Gunman kills 21 on Virginia Tech campus

[CCKazi007]

See how people go right into blaming other groups or people, or guns or whatever? People need to STOP blaming and START having some damn personal responsibility and accountability.

This kid was a Korean, but he had lived in the United States since he was 8 years old. It wasn't about his nationality...it was about his anger, bitterness and blaming instead of taking responsibility. That is the MAIN problem with society...it's always someone else's or something else's fault. Bull$hit.

Hey he could have been North Korean spy taking orders from the faciast government or he could have been a bipolar/psychopath b*tch. Who cares what race he is? The bottom line is the parents failed to raise him properly and the cops and school didn't do their jobs by protecting the other students.

They should have AT LEAST warned other people who came onto campus that there was a shooting and they HAVEN'T FOUND THE SHOOTER FROM THE FIRST SHOOTING. That's sick he went to get more ammo? If the school was closed down and all classes cancelled, the cops would've found him earlier.

 

[PigAdlemPimp]

I'm not blaming....I'm saying that instead of reveling in each other's anger and bitterness it might be a good idea to encourage people to actually deal with those feelings and learn to take responsibility for their own feelings instead of blaming.

Blaming is the main problem with society...everyone has an excuse why the do things or why things don't work out how they want. Self-responsibility is something that NEEDS to be encouraged on this site and the bad habit of blaming needs to be nipped in the bud right from the get go when a person first shows up on this site.

That's the point I'm attempting to make here. People should think before they post to people who are angry and blaming.

Remember, John Galt, many of the dudes on here made fun of him, he is obviously a social reject, whose stuttering speech and small penis size have caused him the misery of not being able to seduce any hot babes in his life, teasing these types of dudes can result in this type of murder suicide which this gunman in Virginia has commited, these dudes need encouragement or else they can become so built up with anger that they eventually explode, it may seem like a bit of fun at the time to tease them, but when it results in this type of a tragedy you have to realize that it isn't good to stir them up as they are suffering enough already, think about it.

 

[Obsidian]

What was I just saying in that AMOG thread about how dangerous and stupid it can be to fight over a girl?

Pacifism and acting like a wuss are not the answer to any of society's problems, Wyldfire. Let's get that straight right now. Encouraging someone to stand up for themselves -- even if it might cause someone else to resort to violence -- has NOTHING to do with shooting anyone. Resisting an AMOG is all about verbal defense; there just happen to be times when someone will take your words too seriously so you have to be willing to fight in case you get attacked.

Would you prefer that every guy just backed down in every case of possible violence? Is that the kind of man you're attracted to?

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

Wait, wait, wait. As I think more about this, and let vulpine comment...

He killed 33, wounded 20, putting the number of bullets needed at a MINIMUM of 53. Now, the dr's state he put at least 3 bullets in all of his dead victims, making it 66 more bullets. The total is now 119. Add in the misses and bullets shot at the door (confirmed reports), and he's at 130+ bullets. How many clips is that?

That kind of fire power AND accuracy is more than premeditated rage and anguish over a GF. Something of that effect is sheer lunacy. And frankly, it stinks. It smells. There's more to it than just some lonley chinese english major going buck wild on a large campus. Nothing adds up, and right now, the conspiracy theorists have my vote. If there was one gun, one clip, I might buy it. But ONE guy!? 52 shooting victims, not including himself? Even the DUO in Colorado with automatics and bombs didn't get 52. They may have only gotten 6, with the other 6 attributed to the Swat Teams spraying innocent bystanders.

Points of weirdness:

*He manages to shoot and kill someone, wait a few hours, write a note, then go back to a building with ammo, chains, clips, and plans out the largest shoot slaughter in history. How the heck did law enforcement fail? For christ sakes, on ANY campus, you know in 10 minutes who fvcked who. A college campus, regardless of size, is the worst place for secrets, ESPECIALLY for something like this.
*He blows through 130 bullets, supposedly over a failed relationship (isn't this theme old now?)
*He locks the doors with chains, so there's no access/entry? (What did the engineering department, including professors do, run train on his xgf?)
*He manages to kill 33 people and wound 20 more. That's nearly a professional level status, or someone who's been doing it for awhile. He's mid 20's (24, I heard), is it possible he was trained before?
*Doctors confirm he triple shot most of his victims, nonetheless with handguns. That suggests a high level of proficiency, given the requirements of aiming. Don't most professionals triple tap, ie 1/2 to the head/body?
*The toll of dead to wounded is higher. Wouldn't some passinonate xbf be so out of it that he couldn't muster much time/energy to get such a toll or even make that much progress?


