that comes to the United States and then adopts the worst traits of White, American women. See her viral video below where she demands a dinner date in a restaurant first date.

Actions speak louder than words. She might have said that she was open to chilling with you over Netflix. I'm not seeing her actions matching those words, but you also didn't hold firm in offering the home date either.

Your frame is so badly damaged here that I'm not sure that you can recover at this point from loss of frame. There's no obvious move here so the likely move is to exit the interaction, start over with someone else, and then hold frame with that woman. You've shown the ability to attract physically attractive women. Have abundance mentality and realize that you will be able to attract a 7.5+ with a good attitude and you will learn from this incident and hold frame better in the future.

You need to read some seduction materials online or watch some more seduction focused YouTube content. I am seeing some errors from you that aren't that good.

I'm quite experienced with Russians and Ukrainians, she sees you as a walking wallet.

Yes, it seems that way. His own behavior of not holding frame has contributed to that. If he held frame better and demonstrated enough value, then she might have adjusted her own expectations and behaviors.

It is common for Eastern European women, especially Russians and Ukrainians, to see Western men as walking wallets. This interaction is also happening in a large USA city (Houston, Texas) under the Western culture.

EE girls rarely mix with non EE men.

I partially disagree with this statement. There are Western men that have gone to Eastern Europe and gotten into successful LTRs with local, Eastern European women.

That said, it isn't easy to do.

Interacting with a woman from Eastern Europe in a major USA city is also different than interacting with a woman from Eastern Europe in Eastern Europe. It's better to interact with an Eastern European woman in Eastern Europe.

I haven't ever traveled to Eastern Europe and seduced there.

 

[mikedee]

If a situation is confusing, it is likely because you have mishandled it. I have mishandled certain situations too.



Good for you for getting the attention of an attractive woman. That's not easy to do.

Also good for you for suggesting drinks in a bar for a first date. That's my standard first date. The Manosphere/pickup artists have suggested for a long time (probably since at least the 2000s) for men to avoid dinner dates in restaurants prior to sex. That's what I do. Starting in the early 2010s, I stopped offering dinner dates in restaurants as dates prior to sex for women I've met via in-person stranger approaches or a tech-based method. Most men on this forum meet women by either a tech-based method (swipe app or Instagram DM) or by approaching a stranger in real life. Most men with the ability to meet women from their social circles aren't using SoSuave. They are beta males with good social circles who found LTRs.

You demonstrated enough value and stood firm with your drinks date offer for her to show up for your drinks date and she had a good enough time on it to kiss. You passed that shiit test. It likely would have been better if the kissing was a little bit earlier in the day before the end and you also tried a little bit more to get the first date sex. I perceive that you accepted her frame for no first date sex. That's closer to a failing of a shiit test. Nevertheless, it wasn't awful because she initiated a text message to see you within one hour of the time when she didn't have first date sex with you.



This is where the interaction went in a not good direction.

You didn't follow Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 well. Frame is everything. If you talked about Netflix & Chill, then the offer has to be Netflix & Chill. Nothing more, nothing less. Do not offer drinks, do not offer an activity date. Offer a home date. Also, don't frame it as "Netflix & Chill". Call it a dinner date at home. She has the privilege of being treated to a quality culinary experience because you are able to cook a good meal at home. While I oppose dinner dates in restaurants, I do not oppose having a good, home cooked meal with a woman. Often times, the home cooked meal is followed by sex.

Over the years, I learned cooking skills. I recommend you do that. While you don't need to be an excellent chef, you have to cook a few meals good enough. Don't cook something overly filling because that will reduce her desire for sex.

Women make demands all the time. It's up to you to hold frame and not cater to her desires, especially when you don't desire what she claims to desire.



Yes, there are women that demand dinner dates prior to sex. An Eastern European immigrant to the USA who is known for this is a woman named Kornelija Slunjski (Koko Beaute on social media). She grew up in Croatia and has lived in New York City and Miami. Koko Beaute is the best known example of a woman from a more traditional Eastern European nation that comes to the United States and then adopts the worst traits of White, American women. See her viral video below where she demands a dinner date in a restaurant first date.

Actions speak louder than words. She might have said that she was open to chilling with you over Netflix. I'm not seeing her actions matching those words, but you also didn't hold firm in offering the home date either.

Your frame is so badly damaged here that I'm not sure that you can recover at this point from loss of frame. There's no obvious move here so the likely move is to exit the interaction, start over with someone else, and then hold frame with that woman. You've shown the ability to attract physically attractive women. Have abundance mentality and realize that you will be able to attract a 7.5+ with a good attitude and you will learn from this incident and hold frame better in the future.

You need to read some seduction materials online or watch some more seduction focused YouTube content. I am seeing some errors from you that aren't that good.



Yes, it seems that way. His own behavior of not holding frame has contributed to that. If he held frame better and demonstrated enough value, then she might have adjusted her own expectations and behaviors.

It is common for Eastern European women, especially Russians and Ukrainians, to see Western men as walking wallets. This interaction is also happening in a large USA city (Houston, Texas) under the Western culture.



I partially disagree with this statement. There are Western men that have gone to Eastern Europe and gotten into successful LTRs with local, Eastern European women.

That said, it isn't easy to do.

Interacting with a woman from Eastern Europe in a major USA city is also different than interacting with a woman from Eastern Europe in Eastern Europe. It's better to interact with an Eastern European woman in Eastern Europe.

I haven't ever traveled to Eastern Europe and seduced there.

