Honor: Do we really still care?

[SDBmania]

I've been thinking about something lately. It seems to me, after reading some posts, that honor is not something we seem to care about as much anymore. I for one live my a strick code of ethics and morals. I also have a stong sense of honor when I look at myself. Now, my ethics and morals do involve my religious upbringing. However, most of it comes from the law and the sense of right, justice. In other words, I don't think premarital sex is wrong. Where as the average religious person's morals would dissagree.

What I'm curious to see is what all of you here think about honor?
I mean, in society, we still see honor as having some importance. For example, in law, millitary service, law enforcement, and most government careers honor brought up. You swear oaths. When I had to be on a jury a few weeks ago, I swore an oath and I felt a great honor in doing my duty. In day-to-day, I think honor is laughed at. I think people don't believe in it as much, which I believe is sad. In some cultures, honor is respected and important.

So, not to judge any of you, I'd just like to get a general consensus of what is believed here about honor.

 

[rgeere]

I think that honor isn't something a DJ should think about. Not because there is no honor is being a DJ, but that a DJ just naturally does all the things that honor entails and doesn't need to be told or reminded of what honor is.

 

[SDBmania]

Originally posted by rgeere
I think that honor isn't something a DJ should think about. Not because there is no honor is being a DJ, but that a DJ just naturally does all the things that honor entails and doesn't need to be told or reminded of what honor is.

Interesting point of view. I've never thought about it like that.

 

[squirrels]

You're confusing honor, ethics, morals, and religion. All of which are man-made creations.

Yes, a real man always acts honorably. But HE defines what is honorable and what is not. When you take that oath, YOU were deciding that this is what YOU would uphold as honorable. They didn't instill that charge in you, you took it up for yourself.

What is it specifically we're talking about, here? Because you didn't just pull this question out of your ass. There's something you wanted to do, but your definition of honor prevents you from doing it, but you're not confident in your definition of honor, otherwise you wouldn't be asking a bunch of Internet forum goons for their input.

Let's hear it.

 

[JT47319]

Paladin.

He said paladin.

[sadly shake my head]

Stop with the D&D already.

 

[SDBmania]

Originally posted by squirrels
You're confusing honor, ethics, morals, and religion. All of which are man-made creations.

What is it specifically we're talking about, here? Because you didn't just pull this question out of your ass. There's something you wanted to do, but your definition of honor prevents you from doing it, but you're not confident in your definition of honor, otherwise you wouldn't be asking a bunch of Internet forum goons for their input.

Let's hear it.

Umm, what do you mean? I wanted to see what you all thought about honor and it means to you. This is supposed to be an intellectual topic. I believe that to have honor, you must to what is right, which is not always the popular choice. To me, honor is many things. So, ah that's what I think. Obviously, criminals don't have honor, but I assume that being a DJ has some sence of honor to it.

Anyway, just wanted to open up discussion. I am confident in who I am and what I believe honor to be. I'm not asking what I should think, just what you all think. Just to see where I stand. Minority or Majority, either way, my beliefs won't change.

 

[SDBmania]

Originally posted by JT47319
Paladin.

He said paladin.

[sadly shake my head]

Stop with the D&D already.

? I didn't know there was a paladin charator in that game. I don't play it anyways. I'm more into Warcraft 3 and the Quest for Glory series, but that's another topic.

Anyway, you didn't know that paladins really exsisted? They just didn't have magical powers. Holy warriors they were. I think many knights of the Crusade believed to be paladins(can't back that up though).

 

[HHloser2]

Originally posted by SDBmania
? I didn't know there was a paladin charator in that game. I don't play it anyways. I'm more into Warcraft 3 and the Quest for Glory series, but that's another topic.

Anyway, you didn't know that paladins really exsisted? They just didn't have magical powers. Holy warriors they were. I think many knights of the Crusade believed to be paladins(can't back that up though).

Your right, Paladins did exist.

 

[rgeere]

Honor, morals, and societal rules have often been used or rather misused to sunjugate people throughout history.

One example is the belief in chivalry.

Go to this website and read all of it, especially note this part which iI have conviently copy & pasted.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03691a.htm

Third Period: Secular Chivalry

After the Crusades chivalry gradually lost its religious aspect. In this, its third period, honour remains the peculiar worship of knighthood. This spirit is manifested in the many knightly exploits which fill the annals of the long contest between England and France during the Hundred Years War. The chronicles of Froissart give a vivid picture of this age, where bloody battles alternate with tournaments and gorgeous pageants. Each contending nation has its heroes. If England could boast of the victories of the Black Prince, Chandos, and Talbot, France could pride herself on the exploits of Du Guesclin, Boucicaut, and Dunois. But with all the brilliance and glamour of their achievements, the main result was a useless shedding of blood, waste of money, and misery for the lower classes. The amorous character of the new literature had contributed not a little to deflect chivalry from its original ideal. Under the influence of the romances love now became the mainspring of chivalry. As a consequence there arose a new type of chevalier, vowed to the service of some noble lady, who could even be another man's wife. This idol of his heart was to be worshipped at a distance. Unfortunately, notwithstanding the obligations imposed upon the knightly lover, these extravagant fancies often led to lamentable results.

 

[SDBmania]

Originally posted by HHloser2
Your right, Paladins did exist.

Yes! I knew they did! Ah, yeah.

rgeere,
You have a point, but that does not mean that honor is obsolete. Honor, I believe, has evolved from the time period. That is very interesting thought thanks.