I mean no disrespect to the families and victims, as they are not responsible and nothing can be changed to save them, but nothing "adds" up. Lots of bullets and munitions, a forelorn lover (supposedly), yet methodical, planned thinking, a high number of dead, a large total overall, and we're to assume the major plot was the XGF, that he acted alone, and/or wasn't more than some amateur scoring guns?

I don't buy the stuff I'm being pitched.


A-Unit

 

[DJDamage]

This brings back the memories of Rosie and Sellek interview right after columbine shooting:

http://www.nrawinningteam.com/norosie.html

Tom said something smart that has value in today's incident:

Tom: You know, I understand how you feel. This is a really contentious issue. Probably as contentious, and potentially as troubling as the abortion issue in this country. All I can tell you is, rushes to pass legislation at a time of national crisis or mourning, I don't really think are proper. And more importantly, nothing in any of this legislation would have done anything to prevent that awful tragedy in Littleton. What I see in the work I've done with kids is, is troubling direction in our culture. And where I see consensus, which is I think we ought to concentrate on in our culture is...look...nobody argues anymore whether they're Conservatives or Liberal whether our society is going in the wrong direction. They may argue trying to quantify how far it's gone wrong or why it's gone that far wrong, whether it's guns, or television, or the Internet, or whatever. But there's consensus saying that something's happened. Guns were much more accessible 40 years ago. A kid could walk into a pawn shop or a hardware store and buy a high capacity magazine weapon that could kill a lot of people and they didn't do it. The question we should be asking is...look...suicide is a tragedy. And it's a horrible thing. But 30 or 40 years ago, particularly men, and even young men, when they were suicidal, they went, and unfortunately, blew their brains out. In today's world, someone who is suicidal sits home, nurses their grievance, develops a rage, and is just a suicidal but they take 20 people with them. There's something changed in our culture. That's not a simple... "

 

[CCKazi007]

Holysh*t it does seem kinda f*cked up that one kid with TWO hand guns could injure and kill 50 people by himself in 2 hours. He obviously had good or perfect aim cuz most people can't carry more than 20 clips with them... Maybe he is a f*cking spy that the north koreans sent, they probably trained him and send him under cover to blend in, he probably killed himself so that noone could find out his real motives.

 

[wayword]

Well heck, the teachers should have at least had pepper spray - or schools could be equipped with pepper spray sprinklers or other safeguards.

The whole gun debate comes up everytime there's a shooting, but never goes anywhere...

But, there are other technological countermeasures that can still be implemented no matter what side of the gun debate you're on.

Of course, suicide shootings are impossible to stop. There is no way you can stop some guy from shooting people randomly on a street or mall. Most guys just don't do it because they have no motive and fear the consequences. But if some guy is on a suicide mission, those obviously won't stop him. He has nothing to lose and doesn't care if he gets caught. How can you stop someone like that?

 

[Delta]

I'm not saying any of the posters here would do something like this...but at the same time you guys have no idea what kind of people are reading this forum and the posts on here. People need to be more responsible about what they write here...that is the point I'm attempting to make...because someone capable of this kind of thing might be reading it.

pfffffft...

what can people POSSIBLY say or write or make movies of or video games or whatever if EVERYONE HAD TO CATER TO THE LEAST MENTALLY STABLE AMONG US?!

ugh... that's just messy thinking. life is life and expression is expression and people will deal or go nuts as they may. geez wyld, if you're gonna talk about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and NOT BLAMING (!!!) at least be self-consistent! blaming a girl for "ruining my life" is not kosher but blaming a forum for polluting someone's mind is?

it sounds like you're really into the self help movement - the whole thing about not blaming and "personal responsibility" and such... but as i say elsewhere, these are USEFUL LIES.

sometimes, there IS BLAME to go around. according the bit that i quoted from you, even you believe this. but there's more....

examples:

if you're shot by a guy as you attend class, there's no "personal responsibility" involved. if you're hit by a drunk driver, there's no "personal responsibility" involved. in both cases, there's plenty of LEGITIMATE BLAME.

but your self-help platitudes are USEFUL LIES because sometimes, staring reality in the face is paralyzing whereas a useful lie can motivate action.

don't just accept psychobabble as necessarily true or an accurate reflection of reality.

delta

 

[Rudra]

Being a conservationist and ex-military, I'm quite a shot. In fact, every weapon I would hold at the range would net me an "expert" qualification clasp for my uniform (....) Now, I'll have you know that I've been putting all 10 in a group the size of a quarter at 25 yards (...)

If nobody writes an eulogy for us, we have to write it for ourselves ...

People who are afraid of guns will cite a situation like this as a reason have "better gun control". Right. Just like we should have "better drug control"? People will get guns regardless of how easy it is, or how legal it is. And if they don't, they will make them themselves, just like drugs.