"I partially disagree with this statement. There are Western men that have gone to Eastern Europe and gotten into successful LTRs with local, Eastern European women"

When it happens, it's usually with the ugly ones. I've been living in EE for 5 years, I've never seen a foreigners with a hot Russian/Ukrainian/Czech/Slovak etc girlfriend. Never.
Im a exception, but Im honest, I dated tons of mind blowing Slavic girls, but fvcked very few. Like you said, not impossible but difficult. It's a culture thing.

 

[SW15]

When it happens, it's usually with the ugly ones. I've been living in EE for 5 years, I've never seen a foreigners with a hot Russian/Ukrainian/Czech/Slovak etc girlfriend. Never.
Im a exception, but Im honest, I dated tons of mind blowing Slavic girls, but fvcked very few. Like you said, not impossible but difficult. It's a culture thing.

This is a statement that I agree with in full. It would be quite difficult for a Western man to arrive in EE and get an LTR with an above average looking local woman. The degree of difficulty is reduced for average or below average looking women.

You have more direct experience living in EE than I have.

 

[CornbreadFed]

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Asked her out for drinks. She made some comments about how its disappointing our first date wasn't a dinner.

Impress her, make her dinner.

 

[Foe]

What do you guys think?

I think your the guy I was so proud to hear was f'ing girls on glass balconies during your no contact. What happened, two posts asking why what happened? The medium is the message, screw these iceburgs, head for warmer waters.

 

[RangerMIke]

If you like going to nice restaurants and are something of a 'foodie', then taking a woman out to a nice place as a first date isn't a problem... because it is who you are.

If you take a woman out to a nice place because she wants this and you don't then it is NOT a good idea.

Dating is a way to decern compatibility, if you are hiding who you are because you are trying to impress her then it is very likely that she will pick up on this and not have a lot of respect for you. You are not there to put on a show and entertain a woman... you are there to see if she fits into your life, or if she likes you enough to go on the date because she thinks you have other qualities she appreciates.

For the OP: If a woman expresses that a date wasn't what she expected then she is telling you that you are not compatible... and for you to have a chance, you have to change and do things to overcome what she thinks is your short-coming. It's up to the man to decide if he wants to become a performing grinder monkey hoping to get sex.

 

[JoyDivision1990]

A bit of a different take but I actually see nothing bad about her wanting dinner. Men have their standards (no dinner before f*cking), women have their standards (no f*cking before dinner).

Whar's fair to men should be fair to women, so I don't fault her for that necessarily.

The problem is when women take the dominant position of telling a man how HE should date (take me to dinner). Which is precisely what she did.

That's not her being compliant and accepting your frame (which is feminine), but rather that's HER dictating what your frame should be and taking charge (which is her being masculine).

Generally speaking (there are always exceptions depending on the situation and their particular dynamic), if she's unhappy with what you proposed of drinks, Netflix and Chill, or dinner at yours, then she should have politely declined your invite. And focused on her other options which no doubt she has many.

That's true for all women IMO. Don't tell a man how HE should "properly" date that's for HIM to decide. She doesn't like it? Then decline and move on to next.

Just like it's a man's choice to next women who demand dinner or won't have sex by third date.

EE women who have immigrated to America are typically (not always) entitled AF and dominant. I have worked with a few and they've railroaded their husbands and boyfriends to acquiesing to their frame, it's cringworthy to watch.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Then again, maybe some girls do expect a good dinner before ****ing. I really don't know.

Yes. If she’s not a sloot, she wants a public date where you invest something before giving it up. If you bang without a date, she is a whvre. Lot of guys don’t want to admit this but it is true.

Good is subjective. It’s a red flag if she demands a five star restaurant. Any good tasting spot should be fine.

 

[JoyDivision1990]

It’s a red flag if she demands a five star restaurant. Any good tasting spot should be fine.

Good point. Not only did she demand dinner but went further demanding dinner at 5-star restaurant!

IDK OP, up to you but I wouldn't advise it. You may as well hire a beautiful escort because that's what this is akin to imo.

 

[Juanto]

I do not oppose having a good, home cooked meal with a woman. Often times, the home cooked meal is followed by sex.

Bingo. This has always worked wonders for me.

 

[SW15]

she wants a public date where you invest something before giving it up.

She already got her in public date with drinks in a bar.

If you like going to nice restaurants and are something of a 'foodie', then taking a woman out to a nice place as a first date isn't a problem... because it is who you are.

This is a valid point but I don't think it applies to most men. Most men are not something of a 'foodie'. Even for 'foodie' men, there are better options for dates to lead to sex than dinner dates in a restaurant.

 

[CornbreadFed]

No offense Op, but I didn't expect this topic to be created by you. This is honestly some novice level stuff and now I am questioning rather you are posing or not. You might be in a rut and I get it, but you should know that wining and dining a girl before she has submitted to you is a terrible idea. Even if you do get sex out of it, she will always look at you as a beta male provider.

 

[JoyDivision1990]

If you like going to nice restaurants and are something of a 'foodie', then taking a woman out to a nice place as a first date isn't a problem... because it is who you are.

I agree with this. And if our OP was/is a foodie and enjoys dining out himself and taking first or second dates to nice restaurants, then that's fine imo.

That's not what happened here. HE asked for drinks/Netflix and Chill. SHE didn't like that idea and proceeded to take charge and control the frame by demanding dinner.

I read a post last week from a poster asking how you check for compliance before the first date or during.

That is how. By observing her reaction to your date idea(s) and if she's agreeable. NOT rejecting, taking charge and dictating the frame demanding dinner instead.

Like I said, she doesn't like? Politely decline, you're not a match.

Am I the only one seeing this as a problem over and above her wanting dinner?

 

[EyeBRollin]

She already got her in public date with drinks in a bar.

Most girls will find that insufficient. That is a “meet and greet” not a date.