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her fiance died.....

asd77840

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What up fellas. Long time no see.

I'm looking for a little insight on a situation that I have never encountered before. I've begun dating a girl whose fiancé died unexpectedly about 2 or 3 years ago. It seems he was perfectly healthy until a regularly scheduled checkup at the dentist, during which he contracted some kind of rare virus. He fought it for several months, and just when it looked like he had beaten it, things took a rapid turn for the worse and he died. She didn’t tell me this; rather, her friend "volunteered" this information to me without her knowledge and without me asking.

I only met this girl just a few months ago, and our first coffee date was a week ago. She never mentioned the fiancé during our convo. I view her as LTR material.

How should I handle this? Has anyone ever dated someone who was never married and whose fiancé died before the wedding could occur?

What I am particularly concerned about is whether or not she is ready to move on. Normally in my relationships with girls I am pretty aggressive and don’t deny my sexuality. You know, the usual DJ stuff that we read here on this site and on mASF. But I can't get a good reading on her emotional state. I still tease her and sh*t, but overall I'm at a loss how to manage this one. I see this as an especially delicate situation because if I go too slow I'll get the LJBF, but if I go too fast I might push her away.

Any advice?
 

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Omega

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It was 2-3 years ago. It was her fiance, not her husband. She's going out with coffee with you, and her friends volunteering information. It is quite apparent that not only is she ready, but her friend wants her to find someone else and be happy.

Since you view her as an LTR, hit it off.
 

Wyldfire

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My fiance died on Dec. 30th of 1999. I was with him for about 5 years. He was shot in the back and killed during what amounted to a home invasion committed as a grudge against his friend. He was disarming one man when the second man shot him in the back three times. I loved him very, very much and we had a wonderful relationship. It took me a very, very long time to open my heart fully to someone else. I was able to form somewhat casual involvements where I frankly could have taken or left the romantic relationships. During this time I had also made friends with a man I met on a political/social issues message board. That friendship was extremely important and helpful to me, and still is. Over the last 5 years I haven't been able to be at all enthused about dating, meeting men or having a relationship. I'm not sure if that's all because of the grief process or it it's because of the confusing feelings I was having about my friend...or a combination of both. It took me a year to know I loved the friend and about 4 years to figure out I loved him both as a friend and romantically. Lord knows he's waited a long a$$ time to finally meet in person, because I just wasn't really ready. I finally am, though.

So...how long this girl's grief process is depends on how good her relationship was. If it wasn't so hot, then she will have an easier time of it than I have. If she had a great relationship with the guy then it might be awhile before she's truly able to give her heart to anyone else. Even if that's where she is at, she can still date...but there's a chance her heart just won't be in it.

I can finally say that after 5 years, I have let someone else in who I've actually even shared more of my heart with than the guy I lost even got...and I honestly didn't think that was possible.

I wouldn't worry so much about the dreaded "friend zone" in this situation. At least in my case, that was the best place to be.
 

MrCode

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Wow Wyldfire, that is one of the saddest things I've read in a while. Pretty horrible. I hope the bastards who did the home invasion were brought to justice.

But I'm glad you have finally moved on, even if it took 5 years. It was probably better you took your time though, as that kind of loss and associated grief are not something you can rush.

Regarding the OP, I think you should just take that information and store it away, and just date her like you would anyone else. The emotional issues related to her loss are not really something you need to worry about until you are more deeply in a relationship. So keep it the teasing and fun and everything you normally do, but avoid any kinds of jokes that involve an ex of her's dying. That would just be plain cruel.
 

Wyldfire

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Yes, MrCode, it was very sad. And no, the man who killed him didn't get the punishment he deserved. He got less than 10 years. The other guy didn't go to jail at all...just got probation. It was royally screwed up. On top of that his mother and father had him cremated and didn't bury his ashes. I wasn't able to even visit him. That made it even more difficult to grieve.

Something like this takes time to work through and get over.
 
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MrCode

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
Something like this takes time to work through and get over.
And based on your comments in the marriage thread you still have commitment issues, probably because you are afraid of losing another person you really love.

I wish you the best and hope you can work through that.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by MrCode
And based on your comments in the marriage thread you still have commitment issues, probably because you are afraid of losing another person you really love.