Gun control equals drug control..? WHAT? Are you sober, my man...?

That guy would have gotten ONE shot off before he had 4-5 rounds in him had free carry been the norm.

That would be the case. Only then the murder rate would not be 20 times higher than for instance the german one, but probably 200 times.

I say, prior/current military should receive automatic "free carry" approval, and regular civilians should have to attend a training course should they want to carry. Of course, all would be licensed, just as they are now. But consider the National Guard, Reservists, and Inactive Reserve: they are civilian/soldiers.

Why would you give that "free carry" approval to a group of persons, of all the others, that, after having seen action, has crossed one of the biggest lines a human can cross, the line of killing other people? Why would you give this approval to persons that with a high probability might suffer from psychical problems caused by the atrocities of war...? Imagine thousands of GIs returning from Iraq free to carry guns wherever they please... Great idea

For example, pipe bomb control. (...)

Sorry, but now you have lost it completely...

 

[bigjohnson]

See I think if there was better gun control then this would not have happened

Or if more VT students had carry permits this wouldn't happen. See, works both ways. The difference is that a highly motivated individual with violence as a goal can always get a weapon. The ease of slaughtering the victims is really the only meaningful variable here.

If I could get a gun then that would be a sad day.

Good to know.

It's not gun control...I've always lived in areas where darn near every home has guns and the crime rate is actually some of the lowest in the country. It's a societal problem, not a weapon problem. If someone is hell bent on killing mass amounts of people and can't get a gun they will just build a home made bomb instead. Adding more gun laws is like trying to stop the bleeding from a major artery with a band aid.

I mostly agree, but then the massive over-availability of weapons can't be helping. Just trying to be fair here. IF the anti-gun nuts and NRA wouldn't be so damn polarized some reasonable gun regulations could happen, but they are both so angry and afraid of each other no one can do anything useful.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

what can people POSSIBLY say or write or make movies of or video games or whatever if EVERYONE HAD TO CATER TO THE LEAST MENTALLY STABLE AMONG US?!

ugh... that's just messy thinking. life is life and expression is expression and people will deal or go nuts as they may. geez wyld, if you're gonna talk about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and NOT BLAMING (!!!)

Don't be so offended by it. Mildfire is a woman. And as a result, she blames everything on everyone else. Men, society (which in her mind is controlled by the patrarchy aka: men), and etc.

at least be self-consistent! blaming a girl for "ruining my life" is not kosher but blaming a forum for polluting someone's mind is?

Only a reasonable person would find that statement ridiculous (blaming a forum part). I'm sure most of the rational people here agree with you.

don't just accept psychobabble as necessarily true or an accurate reflection of reality.

Hate to tell you this, but you're talking to a wall. Mildfyre is notorious for posting blatant lies and personal opinion which she claims as fact. She's the 40yo female keyboard jockey here on the site.

Don't even bother with this. There's a saying that goes: You can't change peope, they can only change themselves.

Well, what you're trying to do is similar. You're trying to get this keyboard jockey to think about what you say in a more rational way. Its not happening. She is not capable of that. Don't you see that many of her posts start with "I feel" and "someone's feelings" and etc. Instead of "there is"


Best thing you can do is put her on the ignore list. She writes mostly crap anyway. Even if she feels, that she doesn't. In the end, its psychobabble and mostly lies.


Note: I said mostly crap. She makes some rational sense once in a blue moon.

 

[ricorico]

How about tazers?

 

[Vulpine]

I don't buy the stuff I'm being pitched.

Backpack full of clips?

I buy it.

This guy wasn't trained, but media portrays "organized" killing, there are books, internet... If it's your hobby, I'd imagine you could gather quite a bit of knowledge about it.

What's more, this guy wasn't "stopped", he shot himself. He could have went on killing, I'm sure. I find myself being glad he stopped with 33. I imagine with that amount planning, someone with skill in that same "fish in a barrel" would run the number up around 150. Think a minute: if the guy let off 160+ rounds...

But you have to keep in mind the environment: target rich and no resistance. And, any obsticles would have a response time: confirmation, organization, travel, location time, and there would be some stand off time, or "conflict" time. Furthermore, there would be a definite delay before anyone even had a chance to call authorities. Someone mentioned "freeze up"; people would be too busy ducking bullets to realize they all have cell phones. Then, to actually pull one out and make a call? They'd have caught a bullet before they could hit "send".

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Remember, John Galt, many of the dudes on here made fun of him, he is obviously a social reject, whose stuttering speech and small penis size have caused him the misery of not being able to seduce any hot babes in his life, teasing these types of dudes can result in this type of murder suicide which this gunman in Virginia has commited, these dudes need encouragement or else they can become so built up with anger that they eventually explode, it may seem like a bit of fun at the time to tease them, but when it results in this type of a tragedy you have to realize that it isn't good to stir them up as they are suffering enough already, think about it.