 

[bonjove]

Originally posted by SDBmania

rgeere, You have a point, but that does not mean that honor is obsolete. Honor, I believe, has evolved from the time period. That is very interesting thought thanks.

Honor can also be a very AFCish thing. But that all depends on the context.

 

[SDBmania]

Originally posted by bonjove
Honor can also be a very AFCish thing. but that all depends on the context.

Well, I don't know. I suppose you are right, however, true honor is not AFCish. True honor involves being strong and staying true to your nature. Not betraying who you are. But, honor its self does come in many forms.

Honor also means that you help those who are in aid. It is also sacrifise.

But, there are many different levels of honor and I believe that the Paladin( or the concept) is the highest.

To seek, to learn, to do. The paladin is a charactor that most of us do not need to be. He travels from land to land to help those who are in need, he is heoric, but he does not seek glory or gain. He is a paladin because it is his will. This is how I see the paladin.

I certainly do go around looking for people to help, but I am there for those who need me. I hope that is not concidered AFCish.

Perhaps someone thinking that honor means that you must do all you can for others without helping yourself, that is not honor. You must be there for you first, then be there for others.

 

[MindOverMatter]

I have mixed feelings. Honor is a good quality. There are some things I will never do (like date a friend's ex or sister, or date a married woman that has a family - im never gonna be a homewrecker).

Other then that, it's a dog eat dog world out there. If you are too honorable, people will take advantage of you, and will think you're a pushover. Also, honor does not work in conjunction with seduction. To make a woman worship the ground you walk on, you will have to be a manipulative person. Is it considered dishonorable by society, and women in general? Yes. Do women do it to us? Yes. In the end, is it for a good cause? I'd say so.

Player Supreme once said this, and it stuck with me: you need to be like the snake in garden of Eden. Original quote (http://www.sosuave.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51675&highlight=for+real+play):

you need to be like the serpent in the garden of eden.

you can only seek to control a woman. You can never own or supress em. that's why it's cop and blow in our game.

and the art of our methodology should be to do so with craftiness, just like the Serpent; a deftness of touch that makes it so that the woman does not resent being under your "spell", under your control; rather, she enjoys it, because you make it enjoyable to her.

women works best with the use of pleasure, either providing or withholding, as the means of control. when you do or say things a woman finds pleasurable, that b*itch will make the effort to put herself in the position to receive more.

I think this quote describes the whole art of seduction really well.

On a side note, I think that by controling a woman through providing/withholding pleasure is in sense a form of ownership, and even tho Player says LTR-seekers will be disgusted by his tip, I think that this theory can be expanded into other relationship categories.

But back to the original post. It's a dog eat dog world out there, and if you want to achieve personal happyness, you will have to get your hands dirty sooner or later.

I think that being fully honorable, or fully dishonorable will in the end get you nowhere. You need to be both in order to be a complete human being.

 

[SDBmania]

I disagree with some of your statement. I don't think relationships about having complete control. I don't want to control a woman, but I don't want her to control me. An ideal relationship should be 50/50. I think you can have a successful life without losing honor. Suduction and stealth tacticts, I believe, are not nessiarily dishonorable. However, I do not use them. When I get a relationship, it will be on merits, not cuz I tricked her into.

 

[Dirtheart]

I've let honour and ethics rule my life for a long time, but I'm seriously noticing the drawbacks and am starting to see it as a huge restriction.

Is it considered dishonorable by society, and women in general? Yes. Do women do it to us? Yes.

Exactly. And not just women either.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

I'm as honourable as a Paladin, for I am a Knight of the Templar!

Hear my roar, quake in thy boots, and invest in my bank!

 

[Kineti[C]harm]

I do whatever I want when I want too aslong as I don't purposely or directly hurt anyone or break any laws. I have fun and live by that.

 

[SDBmania]

Originally posted by Kineti[C]harm
I do whatever I want when I want too aslong as I don't purposely or directly hurt anyone or break any laws. I have fun and live by that.

That's a perfect example of what I consider to be an honorable attitude.

 

[LogicalOptimist]

There's a severe lack of honor and integrity in most places I see today. Especially with our younger generation (<25). I think we're the Sesame Street generation (you're special, you're entitled, it's never your fault, enjoy life without responsibility). I also see it in places and moments where the attitude is "survive!" Somtimes it's legit, but folks adopt that attitude way too quickly in my opinion. Look at this board for some examples of guys who see sex and sexuality as a life or death struggle.

Schools: why work hard and pass, or not work at all and fail, when I can simply cheat and have the best of both worlds? I've seen cheating in every class I've been in back at Uni., and I'm also talking about grad school.

BF / GF: OK, everyone, hands up. Now, keep your hand raised if you've never: cheated, have been cheated on, or have a very close friend or family member in either case. Wow! Don't all drop your hands at once, now!

I can't imagine my life without honor partially because I have a featherweight conscience. If I don't do the right thing, it will bug me and steal some sleep. But also because the man I most respect in life lead a life of heroic virtue, and even though I know I can never come close to him, I can still try.

Saints do walk among us... I've met one...

Originally posted by SDBmania
... the Quest for Glory series ...

Yeah, they sure don't make them like they used to.

 

[SDBmania]

LogicalOptimist, I like your style and I also agree with you.

Hehe, Quest for Glory is where first learned about honor. My sense of honor comes from many sources.

And I do think too much importance is focused on sex, though it doesn't really bother me. It only does when masculenity is measured on sex, I feel such a measurement is foolhardy.