I wish you the best and hope you can work through that.
Well, my opinion on marriage is more complicated than that. Although I was engaged to the man who died, I kept putting off getting married. Not because I didn't love him. I was married for 10 years to a man who turned out to be a violent and abusive alcoholic. That tends to make you rather hesitant to get married again.
 

asd77840

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Originally posted by Wyldfire

I wouldn't worry so much about the dreaded "friend zone" in this situation. At least in my case, that was the best place to be.


Wyld,

Thank you for your comments. Wow, that's horrible. As callous as I have become, the degree of evil in this world never ceases to trouble me. I am truly sorry for your loss.

I think the concerns I have about this situation are in regard to the physical aspect of the relationship. I am a HUGE believer in the power of kino, and have made it a point to touch her in subtle ways during natural opportunities to do so -- just like I would do any girl.

However, I also know that it is important to kiss a girl sooner rather than later if I want to stay out of the friend zone. Normally I don't worry about what the girl is thinking -- an AFC tendency -- but this case is different. I really don't know how to tell if she is ready for such an intimate act.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by asd77840
Wyld,

Thank you for your comments. Wow, that's horrible. As callous as I have become, the degree of evil in this world never ceases to trouble me. I am truly sorry for your loss.

I think the concerns I have about this situation are in regard to the physical aspect of the relationship. I am a HUGE believer in the power of kino, and have made it a point to touch her in subtle ways during natural opportunities to do so -- just like I would do any girl.

However, I also know that it is important to kiss a girl sooner rather than later if I want to stay out of the friend zone. Normally I don't worry about what the girl is thinking -- an AFC tendency -- but this case is different. I really don't know how to tell if she is ready for such an intimate act.
There are plenty of ways to let her know you're interested romantically without trying to kiss her. I'd say you should just come right out and tell her that you're interested and that you're aware of her loss and would be interested in dating her once she's sure she's ready to move on. She won't be offended by that and will actually probably like you even more for being respectful about her loss and grieving process.
 

MrCode

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
There are plenty of ways to let her know you're interested romantically without trying to kiss her. I'd say you should just come right out and tell her that you're interested and that you're aware of her loss and would be interested in dating her once she's sure she's ready to move on. She won't be offended by that and will actually probably like you even more for being respectful about her loss and grieving process.
Come on now Wyldfire, you know that is some pretty AFC advice. A guy should never tell a girl he is interested, come on. That is totally the chump thing to do. Maybe you think in this situation it is the best thing. But in my opinion, it is not.

If she is not ready to move on when he tries to get more physical, she will let him know. Just be prepared for that possibility asd77840 and you will be fine (i.e. don't get all pissy and b!tchy like an AFC would if she rebuffs your advances.)
 
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Wyldfire

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Originally posted by MrCode
Come on now Wyldfire, you know that is some pretty AFC advice. A guy should never tell a girl he is interested, come on. That is totally the chump thing to do. Maybe you think in this situation it is the best thing. But in my opinion, it is not.

If she is not ready to move on when he tries to get more physical, she will let him know. Just be prepared for that possibility asd77840 and you will be fine (i.e. don't get all pissy and b!tchy like an AFC would if she rebuffs your advances.)
I'm not telling him to act asexual...only that he should not be too pushy with someone in a situation such as this. It's pretty common for women who have lost a significant other to death to feel a lot of guilt when they attempt to move on. It's very likely if he moves too fast that it will freak her out and will scare her off. He should work up to things slowly, but without acting like a platonic friend. And there is no difference between telling a girl you're interested and acting like you are. If you weren't interested, you wouldn't be flirting and asking her out. You guys need to recognize that there is a distinct difference between telling someone you're interested and calling them 10 times a day, asking them out daily and having your nose driven firmly up their butts. The "AFC" thing that turns women off is the clinginess, neediness and desperation type behavior. Honesty about being interested never chased a girl off...trying too hard does.
 

MrCode

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Wyldfire,

I get what you are saying and can't say I disagree, but depending on the personality of the girl, telling her you are interested could be detrimental because it removes a lot of the challenge and mystery. Some girls may not care, some might. Of course the cooler the girl is and the less games she plays, it becomes less problematic telling her you are interested. So maybe that can be used as filter ;)

In this case, with this girl, I don't think it will be that bad. But in general, I would avoid it.
 