But if you think back to times not so far past, there was another guy who was attempting to make a name for himself through this site. Through multiple accounts he created a myriad of threads to 'help' fellow DJs but the underlying premise was self promotion and recognition. The guy in Virginia made a name for himself too. Though his problem can be read into a line that was in a note that was found on him, "You made me do this."

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

"You made me do this."

In a way they did. Brainwashed him into thinking that he has no responsibility or control over his actions. That everything is society's fault.

Thank you for that, feminism.

 

[wayword]

But if you think back to times not so far past, there was another guy who was attempting to make a name for himself through this site. Through multiple accounts he created a myriad of threads to 'help' fellow DJs but the underlying premise was self promotion and recognition. The guy in Virginia made a name for himself too. Though his problem can be read into a line that was in a note that was found on him, "You made me do this."

Anyone have the full note?

I heard it also "railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus."

In other words, the same basic grievances as the Columbine AFCs. Let's face it, feminism has made it tough for ALL men today...and omega males teetering on the fringe can get pushed over the edge when they feel they're stuck at the bottom for life...

I have a feeling these incidents occur more in the more feminized countries where beta/omega males can suffer very harsh marginalization, isolation and depression. And the reason why these shooters target random victims is because they are using them as a proxy for the society they feel wrongs them. It's basically micro class warfare.

It's too bad these betas didn't come here and learn some self-improvement to improve their lot in life instead of just giving up and going whacko.

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

In a way they did. Brainwashed him into thinking that he has no responsibility or control over his actions. That everything is society's fault.

Thank you for that, feminism.

Let's assume that he was brainwashed. Did he not have the capacity to use independent thought and choose an different manner to address his situation? Would you relinquish that to anyone be it man or woman? Personal accountability is a naivete of past generation so it seems.

 

[Call_Me_Daddy]

Let's assume that he was brainwashed. Did he not have the capacity to use independent thought and choose an different manner to address his situation? Would you relinquish that to anyone be it man or woman? Personal accountability is a naivete of past generation so it seems.

Please rephrase that statement. Its not registering.

 

[Vulpine]

Sorry, but now you have lost it completely...

You aren't actually using your head to think, you are using it to argue. Don't let your emotions cloud your logic.

You only had one logical argument, but it was weak: psychologically damaged soldiers.

Well, think it through. You'd give that group permits to carry because they have the most firearm training and would be the safest.

If they were psychologically affected, they'd be more likely to get a gun and shoot up the place anyway, regardless if it was legal to carry a weapon: Yes? No? Perhaps they wouldn't want to ever see a gun again? Did you think of that? Also, for every one PTSD soldier (most not even carrying weapons), there would be many that wouldn't be, like hundreds many. You omitted the fact that not every trained soldier sees combat, and those that do don't always become psychologically harmed. Essentially, the police force would multiply 10-15 fold.

 

[Juan_Man]

First and foremost, I want to say that my heart goes out to the family members and friends who lost loved ones in this senseless tragedy. Even though I am fortunate in the sense that no one close to me was killed (there is nothing really fortunate about learning about another death), this is a sad and scary situation for all of us because this event can happen anywhere at anytime. Some people may have thought this stuff ended with Columbine but they were wrong. This guy didn't have a hit list. He just went on a random killing spree leaving anyone who came in his presence in a body bag. The victims could have been one of our friends, relatives, and it could have even been us. We should all learn not to take life for granted because it can end at any time.

With that said, I must also say that if there is any better example of an AFC, it has to be the killer, who is also a victim. As soon as I learned that there was a girl involved, I thought the same exact thing that 00Kevin has expressed: If he had found this site, this probably would not have happened.

This site teaches us how to deal with the pain of being rejected, not just by girls, but by anyone. We don't look for someone to blame, rather we look for answers. How can I be more attractive? How do I get over the hurt? How can I find the right girl? How do I build my confidence? Everyone who is member of this site, including Wyldfire, has a story as to why they came here and thankfully many people were willing to listen. That's the only reason why I still post here. But the main thing this site has taught me is that life is never going to be easy and that you got to be prepared to move on when things don't work out. If the killer knew that people here have similar experiences with the pain and hurt that he obviously felt, he would have learned how to deal with it the DJ way and not try to transfer those feelings onto anyone else.

This site doesn't teach people to become angry and bitter, rather it teaches people how to recognize these feelings and how to overcome them so that these feelings don't take control over their lives. I don't really have much else to say except that to say that this site promotes violence akin to the Virginia shooting is absurd in my opinion. If anything, it prevents it by serving as a place where people can go to for help.