Wyldfire

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Originally posted by MrCode
Wyldfire,

I get what you are saying and can't say I disagree, but depending on the personality of the girl, telling her you are interested could be detrimental because it removes a lot of the challenge and mystery. Some girls may not care, some might. Of course the cooler the girl is and the less games she plays, it becomes less problematic telling her you are interested. So maybe that can be used as filter ;)

In this case, with this girl, I don't think it will be that bad. But in general, I would avoid it.
You guys do make things so much more complicated than they need to be.

To get and keep a member of the opposite sex all you have to do is make them feel good about themselves while spending time with you and not be too needy/clingy/pushy. Infatuation (feeling "in love") isn't about how you feel about the other person. It's how their presence makes you feel about yourself.
 

DjDreamer

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Originally posted by Wyldfire
You guys do make things so much more complicated than they need to be.

To get and keep a member of the opposite sex all you have to do is make them feel good about themselves while spending time with you and not be too needy/clingy/pushy. Infatuation (feeling "in love") isn't about how you feel about the other person. It's how their presence makes you feel about yourself.
Well put.
 

Bonhomme

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Geez

Wow, that's pretty heavy, Wyld. Good to see you're finally coming out of it.

As for your situation, asd, I third Wildfyre's simple statement. Just enjoy your time with her.

*********

I'm wondering if something like this happened to a gal I've seen a couple times and had the most amazing chemistry in person, but the greatest difficulty getting together with. I could understand flaking after a so-so date, but after a marvelous date that ends with her ramming her tongue down my throat? WTF?
 
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asd77840

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Update

Got this email this morning:


hey there

thanks for the email and mini golf invite, but it's been a rough week and I really need to hit the books this week. I appreciate you inviting me out and I'm sure T**** has told you my history. I want to be honest with you and let you know that I am really not ready to date. I am not even sure if that was even what your intentions were, but I just wanted to be up front with you on where I stand. I hope you're cool with my situation and that we can catch up at one of the social events this semester.



*****************************************

Ok, any advice anyone? I'm all ears.
 

Slickster

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The woman I am seeing currently also lost a fiance about 3-4 years ago in an airplane crash.

For the first while it really didn't seem like it would work for us but as time has gone on she has learned to move on. It just takes time and a whole bunch of patience.
 

asd77840

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Originally posted by Slickster
The woman I am seeing currently also lost a fiance about 3-4 years ago in an airplane crash.

For the first while it really didn't seem like it would work for us but as time has gone on she has learned to move on. It just takes time and a whole bunch of patience.

How did you handle it? Otherwords, how did you treat her and how did you "work with her" to get past this barrier?
 

Slickster

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You know I don't think I treated her any differently than I treat any other woman.

When I had met her I had been reading some of the Doc Love stuff. For the first while I followed the rules about no touching/kino and I was very patient as far as calling and dating her. By the time we had our first kiss she was dying for it and told me so. I guess I just took things very slowly at first. I didn't pressure her at all. Our dates were fun and there wasn't much talk about relationships, future, etc.

After we started seeing each other more regularly I began to see how much the loss of her ex was affecting her. She would cry at odd times for seemingly no reason. She would bring his name up in conversation alot too. That stuff did bother me a bit but I wasn't looking for anything exclusive at the time and basically just let it go. I was supportive but eventually as I spent more and more time with her I had to tell her that I wasn't comfortable with her bringing him up all the time. I basically explained that it wasn't really fair and it was sending me the wrong signals if she was interested in us having a future.

After that things changed for the better however I don't think that the pain from a loss like that EVER goes away. It is something that she will always carry around and while I'm with her I'll have to deal.

My advice will contradict the typical DJ stuff here. As long as you have your head on straight and you're not going to become Mr. Oneitis I suggest that you stay persitant. Let her know that you enjoy her company and whether or not it develops into anything other than friendship you don't care. Continue to invite her on friendly no strings attached dates. Don't make any moves or advances and just try seducing her mind over the long term. However be careful not to become her shoulder to cry on or the guy she uses as an emotional tampon. You don't want that kind of relationship.

You can always keep your eyes open for other prospects but there is nothing wrong with being persitant with a great woman. As long as you don't get obsessive.
 
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